how do you get a horse into an outline???

[mrsk29]

Thanks He's a very sweet looking horse, but he is not going to find it as easy to work correctly as some others, I don't think. His neck is set on a tad low, and is a slight ewe neck, nothing major but he may well find it difficult to 'lift' and flex, and will make him look on the forehand, even if he isn't. He's also a bit long in the back (which I personally don't mind) and in that photo a little weak through the quarters - particularly lacking in his 2nd thigh.

Fab shoulder so could well have the potential for 'big' paces - as was suggested by your first picture under saddle Lots of steady work, lots of lateral suppleness, and I think he'll be rather nice!

Sorry if that sounds bad, I like him, and I find the link between conformation and way of going absolutely fascinating There is no such thing as a horse with perfect conformation, so it is about learning how to make things easier for them.

Thanks for your input...I know he hasnt great confirmation its great to hear what others think though.. good or bad...he is very sweet bless him, He does find certain things difficult and makes riding him hard work sometimes...he is long in the back plus has big strides... currently working to squish him up a bit he is a work in progress with regards to building muscle and working correctly.. I bought him to have fun on and its worked out so much better than id hoped..hes a gem.

 

[rhino]

MrsK - sorry, previous post was for you, I didn't make it too clear! BTV/Behind the Vertical means the angle of the front of the face, you are aiming for the angle to be vertical or just in front of vertical.

HH - love the look of concentration on the first horse's face, he's really trying for you! Bit more 'lift' (though you can see his stomach muscles are working) and power from behind would have been perfection - he's not tracking up (although not all horses will, even when worked correctly) so it all looks a little 'safe'.

2nd horse - wow! Beautiful, and being ridden very nicely indeed. That is what you want for a horse at that level of schooling, trying to put them into an advanced outline at that stage is so counter productive. Bravo!

 

[mrsk29]

MrsK - sorry, previous post was for you, I didn't make it too clear! BTV/Behind the Vertical means the angle of the front of the face, you are aiming for the angle to be vertical or just in front of vertical.

Thanks great explanation

 

[rhino]

JFTD I can never be sure about Fergs, would love to see some more recent video (actually I'd love to see him in the flesh ). Lots to like in all those photos, and nothing to dislike really, just a few little tweaks which you are obviously aware of.

I somehow get the impression that he finds the work easier than he lets on, and that when you really get after him he performs much better, but I could be way out?! It's clear to see that the correct basics have been taught, that really shows through in his development this year

 

[JFTDWS]

JFTD I can never be sure about Fergs, would love to see some more recent video (actually I'd love to see him in the flesh ). Lots to like in all those photos, and nothing to dislike really, just a few little tweaks which you are obviously aware of.

I somehow get the impression that he finds the work easier than he lets on, and that when you really get after him he performs much better, but I could be way out?! It's clear to see that the correct basics have been taught, that really shows through in his development this year

Well you're always welcome Have I heard Olympia-related rumours? I may dig out some video footage tomorrow, if you promise not to judge me

Interesting, I'm never too sure whether he's holding out on me, or whether he's offering what he can. He certainly doesn't help me out at competitions, when we turn into a complete mess because I fail to ride in any way effectually He does have a convenient tendancy to "trip" over the ground when I ask for more than he's willing to offer

 

[rhino]

Well you're always welcome Have I heard Olympia-related rumours? I may dig out some video footage tomorrow, if you promise not to judge me

Olympia is a possibility, term finishes on the 21st here.

I'd love to see some more videos, it's remarkable watching his progression from last year. He's a dude, but I have a sneaky suspicion he's ready (physically at least) to handle a little more being asked of him in his flatwork

 

[JFTDWS]

Olympia is a possibility, term finishes on the 21st here.

I'd love to see some more videos, it's remarkable watching his progression from last year. He's a dude, but I have a sneaky suspicion he's ready (physically at least) to handle a little more being asked of him in his flatwork

Well if you do, it'd be lovely if you came to play, I can't offer much in the way of hospitality unfortunately, but you're more than welcome to ride any of mine or anything! I'm 40 minutes outside London

I'm trying to establish more/ better SI, collection, medium work, simple changes etc, all of which he can do nicely - when he wants to Still, new YM has offered me some lessons which may help

 

[AprilBlue]

thank you everybody for all the help on how to get a horse into an outline

AprilBlue

 

[Jackson]

Can I play?

I struggle to get Jack working properly, especially at the moment because he is so unfit

I don't really have many decent pictures, I know for a start that he finds it harder to work in the field than the school because it is very unlevel and I'm having random elbow and ankle issues in this pic

He's very forward on a looseish rein but the second you try any contact he just slows down and sticks his head in the air

I think a lot of the problem is me not sitting up straight and bringing my elbows in.
He over-tracks when he walks, but can I get him to track up when he trots? Can I heck?

ETA we do go on the other rein to But apparently this side of us is prettier to photograph!

 

[Wagtail]

Can I play?

I struggle to get Jack working properly, especially at the moment because he is so unfit

I don't really have many decent pictures, I know for a start that he finds it harder to work in the field than the school because it is very unlevel and I'm having random elbow and ankle issues in this pic

In this photo your saddle is too far forward which will be interfering with his shoulder action. You are slumped in the saddle with rounded shoulders and stiff looking arms. You are sitting in a kind of armchair position, but it looks as though your saddle may be to blame here. Is it wide enough, as it seems to be tipping you backwards? Try sitting up taller and keeping your shoulders back but relaxed. Let your elbows hang by your waist. Hold the reins firmly. The softness in the rein should come right from your shoulders which should be free from restriction. Keep a straight line from your elbow to the bit. The most imprtant thing with a horse that isn't tracking up is to get him pushing from behind. Forget about the front end until he is powering along.

 

[nikicb]

Finding this thread really interesting - thanks OP for posting it.

Would be interested in CC on my boy. He's just turned 5 and these photos were taken around 2 months ago when I'd had him about 6/7 weeks.

He can feel a little heavy in the hands/on the forehand sometimes, but I'm gradually getting him to work through from behind better and come up a bit.

Excuse my position in the first picture, I was having a lesson and I was looking to see what was going on. Oh, and the saddle is not great, but my new dressage saddle has now arrived and I can put my legs where they should be.

P.S. Rhino & JFTD - let me know if you're on for Olympia and we can fix a date.

 

[sakura]

quick question, what do people think of my mares conformation for dressage? she's a 6yro welsh D x. she's been focusing on dressage (as have I!) for about 6 months

I apologise for the stains but she's coloured

she does not work consistently in an outline, but neither do I want her too at this stage. she has moments of it and my #1 focus is getting her working nicely from behind

I know my position is not perfect (tendancy to perch and wandering elbows, plus I'm a knee griper) but I'm working very hard on it

 

[rhino]

quick question, what do people think of my mares conformation for dressage? she's a 6yro welsh D x. she's been focusing on dressage (as have I!) for about 6 months

Lovely, only trouble may be containing all the power from that @rse Possibly a tad thick through the jowl which will make a technically correct head position more difficult to achieve, but that's being very picky! Looks like she has a fair bit of muscle on the underside of her neck, but that will change enormously with correct work. Good luck with her

Niki - a really nice example of a novice outline IMO, just how I like youngsters to be working. He looks happy and confident in his work

 

[sakura]

Lovely, only trouble may be containing all the power from that @rse Possibly a tad thick through the jowl which will make a technically correct head position more difficult to achieve, but that's being very picky! Looks like she has a fair bit of muscle on the underside of her neck, but that will change enormously with correct work. Good luck with her

thanks!

yeah her backend is like a rocket, even more so in canter! she was very unbalanced when I started schooling her but she's improving all the time

she's awesome, just have to get her to focus cos for the first 4 months all she thought about was wanting jump!

 

[rhino]

thanks!

yeah her backend is like a rocket, even more so in canter! she was very unbalanced when I started schooling her but she's improving all the time

she's awesome, just have to get her to focus cos for the first 4 months all she thought about was wanting jump!

There are a couple of welsh and welsh x dressage horses on the forum, can't remember posters names off hand but definitely worth having a look at their pics and vids - think trendybraincell is one?!

Lots of on and back within the paces, keeping her soft, and try and 'sit proud' on her, if you can have a more relaxed arm position (relax shoulder, keep upper arm nearer your side "close your armpits" and keep a bend in your elbow) the whole picture would look a lot softer. Don't worry about her front end too much at the moment, it will come in time

 

[sakura]

There are a couple of welsh and welsh x dressage horses on the forum, can't remember posters names off hand but definitely worth having a look at their pics and vids - think trendybraincell is one?!

Lots of on and back within the paces, keeping her soft, and try and 'sit proud' on her, if you can have a more relaxed arm position (relax shoulder, keep upper arm nearer your side "close your armpits" and keep a bend in your elbow) the whole picture would look a lot softer. Don't worry about her front end too much at the moment, it will come in time

cool, thanks!

I aim to do a lot of transitions every time, direct and indirect. I'll focus on transitions within the pace more! she also hacks a lot to keep her enthusiastic and fit, plus we both enjoy it!

Haha I read about "closing the armpits" on this forum a while ago and it does make a real difference but my elbows I swear have a mind of their own! It's something I'll continue to set my mind at, thank you!

 

[rhino]

cool, thanks!

I aim to do a lot of transitions every time, direct and indirect. I'll focus on transitions within the pace more! she also hacks a lot to keep her enthusiastic and fit, plus we both enjoy it!

Haha I read about "closing the armpits" on this forum a while ago and it does make a real difference but my elbows I swear have a mind of their own! It's something I'll continue to set my mind at, thank you!

It's one (of many) of my horrible habits too Much as it makes me cringe, I do try and get video of my riding every so often, lots to be gained from tearing it to shreds

 

[FfionWinnie]

On a similar vein. How can you school a child's pony from the ground to go in a correct outline. Long lining?

 

[lizstuguinness]

transitions - lots of, leg and soft hands

 

[sakura]

It's one (of many) of my horrible habits too Much as it makes me cringe, I do try and get video of my riding every so often, lots to be gained from tearing it to shreds

tell me about it, it's a favourite pastime

however it's much more difficult finding a place for a phone to balance, mine always falls off right when she's going well and I end up with about 10 mins of clouds moving across the sky footage! They should invent some kinda app for that really

so I get videos as often as I can rope people in to do it!

Thanks for the advice!

 

[rhino]

On a similar vein. How can you school a child's pony from the ground to go in a correct outline. Long lining?

I normally just get on and ride - benefit of being stupidly little! Longreining done well can do brilliantly though, we have a little Welsh B at the yard who can perform all the advanced movements (and a lovely levade) on long reins

 

[FfionWinnie]

I normally just get on and ride - benefit of being stupidly little! Longreining done well can do brilliantly though, we have a little Welsh B at the yard who can perform all the advanced movements (and a lovely levade) on long reins

Ha ha. Do you want a ride on a Sec A year after next. I am just under 5ft8 lol

 

[rhino]

Don't tempt me! Had a lovely pally sec A last year to ride for a bit

He/she is one seriously cute pony!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Don't tempt me! Had a lovely pally sec A last year to ride for a bit

He/she is one seriously cute pony!

Thanks. She is a little star. Can't wait til we can back her!

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Will post some of my photos of one particular horse for discussion purposes.

14.2hh 4 year old coloured hairy!

This is NOT me riding.

 

[rhino]

Do you have permission to post the photos on here PMP? Feel a bit uncomfortable about commenting unless you do

 

[Wagtail]

Will post some of my photos of one particular horse for discussion purposes.

14.2hh 4 year old coloured hairy!

This is NOT me riding.

In the first two pictures he is over bent and lacking impulsion. However, the picture is completely different in the second two. In the last pic especially, he looks like he is moving really well, is tracking up and taking the contact nicely forward without leaning on the hands. Rider is doing something wierd with her hands in the third which is bending him to the right. I don't know if this is on purpose?

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Do you have permission to post the photos on here PMP? Feel a bit uncomfortable about commenting unless you do

yes they are my photos. Riders face has been blanked (this was done for sale advert last year).

This one IS me, riding my 6 year old gelding just back in work after 5 months off.
I realise my saddle is way too far forward, i was horrified when i saw the photos after, i dont know what i was doing when i tack him up that day!!

My boy has quite a high head carriage, often does giraffe impressions.

 

[nikicb]

Niki - a really nice example of a novice outline IMO, just how I like youngsters to be working. He looks happy and confident in his work

Thanks R. He's such a genuine, uncomplicated and lovable chap.

Anyone else?

 

[rhino]

Thanks PMP Agree with Wagtail on the little cob, but with 4 year olds you need to remember that the vast majority are unable to maintain a consistent contact, so the first photos wouldn't actually worry me much. Nice hind leg, but don't think the saddle is doing horse or rider many favours. Would be interesting to see how he has developed.

Chico is a lovely sort but I'd rather see more photos if you have them, difficult to judge much from that phase of the walk. It's just nice to see him back under saddle looking so well