How is this vet allowed to conduct themselves like this online?

[ihatework]

And today many competition horses are fed a high fibre diet and not grain. I know a number of horses that have made it round Badminton on Alfa A as a main energy and protein source.

Also now we understand how small a horse's stomach is, we know that any large bucket feed is a bad idea, and will be poorly digested. Irrespective of what time of day fed.

I dont think there is any current scientific evidence for bucket feeding at fixed times.

The thinking is now that we can feed non grain / low starch feeds immediately before and during working. And there are benefits of working on a non empty stomach.

The science does show horses produce stomach acid constantly. More in daytime than at night. And horses shouldnt be left too long without a source of forage.

I am not aware of any current nutrition research saying horses with a 24-7 access to a supply of forage should always be fed at the same time of day. And changing time by as little as an hour should be done in stages over a week. I think that is complete nonsense.

I don’t disagree, but that wasnt the point I was making.

 

[cosmic389]

From one of her comments:

Horses need checking early morning and then again in the evening, as a basic requirement, so I’m not sure why feeding at the same time every day isn’t simple? You wouldn’t check a horse at lunchtime and then not see it again until the next day, so surely easy to feed at the same time you do early morning and then evening, checks?

Well shoot me I only check my horses once a day, usually around the same time, but if I have late meetings I go at lunch or morning. And weekends can be all over the place. My horses live out 24/7 - access to grazing and ad-lib grass hay. They only get 300g-500g of hard feed (not actual grain, but legume based high-fibre pellet) depending on requirements, and times they get this can vary throughout the week. Never in 10 years had any of mine get colic or digestive issues. If I'm away my friend checks their hay and water, and they usually skip their hard feeds during that time, never been an issue.
Not everyone has the luxury to have their horses at home to check and feed at set times every day. Maybe when horses are stabled it's more complicated. Here in Australia majority keep their horses on pasture.

 

[SEL]

Mine are broadly fed at the same time every day because they fit in around work. They live out though and feed is chaff with some supplements, so no one is going to starve without it.

If I'm late they might be hanging around looking out for my car but that's just habit. If I'm really late for any reason they've usually wandered off again hunting out grass.

My last livery yard whoever was first up popped feed buckets over the doors. That could range from 5am to nearly 8 at weekends, but they all had hay and no one was stressy (& one of mine is a pig!)

 

[meleeka]

Dredging my brain bank and failing - but I do recall a detailed conversation with sciency equine performance person yonks ago -
there IS an optimum time to be feeding grain, and it’s related to the rate of digestion / blood sugars for optimum energy availability in performance horses.

But given that only relates to high performance horses (which hers aren’t at the moment and neither is the majority of her readership) and is dependant on the time the horse needs the energy (which would then vary and mean feeding not at the same time in some instances).

She is utterly delusional and bonkers.

From a feed value perspective there is no requirement for set timings.

From a psychological side, stress management, fitting in with human routine- there might be, but it is much much easier not to condition your horses to be dependent on a strict routine

I think this is probably behind her theory, but doesn't apply to 99% of horses, including her own, who are not competition horses. She loves to tell everyone that they are, but jumping 80cm once a week if they are lucky doesn't really count .

 

[Fransurrey]

Well shoot me I only check my horses once a day, usually around the same time, but if I have late meetings I go at lunch or morning. And weekends can be all over the place. My horses live out 24/7 - access to grazing and ad-lib grass hay. They only get 300g-500g of hard feed (not actual grain, but legume based high-fibre pellet) depending on requirements, and times they get this can vary throughout the week. Never in 10 years had any of mine get colic or digestive issues. If I'm away my friend checks their hay and water, and they usually skip their hard feeds during that time, never been an issue.
Not everyone has the luxury to have their horses at home to check and feed at set times every day. Maybe when horses are stabled it's more complicated. Here in Australia majority keep their horses on pasture.

Very similar to how mine are kept. 24/7 turnout (amount of grass varies according to season, with hay fed all year round accordingly). Small fibre based feed with balancer. Pasture is varied and includes hedging, wild flowers, trees and shrubs. It was a good enough routine to keep an EMS pony healthy for 11 years until his tumours took hold at the age of 27. They are checked at all times of day, depending on work timetable or other activities if it's weekend. Could be 7am, could be anything up to 9pm. They are on a yard with other horses in neighbouring fields, so an emergency would be spotted, but they simply don't have a regular feeding time (and as a result they are always off grazing when i arrive unless it's crap weather and they're in the shelter). I'll join you on the firing line. I think SV would have a severe myocardial infarction if she saw my routine (or lack of it)...

 

[slimjim86]

Well I asked "why" but I doubt I will get an answer or maybe she will just repeat in a more shouty / because I said so tone that horses should be fed at the same time each day lol

 

[Amymay Again]

From one of her comments:


Well shoot me I only check my horses once a day, usually around the same time, but if I have late meetings I go at lunch or morning. And weekends can be all over the place. My horses live out 24/7 - access to grazing and ad-lib grass hay. They only get 300g-500g of hard feed (not actual grain, but legume based high-fibre pellet) depending on requirements, and times they get this can vary throughout the week. Never in 10 years had any of mine get colic or digestive issues. If I'm away my friend checks their hay and water, and they usually skip their hard feeds during that time, never been an issue.
Not everyone has the luxury to have their horses at home to check and feed at set times every day. Maybe when horses are stabled it's more complicated. Here in Australia majority keep their horses on pasture.

My at livery horses were checked a minimum of twice a day. And always fed at the same time daily too. For me it had nothing to do with 'luxury', simply management.

Being sanctimonious about good management is never a good look

 

[slimjim86]

Well she answered but as expected didn't explain why, I asked her for the science behind it so may get kicked off soon or have a bunch of her groupies tell me I'm stupid and a really bad owner.

 

[Beausmate]

How on earth did my horses survive when I was working shifts?! Oh yeah, they didn't give a toss, as long as I fed them when I got there. Current lot don't even wait by the gate. Don't get me wrong - I love them to bits, but they do not rule my life and therefore have to fit around me. In over 20 years, I have had one mystery colic and a couple caused by overeating on stolen grass. No stable vices either, other that what the ex-racers came with, and they improved.

I have found the horses with the less regimented lifestyles are much, much less stressy.

 

[slimjim86]

She even answered the "science please" post with no explanation lol.

 

[Fjord]

She even answered the "science please" post with no explanation lol.

I don't get what she's saying about the grass not being any good for 6 months of the year. Ours js still growing and they are fed balancer to top up any missing nutrients. So as long as they have feed (grass or hay) on hand most of the time, what does poor quality grass have to do with it? Apart from the fact that mine would explode if the grass was too good!

Does she understand that lots of owners have very good doers that don't need treating like top racehorses? And that their owners have lives that get complicated so we can't stick to a rigid routine?

 

[meleeka]

For those without FB, her reply is below:

" Because 1. Horses thrive on routine. 2. Horses need checking twice a day. 3. Eating a meal is very different to hay, unless it’s a handful of chaff. 4. Not many horses truly have ad lib, clean, good quality hay. 5. You wouldn’t check a horse for the first time in the day at 10 or 11am, so breakfast should never be more than an hour late anyway.
A horse must ALWAYS be checked early morning and late evening, so I really cannot fathom why people feed at random times".

So it appears her justification isn't science based at all, but her own belief that horses thrive on routine. I don't believe that is always the case and I believe my own ponies are much happier with less of a routine. They know I arrive twice a day, but not what time, so they don't wait at the gate for me and just get on with being horses until they hear my car. I think it's more of a welfare issue to shut a horse in its stable at 3 or 4pm until 8am the next morning, but that's just my view and I wouldn't expect others to agree it that's what works for them. It's just another example of her arrogance really. Hers is the only opinion that matters and everyone else is just stupid.

 

[JenJ]

What happens if she gets an emergency call out from a client just before feeding time?

 

[Foxford]

What happens if she gets an emergency call out from a client just before feeding time?

Don't worry, she'll still have time to stop and take photos of the journey there!

 

[slimjim86]

I don't get what she's saying about the grass not being any good for 6 months of the year. Ours js still growing and they are fed balancer to top up any missing nutrients. So as long as they have feed (grass or hay) on hand most of the time, what does poor quality grass have to do with it? Apart from the fact that mine would explode if the grass was too good!

Does she understand that lots of owners have very good doers that don't need treating like top racehorses? And that their owners have lives that get complicated so we can't stick to a rigid routine?

Yep I wouldn't want lush grass all year round, we try to limit it in the summer ( still rationing now) they have hay on top 12 months of the year, obviously more in winter than summer ( when they often leave it and we throw it out), they have balancer 12 months of the year as a just in case. She's definitely not stressed, you should see the slow amble down the field she takes to meet me and get her feed, other horse isn't fazed that it's not getting hard feed, she either follows the hay barrow back down the field or wanders off to graze the grass. They know their routines - hay top up morning and evening, each owner feeds their own whatever time of day they are visiting and other horse knows its not their bucket feed time if its not their owner. Simples really

 

[Catbird]

What happens if she gets an emergency call out from a client just before feeding time?

These things don't matter when you have someone to do it for you.....

My life would be impossible (and boring!) if I had to stick to a strict routine every day, and I'm not sure my horse would be any better off - he's happy to mostly go with the flow and I'd end up creating a situation that made him stressed if it was occasionally different. It definitely wouldn't be in his best interest

And what does she think about the terrible people who only give their horse hard feed when they need to get some meds into them, and the poor horse gets nothing on all of the other days..... Just asking for a friend.....

 

[meleeka]

And what does she think about the terrible people who only give their horse hard feed when they need to get some meds into them, and the poor horse gets nothing on all of the other days..... Just asking for a friend.....

Given that a large proportion of her clients own coloured cobs, I'm not sure!

 

[Beausmate]

What do you do if you are a top (or even not) racehorse trainer, who turns the horses away for the summer? They must be going nuts out in the field, all alone with their mates, getting fat and stressing about missing meals.....

 

[Fransurrey]

What do you do if you are a top (or even not) racehorse trainer, who turns the horses away for the summer? They must be going nuts out in the field, all alone with their mates, getting fat and stressing about missing meals.....

Or the polo ponies who are roughed off at the end of the season. Quite common round here to see hairy polo ponies with no rugs in January. Nothing more than a large bale of haylage/hay dumped in the field periodically.

 

[Beausmate]

Or the polo ponies who are roughed off at the end of the season. Quite common round here to see hairy polo ponies with no rugs in January. Nothing more than a large bale of haylage/hay dumped in the field periodically.

Oh no! They must be so stressed out by doing horse things for a while

 

[Cloball]

These things don't matter when you have someone to do it for you.....

My life would be impossible (and boring!) if I had to stick to a strict routine every day, and I'm not sure my horse would be any better off - he's happy to mostly go with the flow and I'd end up creating a situation that made him stressed if it was occasionally different. It definitely wouldn't be in his best interest

And what does she think about the terrible people who only give their horse hard feed when they need to get some meds into them, and the poor horse gets nothing on all of the other days..... Just asking for a friend.....

Mine is much happier now she's out all year although she appeared 'fine' and to quite enjoy her bed last winter and getting dinner I noticed less stress behaviours when she's not expecting anything or moving in and out.

 

[Gamebird]

What happens if she gets an emergency call out from a client just before feeding time?

You see this is the bit that confuses me! As a vet who has done on call work for 25 years the one thing I am quite careful that my horses DON'T have is a strict routine. Because I know that work means I won't be able to stick to it! Tea is between 5pm and 8pm (and occasionally as late as midnight). That's what my work dictates, and no-one has died yet...

So for someone in a similar situation I am a bit of a loss about how she manages such a regimented programme . Because vet life really doesn't allow it!

 

[druid]

You see this is the bit that confuses me! As a vet who has done on call work for 25 years the one thing I am quite careful that my horses DON'T have is a strict routine. Because I know that work means I won't be able to stick to it! Tea is between 5pm and 8pm (and occasionally as late as midnight). That's what my work dictates, and no-one has died yet...

So for someone in a similar situation I am a bit of a loss about how she manages such a regimented programme . Because vet life really doesn't allow it!

Ditto, when we had horses at home. Even my dogs don't have set feed times because, well, life happens.

 

[meleeka]

You see this is the bit that confuses me! As a vet who has done on call work for 25 years the one thing I am quite careful that my horses DON'T have is a strict routine. Because I know that work means I won't be able to stick to it! Tea is between 5pm and 8pm (and occasionally as late as midnight). That's what my work dictates, and no-one has died yet...

So for someone in a similar situation I am a bit of a loss about how she manages such a regimented programme . Because vet life really doesn't allow it!

I'm guessing you don't have a couple of grooms at your disposal like SV?

I could probably manage a strict routine most of the time, but why would I want to, especially if my horses then got stressed on the odd occasion I might be late.

 

[PurpleSpots]

You see this is the bit that confuses me! As a vet who has done on call work for 25 years the one thing I am quite careful that my horses DON'T have is a strict routine. Because I know that work means I won't be able to stick to it! Tea is between 5pm and 8pm (and occasionally as late as midnight). That's what my work dictates, and no-one has died yet...

So for someone in a similar situation I am a bit of a loss about how she manages such a regimented programme . Because vet life really doesn't allow it!

(I don't think she's a vet in the same way as most others are, but shhhh, that's just between you and me .)

 

[Amymay Again]

(I don't think she's a vet in the same way as most others are, but shhhh, that's just between you and me .)

Eh?

 

[JenJ]

(I don't think she's a vet in the same way as most others are, but shhhh, that's just between you and me .)

Eh?

I'm assuming the implication was that SV is more of a part-time/'hobby' vet, who doesn't necessarily have the same demands on her time as a busy, multi-vet practice. I think. Maybe.

She's mentioned previously she has around 600 clients. How would that compare to a 'typical' multi-vet practice?

 

[JFTDWS]

But even a freelance groom paid to come and observe the holy feeding time could have a breakdown, or be ill, or… so really you need a fleet of live-in grooms with synchronised watches to get it right.

Good to know, I’ll be sure to start building grooms’ accommodation immediately.

 

[meleeka]

I'm assuming the implication was that SV is more of a part-time/'hobby' vet, who doesn't necessarily have the same demands on her time as a busy, multi-vet practice. I think. Maybe.

She's mentioned previously she has around 600 clients. How would that compare to a 'typical' multi-vet practice?

I thought she said 600 horses, rather than human clients. She managed to compete regularly and keep 5 horses fit. I think that means she's not quite as full on as other vets.

 

[cauda equina]

Did she explain how she manages the change from BST to GMT?