how do you get a horse into an outline???

[Wagtail]

Finding this thread really interesting - thanks OP for posting it.

Would be interested in CC on my boy. He's just turned 5 and these photos were taken around 2 months ago when I'd had him about 6/7 weeks.

He can feel a little heavy in the hands/on the forehand sometimes, but I'm gradually getting him to work through from behind better and come up a bit.

Excuse my position in the first picture, I was having a lesson and I was looking to see what was going on. Oh, and the saddle is not great, but my new dressage saddle has now arrived and I can put my legs where they should be.

P.S. Rhino & JFTD - let me know if you're on for Olympia and we can fix a date.

Gorgeous horse, Nikicb. I can't really fault his way of going for the stage he is at. He is tracking up well and accepting the contact. You have a tendancy to fix your hands downwards alittle, thereby breaking the line from elbow to bit (which I think is one of the most important things in acheiving a nice fluid contact) though they are better in the first photograph.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Nikicb that horse is lovely.

 

[nikicb]

Gorgeous horse, Nikicb. I can't really fault his way of going for the stage he is at. He is tracking up well and accepting the contact. You have a tendancy to fix your hands downwards alittle, thereby breaking the line from elbow to bit (which I think is one of the most important things in acheiving a nice fluid contact) though they are better in the first photograph.

Thank you.

I understand what you are saying about the hands - I'll try and work on lifting them, even though it feels a little strange. I was having one of those post test training sessions with a judge that day, and she said I needed to lift them and allow him more forwards which I think is what you are saying as well. My old mare was very sharp even in her later years so I probably got used to riding a little defensively. I'm gradually gaining confidence with him now that I know he doesn't try to whizz off with me.

 

[nikicb]

Nikicb that horse is lovely.

Thank you - I love him to pieces.

Although not quite as much when he looks like this:

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I'm going to be brave and submit Graymo as a - this is in an artificial outline - how it shouldn't be done lol!

Trot
http://www.horsephoto.co.uk/details.php?gid=1144&sgid=&pid=4614

http://www.horsephoto.co.uk/details.php?gid=1144&sgid=&pid=4642


Canter
http://www.horsephoto.co.uk/details.php?gid=1144&sgid=&pid=4633

http://www.horsephoto.co.uk/details.php?gid=1144&sgid=&pid=4606

One thing you can't deny though - he is a stunning horse Or maybe I am just biased

P.S. I should add that he is a work in progress as he used to be a racehorse and he is having his whole world restructured but please do add your thoughts.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Ooh ooh ooh, can I please play CC too?

This is my 6yr old TB X WD.

Thanks -

 

[Charlie Bucket]

ps Nikicb your horse is lush, and looks like he's going fantastically for his age. A credit to you!

 

[Dottie]

Nikicb- he is gorgeous, he lOoks like my chap. What is his breeding?

 

[xRobyn]

Some beautiful horses here!

Phil has never really been asked to work in an outline except for the last two years (he is 12! ), for the most part I try to just get him nicely forward without ducking behind the bit (something he learnt not from me ).

This is the most recent photo I have, he was coming back into work following his SI injury. I'm pretty sure he's on the forehand but that white hind was his bad one and 3 months prior he was snatching it up in walk, let alone tracking up.

Prior to injury

Forward enough

And just for laughs! (he will also do this undersaddle and in canter )

 

[Jackson]

In this photo your saddle is too far forward which will be interfering with his shoulder action. You are slumped in the saddle with rounded shoulders and stiff looking arms. You are sitting in a kind of armchair position, but it looks as though your saddle may be to blame here. Is it wide enough, as it seems to be tipping you backwards? Try sitting up taller and keeping your shoulders back but relaxed. Let your elbows hang by your waist. Hold the reins firmly. The softness in the rein should come right from your shoulders which should be free from restriction. Keep a straight line from your elbow to the bit. The most imprtant thing with a horse that isn't tracking up is to get him pushing from behind. Forget about the front end until he is powering along.

Thank you Wagtail. His saddle is an awful fit, it creeps up his withers, apart from being uncomfortable for him, it tips me back. I rarely ride in it and am saving up for a new one

I can get him going very fast, but he just gets all flat like this:

But not really working in to the bridle.. maybe that will come when I sort my arms out?..

 

[FfionWinnie]

Thank you - I love him to pieces.

Although not quite as much when he looks like this:

[/IMG]

His only flaw is the colour lol

 

[thinkitwasjune]

Can I play too? Would love some CC: 5yo ex point-to-pointer - I know he is behind the vertical and we are still struggling to find a bit he is happy in, but pics are from our first prelim test, 3 weeks after I got him. That was at the end of May, no recent pics sadly!

 

[nikicb]

ps Nikicb your horse is lush, and looks like he's going fantastically for his age. A credit to you!

Nikicb- he is gorgeous, he lOoks like my chap. What is his breeding?

Thank you both.

The credit really has to go to the lovely girl who bought him from the Gorsebridge sales as a rising 4 year old and produced him so well for a year before I bought him. I only hope I can continue his training in the same vein.

He's Connie x ISH - this is his breeding, but I really am not an expert so know nothing about any of these horses.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/ind...CONUT+SHAKE&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=

 

[showpony]

I find my mare accepts contact & works in enough of an outline for a 4yo when she is warmed up , relaxed & focused on working...
Keen to see what you all think re confirmation etc that may help towards working her in a proper outline in the future.
couple of pics best I could find. ( please excuse my brutal position in a couple - new saddle has rectified things! )

Pedhlem bit only used for show & did not over used the double reins - she is normally ridden in a simple snaffle bit )

 

[Katie__Connie]

Really like these pics, I wouldn't say he was downhill just a tad on the forehand and btv in one of the pics but overall a nice picture of horse and rider. I would be pleased if he was mine

Agree. My favourite of all the pictures posted so far

 

[Zoobie]

Funny enough in my lesson today my boy isn't very well schooled but tbh neither am I . My instructor was saying not to worry about my horse being in an outline but the fact that I had a contact was great . I did do the widening of the hands but not to my knees . Really interesting thread with some good advice .

 

[OpalFruits]

What I have been taught to do is lock my elbows to help keep the contact, obviously don't have a death grip on the reins, you still need quiet hands, and feel as though you're pushing your hips and bum to your hands so the horses head follows if that makes sense. It always helps me to imagine I'm in a bowl and I'm scooping up the side of the bowl haha sounds weird but it really helps :') You really need to exaggerate the movement

I would suggest getting an instructor though if you want to do it properly, they are worth all their money in gold if you find a good one

 

[nikicb]

What I have been taught to do is lock my elbows to help keep the contact, obviously don't have a death grip on the reins, you still need quiet hands, and feel as though you're pushing your hips and bum to your hands so the horses head follows if that makes sense. It always helps me to imagine I'm in a bowel and I'm scooping up the side of the bowel haha sounds weird but it really helps :') You really need to exaggerate the movement

I would suggest getting an instructor though if you want to do it properly, they are worth all their money in gold if you find a good one

A 'bowel' or a 'bowl'? Sorry, I don't have nice pictures in my mind.

 

[OpalFruits]

A 'bowel' or a 'bowl'? Sorry, I don't have nice pictures in my mind.

Omg i meant bowl! hahaha! Oh no!

 

[nikicb]

Omg i meant bowl! hahaha! Oh no!

 

[JFTDWS]

Omg i meant bowl! hahaha! Oh no!

The most unsavoury typo ever

 

[Kokopelli]

I can give some fab examples of a 'bad' outline:
Andy is 13 and only just being asked in the last year or so to work properlly. We've done it all without gadgets the main thing I was aiming for was when I say woah it means woah and when I say go it means go (not so much of an issue) as I wouldn't be able to bring his hind quarters underneath him until he understood this. I always give him a even soft contact to go into and I would push him into it without him going faster.

Both photos are bad as in both he is on the forehand not so much in the first. He is BTV in the second which I hate and he has a tendency to go deep when I ride like a numpty. In both photos he could be tracking up further as well but tbh I'm happy with him as before he would literally go with his ears in your face.

Would love CC on Louie though, he's 6 had a year out.

Working in a longer frame to help build topline

Both not using backend well enough (particularly bottom but I let him off as he was so weak at this stage)

2 weeks later:

Need to get my hand shigher and sit up more and hopefully he'll become lighter on forhand.

 

[Armas]

More long and low than an outline

 

[pootleperkin]

Agree. My favourite of all the pictures posted so far

Thank you Katie_Connie

Just schooled him this afternoon and OH took some video for me - judging from that, I need to work much harder on keeping my elbows in too, as instead of breaking the straight line from elbow to bit by having hands turned in or fixed down, I appear to occasionally do it by putting my elbows out instead!

Had a lesson the other day and we twigged that because his trot is so big, I have got into the habit of eliminating sitting trot from my transitions, so working on that, as without it he tends to hollow. However if I work him in sitting for too long, then he also starts to hollow on me and not go forward - probably due to me stiffening through my back and arms, so working on it in short batches. The benefit is that when I pick up rising again, he really moves forward without me having to pester He has always been slightly behind the leg ever since he had EGS and suffered from lack of energy and we had to build his muscle back from scratch.

Any tips on specific exercises to help him start to lift off the forehand and free his shoulder more, also to help him find some lengthened strides? We are doing the usual - transitions, SI, LY etc and really asking for a clear trans on lengthening - some days he does it well-ish, others he doesn't! I think perhaps getting him fitter and stronger might be the key to it all.

It's never ending isn't it, this quest for improvement and perfection!

 

[TigerTail]

What I have been taught to do is lock my elbows to help keep the contact, obviously don't have a death grip on the reins, you still need quiet hands, and feel as though you're pushing your hips and bum to your hands so the horses head follows if that makes sense. It always helps me to imagine I'm in a bowl and I'm scooping up the side of the bowl haha sounds weird but it really helps :') You really need to exaggerate the movement

I would suggest getting an instructor though if you want to do it properly, they are worth all their money in gold if you find a good one

Im really sorry but locking your elbows creates tension through your entire arm therefore you wont have soft hands and are forcing the head carriage rather than the horse having the gymnastic strength to carry himself. Also pushing with your hips and bum is essentially saddle sh***ing and depresses the horses back causing him to hollow and therefore any 'outline' you are achieving is a forced one rather than earned/given.

 

[OpalFruits]

The most unsavoury typo ever

I don't know what happened there! I'm sorry to everyone!!

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't know what happened there! I'm sorry to everyone!!

Don't apologise, it made me laugh


Armas, your pics have ruined my screen

 

[Armas]

Don't apologise, it made me laugh


Armas, your pics have ruined my screen

Sorry they have been re sized but its down to photbucket delaying the re size.

 

[showpony]

Would love some constructive critisism... Am not easily offended

I find my mare accepts contact & works in enough of an outline for a 4yo when she is warmed up , relaxed & focused on working...
Keen to see what you all think re confirmation etc that may help towards working her in a proper outline in the future.
couple of pics best I could find. ( please excuse my brutal position in a couple - new saddle has rectified things! )

Pedhlem bit only used for show & did not over used the double reins - she is normally ridden in a simple snaffle bit )

 

[OpalFruits]

Im really sorry but locking your elbows creates tension through your entire arm therefore you wont have soft hands and are forcing the head carriage rather than the horse having the gymnastic strength to carry himself. Also pushing with your hips and bum is essentially saddle sh***ing and depresses the horses back causing him to hollow and therefore any 'outline' you are achieving is a forced one rather than earned/given.

That is your opinion and I respect that but I know how I ride, if I had any tension I wouldn't do it because I don't want to hurt her mouth. As for the saddle thing, her back is checked regularly, if there was a problem, again, I'd stop.