94lunagem
Well-Known Member
OP is doing her best! Confrontation isn’t an easy thing for everyone and I imagine OP is also trying to balance getting rid vs also coping during the notice period.
It’s not always black and white.
How do I word it... is it justified... is it just a rant?
- Thread starter dominobrown
- Start date
It’s not always black and white.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
How spectacularly empathetic and understanding is this post ?
B2B not everyone is capable of being as
Goldie's mum
Well-Known Member
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Honey08
Waffled a lot!
I personally would not down yards nearby that are advertising space - it keeps it in her mind you’re serious. I would ask her in a week or so - “how’s the yard hunt going?” and mention that you’re happy to let her go early if she finds somewhere.
If the mental health line is thrown at you by her or her family tell them perhaps it’s time to think about not having a horse then? Or say surely all these people you bring up can help? If it’s continually pushed at you point out that you have been very sympathetic re this for a long time, but have things going on yourself and you can’t do it any longer. At some point (as she leaves) you should tell her it’s due to her behaviour!
If the mental health line is thrown at you by her or her family tell them perhaps it’s time to think about not having a horse then? Or say surely all these people you bring up can help? If it’s continually pushed at you point out that you have been very sympathetic re this for a long time, but have things going on yourself and you can’t do it any longer. At some point (as she leaves) you should tell her it’s due to her behaviour!
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
I actually think OP has done very well standing up for themselves and their horse whilst maintaining empathy for someone who may be experiencing difficulties themselves. The ability to do both is a rare trait.
Stick to your guns OP, you're doing really well.
Stick to your guns OP, you're doing really well.
malwhit
Well-Known Member
As a sweetener, you could say if she leaves before the deadline you will offer refund for the unused days. Only once all of her belongings including the horse have left though.
I'd be giving her weekly reminders & if she's not found somewhere sorted soon, tell her she'd better start looking as there is no way she can stay beyond the date you've told her.
I'd be giving her weekly reminders & if she's not found somewhere sorted soon, tell her she'd better start looking as there is no way she can stay beyond the date you've told her.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
I haven't taken offence at all and I get your direct tone, I don't mind! I am quite a laid back person most of the time
Don't think they haven't has multiple warnings, been told multiple time of the rules etc. Asked politely and more firmly. Weirdly we had bit of a face off abut the mouldy haylage being dumped on the fresh. I told them not to do it once politely and explained why. The 2nd I was maybe more 'snappy' and I was met with insolence.
Anywho they have just showed up to do their horse tonight with a new random person in a white van, yes it was around 10.30pm
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
At the end of the day I can empathise with people with MH problems. I have had a difficult couple of years, had my own health difficulties and family problems too. I believe we all have a lot to 'endure' or things going on.
I also have a stressful job and regulary have to put up with conflict at work. I don't want to deal with it 24/7
SpotsandBays
Well-Known Member
10:30! Can you lock your gates at say 9 and just say something like “a friend let me know that they caught somebody poking around their yard the other night so as precaution I will be locking the yard gates from 9pm from now on just to be safe”I haven't taken offence at all and I get your direct tone, I don't mind! I am quite a laid back person most of the time
Don't think they haven't has multiple warnings, been told multiple time of the rules etc. Asked politely and more firmly. Weirdly we had bit of a face off abut the mouldy haylage being dumped on the fresh. I told them not to do it once politely and explained why. The 2nd I was maybe more 'snappy' and I was met with insolence.
Anywho they have just showed up to do their horse tonight with a new random person in a white van, yes it was around 10.30pm
Dave's Mam
Well-Known Member
My yard gates lock at 10pm & you have to arrange to attend outside of gate hours as it is a family home too.
Cinnamontoast
Fais pas chier!
That’s taking the pee! Send her the contract via email saying gates will be locked by 9 because that's when you want to be able to relax of an evening with no more disturbance, this shows her you're serious.I haven't taken offence at all and I get your direct tone, I don't mind! I am quite a laid back person most of the time
Don't think they haven't has multiple warnings, been told multiple time of the rules etc. Asked politely and more firmly. Weirdly we had bit of a face off abut the mouldy haylage being dumped on the fresh. I told them not to do it once politely and explained why. The 2nd I was maybe more 'snappy' and I was met with insolence.
Anywho they have just showed up to do their horse tonight with a new random person in a white van, yes it was around 10.30pm
Time to get tough.
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
My OH was taking the dog out and checking sheeps so caught them. Either it was to avoid seeing me to come that late but if I didn’t want to leave a yard I wouldn’t try and pee them off coming so late with yet more new people, it’s like a subconscious effort to get kicked off!
little_critter
Well-Known Member
I might have mis-remembered, didn’t you say no more strangers on the yard during the notice period?
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
My gates are locked 8.30pm but everyone has gone by then. I would be concerned that things are going missing in that white van I would hate to be in your shoes, as been there before. Maybe borrow some geese from the farmer 
AmyMay
Situation normal
You’ve got to start locking your gates.
Presumably you told them when you gave them notice what the latest time was they could do their horse was.
Hope your OH gave them a right rollocking!
Presumably you told them when you gave them notice what the latest time was they could do their horse was.
Hope your OH gave them a right rollocking!
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
She needs to be told that if she breaches your rules again she has 24 hours to remove her horse and all her stuff.
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dominobrown
Well-Known Member
i think what the contract said, which interestingly enough does have yard opening and closing times (exceptions for vets and permission given for shows with prior notice) and has a clause about visitors on the yard, has been ignored so many times it’s a joke.
Again it’s just more proof how disrespectful they are at this rate I m not going to let them stay to end of the notice period… again I think the original contract has been ignored so many times it might as well be a bit of toilet paper.
I hadn’t locked up at that point because 1)I was in the bath and 2) the contractors were cutting hay etc yesterday so my OH was doing late checks later than usual.
We will see what today brings.
Again it’s just more proof how disrespectful they are at this rate I m not going to let them stay to end of the notice period… again I think the original contract has been ignored so many times it might as well be a bit of toilet paper.
I hadn’t locked up at that point because 1)I was in the bath and 2) the contractors were cutting hay etc yesterday so my OH was doing late checks later than usual.
We will see what today brings.
scats
Well-Known Member
You’ve got far more patience than me!
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Also regards confrontation… to be perfectly honest the random people they bring scare me a little. I know , I know I am being judgmental but a random bloke in a black out bmw with face tattoos etc (I have absolutely no problem with tattoos but it’s everything else, I am trying paint of picture of the “random” friends which come along) I am honestly worried about confronting them when my OH is not there. I am a lone female in the middle of nowhere when my OH is working shifts etc.
That was ridiculous to admit… it’s only when writing it down it hits how you can be afraid in your own home. And it’s easy to say “oh I would have given them a right telling”… but would you if they had a 7ft bloke who looks like they are from a gang stood behind them while you did it?
That was ridiculous to admit… it’s only when writing it down it hits how you can be afraid in your own home. And it’s easy to say “oh I would have given them a right telling”… but would you if they had a 7ft bloke who looks like they are from a gang stood behind them while you did it?
scats
Well-Known Member
Even more reason to not allow these people on when it’s getting dark. Lock the gates at 9pm and tell your livery that there is no access to the yard after 9pm so she will need to see to her horse before then.
Thats not an unreasonable request and fairly standard for most yards.
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
We have this clause drawn up by a solicitor in our agreement.
The Yard or the Owner may at any time terminate this Agreement or any part of it by giving notice to the other party of not less than one livery month notice, Starting from day of notice.
The Yard Owners reserves at their sole discretion the right to dispense with the notice period should the livery Owner materially breach any clause in this contract.
The livery period will start on the day of arrival and continue indefinitely till notice is given. If the horse owner wishes to terminate the livery agreement, the Livery owner will inform the Yard Owners, giving no less than one full livery month’s rent, which is notice of their intention.
The horse may be moved from the yard during this time, but the horse owner must pay livery up to and including the date where the notice period ends.
The Yard or the Owner may at any time terminate this Agreement or any part of it by giving notice to the other party of not less than one livery month notice, Starting from day of notice.
The Yard Owners reserves at their sole discretion the right to dispense with the notice period should the livery Owner materially breach any clause in this contract.
The livery period will start on the day of arrival and continue indefinitely till notice is given. If the horse owner wishes to terminate the livery agreement, the Livery owner will inform the Yard Owners, giving no less than one full livery month’s rent, which is notice of their intention.
The horse may be moved from the yard during this time, but the horse owner must pay livery up to and including the date where the notice period ends.
AmyMay
Situation normal
And even more reason to tell her ‘no more random people’
teacups
Well-Known Member
No they wouldn't. Most people wouldn't. It's easy to be a back seat driver, with a keyboard to hand. Personally I would be wary of being too confrontational - but at the same time you need to be firm about the fact she's going, and a polite reminder that it's your private home isn't out of order, if you feel you can...it's a difficult line to navigate imo.
Though that bloke must be a right softy if he's driving her around just to do her horse ; P <joke><then again some of the biggest blokes with tattoos & metalwork are the softest things going - image is everything>
I'd get all the numberplates saved, perhaps. And definitely spend time locking everything you have away, possibly including your horse as someone else said up thread.
Cowpony
Well-Known Member
Not sure how practical this is, but could you keep the gates locked, tell her to message you when she wants to come in, and if she has random people with her say she can come in but not the others? Might be a PITA, but it would get the message across.
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
Keep this on a professional level. Stay calm and keep thinking just as you would in any conflict situation (these aren't ladies who lunch). Are you able to isolate the electric/water to the yard? Use this tactic after, say, 6pm at night 'for financial reasons'. Do you have security cameras?
She has an entourage for some reason, you rarely see the same person twice?. I may be barking up the wrong kettle of fish here but with all the twilight activity and blacked out beamers etc have you actually checked what's being stashed in your spare stable? Again, stay calm, say you've had pest control and all the clutter needs moving ASAP because of infestation. Make everything plausible and there can't be an argument.
She has an entourage for some reason, you rarely see the same person twice?. I may be barking up the wrong kettle of fish here but with all the twilight activity and blacked out beamers etc have you actually checked what's being stashed in your spare stable? Again, stay calm, say you've had pest control and all the clutter needs moving ASAP because of infestation. Make everything plausible and there can't be an argument.
NR88
Well-Known Member
Putting up cameras is a good idea, if you don't already have them.
Amazon have some deals on eufy cameras. They can be repurposed for your own use once the livery is gone.
The eufy range on Amazon appears to range from £50 to £125. It might be worth it for peace of mind to record registration plates, vehicles and faces.
Amazon have some deals on eufy cameras. They can be repurposed for your own use once the livery is gone.
The eufy range on Amazon appears to range from £50 to £125. It might be worth it for peace of mind to record registration plates, vehicles and faces.
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Maybe remind them that they are being recorded.
LadyGascoyne
Well-Known Member
My take on that is that this would be deliberate intimidation.
I suspect she doesn’t like being told what she can and can’t do, and she is bringing up people who look intimidating to keep you in your box where she can do exactly as she pleases.
I would also suspect that these big burly men are probably told that you are unreasonably harassing her, and are persuaded to come along for ‘protection’ and because she has to go up at night to avoid you and it’s all so scary and dramatic.
She sounds like the perpetual victim type, using others to get what she wants.
Bearing that in mind, I would take control of the narrative differently, and reduce her perception of power in the relationship and her ability to leverage others to bully you.
I would stop drawing attention to the strangers being brought onto the yard because it is likely having the desired effect of knowing she is making you unhappy and/ or nervous. Because of your objections, she is also able to weave a narrative of “she is trying to make me go up there alone” which will make them more protective and validate her position.
I would swap for:
“I understand that you want to bring someone with you because you are concerned about handling your horse alone, isolated and after hours. It is something that really worries me too. Having checked with my insurance company, and for your own safety, all future visits to the yard must be conducted within the working hours in the contract. Starting tomorrow, the yard will be locked at Xpm until Xam.”
By attributing the ‘guests’ to her insecurity, and not highlighting your own (very reasonable) insecurity, you will have taken all the power out of that play. I would not bother with prohibiting guests; in the light of day and on a busier yard, the effect of the guests will be lessened regardless and she may struggle to rally support for a normal yard visit during working hours anyway. Going up alone at night plays differently, doesn’t it.
And then do lock the gate, even if it means that for a few days you have to leap up and reopen every time a tractor needs to use it. Visits will stop when you enforce it. You need to shift the balance of power in this relationship.
ETA, for the remainder of the livery period, I would adopt a ‘don’t sweat the small stuff’ approach. The hay, the using of tools, not doing things properly aren’t worth raising. Late night visits, and anything directly affecting your horses would be where I would enforce the lines, and I’d enforce them clearly.
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honetpot
Well-Known Member
I think most of us hate personal conflict and out of our way to avoid it, I have just gone out of my way to avoid it over a horse passport, because I know the person has MH issues, and TBH I just do not want the agg.
Sometimes people say I am direct, well I am for 'down south', but when you have people take the pee, its perhaps does not appear nice or friendly but if they take offence they are not worth bothering with, a couple of weeks being badmouthed and then peace, so I find it better to start as you want it to go on.
Who are you insured with, because I would be saying for an insurance review we need cameras and locked gates. There is nothing to stop you from checking the vans number plate and seeing if it has tax and MOT. If you haven't got one get a friece looking dog, we had a rottieX and no one even big men with tats would come in the yard, and we also have cameras on the gates front and back and a beam across the sheds, with an alarm.
You can go to Screwfix for cameras, and even a Ring camera is good, mine tings on the phone if something goes in the back paddock.
Sometimes people say I am direct, well I am for 'down south', but when you have people take the pee, its perhaps does not appear nice or friendly but if they take offence they are not worth bothering with, a couple of weeks being badmouthed and then peace, so I find it better to start as you want it to go on.
Who are you insured with, because I would be saying for an insurance review we need cameras and locked gates. There is nothing to stop you from checking the vans number plate and seeing if it has tax and MOT. If you haven't got one get a friece looking dog, we had a rottieX and no one even big men with tats would come in the yard, and we also have cameras on the gates front and back and a beam across the sheds, with an alarm.
You can go to Screwfix for cameras, and even a Ring camera is good, mine tings on the phone if something goes in the back paddock.
irishdraft
Well-Known Member
OP I feel so sorry for you this is an awful situation to be in just because you have a horse on livery, you should not be frightened or intimidated in your home. I have had awful liveries myself so I know how it feels but this person is taking things to a ridiculous level, I hope you can get rid by whatever means possible as soon as possible.