Hound 'culling'

[Clodagh]

Any dog, hound or not if given the right rehabilitation can lead a normal life, with exceptions of course. Its people like you, who have made your feelings clear on giving hounds a chance at life, that let humanity down.
Any right minded caring individual who, as you say dwells and deals with, handles and understands them on a daily basis, you would have though would want to try and give them more of a life than 7 years. But oh i forget its the hunting world, everything is disposable.

They really can't all do it, we have tried. See my earlier posts. I appreciate we will probably never see eye to eye on this but huntsman love their hounds and hate culling them ,and rehome the ones that will, probably to another pack.

 

[Clodagh]

You are right when you say that is what they are bred for. But you are wrong if you think that just because we humans breed a dog to do a certain job, they cannot do something else and be equally happy.

I really don't trhink hounds are happy if they can't hunt. As we live on a farm all ours spend many a happy hour hunting rabbits and out pottering about, using their noses and hunting is what they do. Like retired greyhounds that can only walk on a lead, not letting a foxhound hunt is cruel.

 

[kateandluelue]

I agree with you, except that you've missed out one vital aspect of the life of a Hound; They are bred for just one purpose, and when they're denied that, and in old age especially so, the frustration for them must be dreadful.

Alec.

Yeah our hound really struggled with sleeping on our bed with us. It was really traumatic for her.

 

[{97702}]

I really don't trhink hounds are happy if they can't hunt. As we live on a farm all ours spend many a happy hour hunting rabbits and out pottering about, using their noses and hunting is what they do. Like retired greyhounds that can only walk on a lead, not letting a foxhound hunt is cruel.

Having known many hundreds of retired greyhounds, I totally disagree with this statement. Greyhounds are - as the quote goes - the ultimate couch potato and many are not remotely bothered by being walked on a lead

I would also add that I was very surprised by a 'shock horror' media story that hit the headlines a few years ago, where there was an "expose" of a trainer who shot the unsuccessful/injured greyhounds with a bolt gun. Even as a besotted greyhound owner/lover I have no problem with that - dogs do not have ANY sense of anticipation, they are happy to the end and go up to the trainer they love wagging their tails, I can think of a lot worse ways to go...... (like being dumped with their ears cut off too remove the tattoos which will identify their owner/breeder, that's a quite common one )

 

[kateandluelue]

I really don't trhink hounds are happy if they can't hunt. As we live on a farm all ours spend many a happy hour hunting rabbits and out pottering about, using their noses and hunting is what they do. Like retired greyhounds that can only walk on a lead, not letting a foxhound hunt is cruel.

How is it any different to not letting a terrier hunt? My terriers are not at all traumatised by not going down holes and hunting. Given the right amount of exercise a dog can live a calm and balanced life

 

[kateandluelue]

I really don't trhink hounds are happy if they can't hunt. As we live on a farm all ours spend many a happy hour hunting rabbits and out pottering about, using their noses and hunting is what they do. Like retired greyhounds that can only walk on a lead, not letting a foxhound hunt is cruel.

How is it any different to not letting a terrier hunt? My terriers are not at all traumatised by not going down holes and hunting. Given the right amount of exercise a dog can live a calm and balanced life.

And what about other animals bred for a reason ie hunting horses,

 

[kateandluelue]

Having known many hundreds of retired greyhounds, I totally disagree with this statement. Greyhounds are - as the quote goes - the ultimate couch potato and many are not remotely bothered by being walked on a lead

I would also add that I was very surprised by a 'shock horror' media story that hit the headlines a few years ago, where there was an "expose" of a trainer who shot the unsuccessful/injured greyhounds with a bolt gun. Even as a besotted greyhound owner/lover I have no problem with that - dogs do not have ANY sense of anticipation, they are happy to the end and go up to the trainer they love wagging their tails, I can think of a lot worse ways to go...... (like being dumped with their ears cut off too remove the tattoos which will identify their owner/breeder, that's a quite common one )

Yep completely agree. Greyhounds are an excellent example.

 

[Clodagh]

Having known many hundreds of retired greyhounds, I totally disagree with this statement. Greyhounds are - as the quote goes - the ultimate couch potato and many are not remotely bothered by being walked on a lead

I would also add that I was very surprised by a 'shock horror' media story that hit the headlines a few years ago, where there was an "expose" of a trainer who shot the unsuccessful/injured greyhounds with a bolt gun. Even as a besotted greyhound owner/lover I have no problem with that - dogs do not have ANY sense of anticipation, they are happy to the end and go up to the trainer they love wagging their tails, I can think of a lot worse ways to go...... (like being dumped with their ears cut off too remove the tattoos which will identify their owner/breeder, that's a quite common one )

MY OH shoots his working dogs, and as you say they know nothing and they all stress at the vets so is much easier for them.
I am unconvinced by having a greyhound that could never course, I have a lurcher and her reaction at a trigger - eg. running rabbit - would have been sadly wasted if she never could run. I suppose she would cope but it is what she has been bred for generations to do. Why do labradors and golden retreivers bring sticks/slippers/socks to their owners? They are fulfilling an instinctual need.

 

[Clodagh]

How is it any different to not letting a terrier hunt? My terriers are not at all traumatised by not going down holes and hunting. Given the right amount of exercise a dog can live a calm and balanced life.

And what about other animals bred for a reason ie hunting horses,

I bet our terriers who hunt rats in the bales are happier...do yours ever go off lead? Horses are a completely different kettle of fish to dogs but have you ever seen a retired hunt horse pine?

 

[kateandluelue]

MY OH shoots his working dogs, and as you say they know nothing and they all stress at the vets so is much easier for them.
I am unconvinced by having a greyhound that could never course, I have a lurcher and her reaction at a trigger - eg. running rabbit - would have been sadly wasted if she never could run. I suppose she would cope but it is what she has been bred for generations to do. Why do labradors and golden retreivers bring sticks/slippers/socks to their owners? They are fulfilling an instinctual need.

Why not call the vet out to you so the dog doesnt have to go anywhere and experience the clinical environment?

 

[{97702}]

MY OH shoots his working dogs, and as you say they know nothing and they all stress at the vets so is much easier for them.
I am unconvinced by having a greyhound that could never course, I have a lurcher and her reaction at a trigger - eg. running rabbit - would have been sadly wasted if she never could run. I suppose she would cope but it is what she has been bred for generations to do. Why do labradors and golden retreivers bring sticks/slippers/socks to their owners? They are fulfilling an instinctual need.

Sorry but having had both, lurchers are a world apart from pure greyhounds - I will absolutely admit, if someone told me this I would be very sceptical, but having seen it in 'real life' I can confirm it is true.

I have a whippet x greyhound who is like chalk and cheese in personality to my 3 pure greyhounds - she is sharp, responsive, too intelligent for her own good, and she loves to be out and about The 3 greyhounds are just the same as all the others I've had and known - laid back, relaxing, lazy and happy with life

ETA - a good example (and I realise this is just ONE case) is my greyhound boy - he was retired at 5 1/2 so had a long career, and every day he has a walk off the lead for an absolute minimum of 30 minutes (timed to suit my old girl who is 12 1/2 and needs reduced walks nowadays....). Granted he is 9 now, but every day he trots at my heels the whole way round and shows no inclination to run at all. Out of the greyhounds I personally have adopted, I would say 90% of the pure greyhounds have been like that, Flick (my little white one) does chase Amy (the whippet x greyhound) on a walk because she adores her

 

[Clodagh]

Why not call the vet out to you so the dog doesnt have to go anywhere and experience the clinical environment?

Why get the vet? The dogs go to the vet for treatment if they need it. As you like the horse/dog comparison having had horses both shot and injected I can assure you the injection is better for us, not for them. Held, clipped, injected, versus head in a bucket? That applies to both dogs and horses.

 

[kateandluelue]

I bet our terriers who hunt rats in the bales are happier...do yours ever go off lead? Horses are a completely different kettle of fish to dogs but have you ever seen a retired hunt horse pine?

My dogs are always off the lead, there are no issues. They have a LONG walk each day and love nothing more than coming back, getting on the sofa and sleeping.

 

[Clodagh]

Sorry but having had both, lurchers are a world apart from pure greyhounds - I will absolutely admit, if someone told me this I would be very sceptical, but having seen it in 'real life' I can confirm it is true.

I have a whippet x greyhound who is like chalk and cheese in personality to my 3 pure greyhounds - she is sharp, responsive, too intelligent for her own good, and she loves to be out and about The 3 greyhounds are just the same as all the others I've had and known - laid back, relaxing, lazy and happy with life

I give you that then, I have never owned a greyhound. B-in-law had one who was very special indeed, but certainly no trouble.

 

[Clodagh]

My dogs are always off the lead, there are no issues. They have a LONG walk each day and love nothing more than coming back, getting on the sofa and sleeping.

Well I am amazed and impressed that you can walk terriers off lead and they don't hunt anything, not even mice? Even my m-in-laws border terriers like a mouse hunt. Well done anyway, I am glad they are happy.

 

[{97702}]

I give you that then, I have never owned a greyhound. B-in-law had one who was very special indeed, but certainly no trouble.

My lot are 'very special' in more ways than one

 

[kateandluelue]

Why get the vet? The dogs go to the vet for treatment if they need it. As you like the horse/dog comparison having had horses both shot and injected I can assure you the injection is better for us, not for them. Held, clipped, injected, versus head in a bucket? That applies to both dogs and horses.

Yes i agree, i have had horses both injected and shot and shot is much more humane for such a large animal. I just find it hard to understand the mentality of someone who can just shoot their dog, look into their face and shoot their loyal dog. Regardless of whether or not it needs putting down. I find it a reflection on that person really. Its one thing to shoot mans best friend, however to do it to your own dog, i find personally, something else. I t would to me be bad enough to do it to someone else's dog , whom you have no connection or bond with but your own dog.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. . Why do labradors and golden retreivers bring sticks/slippers/socks to their owners? They are fulfilling an instinctual need.

Clodagh, there are those that cannot, or will not accept your point. A point well made nonetheless.

We have a local lady of whom I'm very fond, and she has two 'retired' greyhounds. They're walked twice a day, and as many in their prison, they have not been let off their leads for at least two years. The poor creatures display stress levels which I'd have thought a blind person could see. Apparently not. The lady concerned has owned some fairly decent syndicated 'flat' horses, and the only deal that she'll sign up to is that when their racing days are over, they should be sent off to heaven. For some reason, that doesn't apply to greyhounds. Perhaps they're just a convenience to her, I'm not sure.

Alec.

 

[LD&S]

I really don't trhink hounds are happy if they can't hunt. As we live on a farm all ours spend many a happy hour hunting rabbits and out pottering about, using their noses and hunting is what they do. Like retired greyhounds that can only walk on a lead, not letting a foxhound hunt is cruel.

I have two disposable sorry retired greyhounds, they are off lead every day, I've never had a hunting dog so can't comment on their suitability as pets but greyhounds on the whole make great pets.

 

[kateandluelue]

Well I am amazed and impressed that you can walk terriers off lead and they don't hunt anything, not even mice? Even my m-in-laws border terriers like a mouse hunt. Well done anyway, I am glad they are happy.

There is little to hunt where we are as its right on the broad however if the do see rabbits or rats occasionally, they never ever catch them they give up after a 2 min chase. Very rare though that we see anything.

 

[Clodagh]

Yes i agree, i have had horses both injected and shot and shot is much more humane for such a large animal. I just find it hard to understand the mentality of someone who can just shoot their dog, look into their face and shoot their loyal dog. Regardless of whether or not it needs putting down. I find it a reflection on that person really. Its one thing to shoot mans best friend, however to do it to your own dog, i find personally, something else. I t would to me be bad enough to do it to someone else's dog , whom you have no connection or bond with but your own dog.

I think you are missing the point. The people I know, huntsmen included, do it as a final act for their dog/hound. I haven't met one that hasn't cried like a baby afterwards and been really traumatised but they have felt they owe it to the dog to do it. I couldn't, I admit, but I admire them that can step up to the plate. I hold my horses heads while they are shot, it is much the same, although I gather pulling the trigger is worse. I love my horses as much as my OH loves his dogs.

 

[Mariposa]

I would also add that I was very surprised by a 'shock horror' media story that hit the headlines a few years ago, where there was an "expose" of a trainer who shot the unsuccessful/injured greyhounds with a bolt gun. Even as a besotted greyhound owner/lover I have no problem with that - dogs do not have ANY sense of anticipation, they are happy to the end and go up to the trainer they love wagging their tails, I can think of a lot worse ways to go...... (like being dumped with their ears cut off too remove the tattoos which will identify their owner/breeder, that's a quite common one )

I agree.

My grandmother was a very successful coursing greyhound trainer and breeder, and when a greyhound's career was over, if she didn't feel it was right to be rehomed ( and most were not suitable as my mum recalls, as they were not pets), she'd take them to the local hunt, they'd think they were going on exercise, they'd be happy as they were with my granny who they adored, and someone would throw something in the hedge, they'd look over in excitement and were gone immediately. They were always shot, never injected.

Working Greyhounds, like hounds, are not pets - and not all will be suitable for a domestic life. I'm a huge dog lover and it would break my heart to shoot any of our lurchers, but they difference is they are our pets, whilst working dogs are not :/

 

[kateandluelue]

Clodagh, there are those that cannot, or will not accept your point. A point well made nonetheless.

We have a local lady of whom I'm very fond, and she has two 'retired' greyhounds. They're walked twice a day, and as many in their prison, they have not been let off their leads for at least two years. The poor creatures display stress levels which I'd have thought a blind person could see. Apparently not. The lady concerned has owned some fairly decent syndicated 'flat' horses, and the only deal that she'll sign up to is that when their racing days are over, they should be sent off to heaven. For some reason, that doesn't apply to greyhounds. Perhaps they're just a convenience to her, I'm not sure.

Alec.

I hope you never get considered 'past it', and i hope people dont use the same assessment on quality of life that you have done for hounds here tonight or you may end up with a bullet too.

 

[Clodagh]

I hope you never get considered 'past it', and i hope people dont use the same assessment on quality of life that you have done for hounds here tonight or you may end up with a bullet too.

God would you not rather have a bullet than they way a friend of mine is dying at the moment, with Parkinsons? He is 49 and if you put a dog through what he was experiencing you would go to jail. He, however, can die choking on his own saliva. I have to leave this debate now.

 

[kateandluelue]

God would you not rather have a bullet than they way a friend of mine is dying at the moment, with Parkinsons? He is 49 and if you put a dog through what he was experiencing you would go to jail. He, however, can die choking on his own saliva. I have to leave this debate now.

Im a nurse im very aware of suffering. I just find Alec's assessment on hound quality of life flawed. That was my point

I am sorry about your friend. Awful disease.

 

[LD&S]

Clodagh, there are those that cannot, or will not accept your point. A point well made nonetheless.

We have a local lady of whom I'm very fond, and she has two 'retired' greyhounds. They're walked twice a day, and as many in their prison, they have not been let off their leads for at least two years. The poor creatures display stress levels which I'd have thought a blind person could see. Apparently not. The lady concerned has owned some fairly decent syndicated 'flat' horses, and the only deal that she'll sign up to is that when their racing days are over, they should be sent off to heaven. For some reason, that doesn't apply to greyhounds. Perhaps they're just a convenience to her, I'm not sure.

Alec.

I would be interested to know what signs of stress they were displaying and can you be certain it is only because she doesn't let them off a lead when out and about. Being part of the greyhound owning population even I am amazed at how many greyhounds don't even want to be bothered to go for a walk.
Unfortunately a great number of greyhounds suffer during their racing or training lives and carry the mental and physical scars until the day they die.

 

[honetpot]

I think all dogs are at the mercy of their owners, when things go wrong its usually the dog is usually being mismanaged.
Like most working dogs hounds have been selected for the traits that make them do their job well, its an instinct that is more highly developed than a domestic pet. Managed in a hunt that instinct is channelled, now a normal home may be able to provide a channel for that instinct but the chance are it will not. Look at all the problems caused by collies and spaniels being in family home where their working instincts are not channelled.
In our village their were three pet beagles, all the owners had trouble controlling them and the one that came from working lines spent more time wandering the fen than at home.
Whether you are agree with hunting or not working dogs are often destroyed at the end of their working life, as are working horses and meat animals , its economics. Dairy farmers a cow that they have had for many years and know well will be culled, http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/when-your-favourite-cow-goes.99656/
Its how they are looked after before is the important bit.

 

[Alec Swan]

…….. I am amazed at how many greyhounds don't even want to be bothered to go for a walk. ……...

Generally the first sign of a stressed dog.

Alec.

 

[{97702}]

I would be interested to know what signs of stress they were displaying and can you be certain it is only because she doesn't let them off a lead when out and about. Being part of the greyhound owning population even I am amazed at how many greyhounds don't even want to be bothered to go for a walk.
Unfortunately a great number of greyhounds suffer during their racing or training lives and carry the mental and physical scars until the day they die.

I wouldn't bother LD&S, AlecSwan will talk total *******s about ex-racing greyhounds until the cows come home - he bases all his assumptions and the rubbish he spouts on the one person he appears to know, so of course he is a total "expert" in his own eyes.

 

[kateandluelue]

I wouldn't bother LD&S, AlecSwan will talk total *******s about ex-racing greyhounds until the cows come home - he bases all his assumptions and the rubbish he spouts on the one person he appears to know, so of course he is a total "expert" in his own eyes.

Haha brilliant! He is a dog expert you know. He confirmed it tonight with his thorough assessment of hounds and their needs. No working dog can lead a non working life. Alec 'Cesar' Swan has confirmed it.