How long can a horse survive trapped in thicket

[ihatework]

See coming from big ditch country I think I might think that!

I guess because even the yard I mention has a couple of people who would make it their business to know everyone else's business. A horse could easily be in a ditch there but I can't see it going unnoticed.

Feeling pedantic tonight then! It was a turn of phrase, there may/may not be ditches in the vicinity. I fear you are trying your hardest not to understand!

I can see perfectly well how it can happen.
I can't see how it would ever happen to one of mine because I like to think I'd choose better establishments for them to live in

 

[KrujaaLass]

IHatework. I love you. You have explained it much better than I have. Perhaps they will give it a rest now

 

[KrujaaLass]

If something happened to you how would they know, Ester

 

[KrujaaLass]

Why is my writing style difficult to understand. It is in English Ester

 

[Goldenstar]

Goldenstar so what would you do then . Walk round field looking at horses or see to your own horses. Defeats the object of me having my own horses. Would not have time for them. Yes I am not best person to check horses but was at that time. No one else bothered

I spent ten years as a welfare officer often stuck all day going into the evening in the dark and cold trying to help some poor horse while my own horses stood in field waiting to come in .
And yes I got calls had to leave for the day and my horses did not get ridden I know what I am talking about .
But I repeat ( not sure why I am bothering ) it's the person talking the money who is at fault and the owner because unless his treatment rendered him unable to talk he ought to made a plan however perhaps he knew people would be unwilling to help .
I come to realise things like this and cases like Thor ( another thread )will be better prevented by strict licensing and that will lead to closure of many yards .
It's this risk that's meant licensing has been shied away from ,every way it was looked at it was going to cause a reduction in livery places of all types except the most expensive .
Invisible horses there are just too many of them something will have to give soon.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Goldenstar. Don't bother replying then. You obviously have a low opinion of me. It was your choice to be a welfare officer . You must have known what it entailed. Not my choice by the way. The pony that was stuck was section c 8 years old. She should be put to sleep then. When you are ill sometimes it's your animals that keep you going. As for people being unhelpful. What are you on about. He knows full well that we would have helped if we had known.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Oh forgot to add I was PDSA animal ambulance driver in my youth so I know what it's like to be called out at night. Picking up some poor dog off the railway line.

 

[WandaMare]

Blimey there's some people on this forum who would argue anything, its not good. Leave the OP alone, she did the right thing and does her best for horses like most of the rest of us, no need for any more 'you should of done this' or 'you should have done that' thanks, it gets very boring.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Your sound very bitter but sorry I can not imagine having horses in a field were I did not mentally note who was where every time I went in .
I also can't imagine being unable to check the horses of a sick fellow livery provided I was physically able to get to the yard myself and I am not a person blessed with perfect health .
My experiance of livery yards is people do look out for each other but that's based on friends who run them and friends who keep their horses on them . I don't have my own horses on livery .

Agree wholeheartedly, and physically I'm at a level of health where if I was a horse they'd shoot me.

 

[KrujaaLass]

I'm glad you agree with Goldenstar. Happy for you to spend your morning trapsing round a mud ridden field.perhaps you can do it together. Saying how great you are looking for non missing horses. Kitten did you not read post. We did not know he was in hospital

 

[Tiddlypom]

Wow, OP, I'm sorry for the lashing that you're getting on this thread.

Is every DIY livery expected to stomp round a large boggy field everyday to check other liveries horses, on the off chance that the owners are unexpectedly sick and haven't made arrangements for their animals to be cared for?

The OP noticed that something was awry, so went and investigated and rescued the horse. Somehow she is still getting grief for not doing enough despite being in not the best health and fitness herself.

Jeepers.

 

[ester]

Feeling pedantic tonight then! It was a turn of phrase, there may/may not be ditches in the vicinity. I fear you are trying your hardest not to understand!

I can see perfectly well how it can happen.
I can't see how it would ever happen to one of mine because I like to think I'd choose better establishments for them to live in

Not intentionally pedantic, t just made me think given that we had the fire brigade out to retrieve one a couple of weeks ago and having been brought up with that and being sent round the edges of fields for sheep on a daily basis actually one of my first thoughts would be **** I hope they aren't in a ditch. Obviously I don't know if I would be the same in different areas but with a tree lined field the boundary was certainly checked regularly. That was all, nothing more

Sorry for not understanding and asking for clarification and getting confused with the multiple horses being discussed. I struggle with communication, story of my life so no need to fear that I am 'trying my hardest not to' I can promise you that is absolutely not the case.

I

Why is my writing style difficult to understand. It is in English Ester

There are a lot of short sentences and no commas so it is hard to tell what is connected to what and you weren't using quotes or names to reply to people so it wasn't easy to see which person you are trying to make a point to.

If something happened to you how would they know, Ester

Because they see me every day, twice a day at least, my YO lives on site and observant as are the other liveries, if he were in the field everyone goes out and poo picks daily so all areas of the fields covered. But then my fellow liveries also noticed when my Guinea pigs had run out of water one day and resolved that for them so I suspect I have a very different yard experience. I wouldn't call it a perfect world though just people on a yard taking an interest in others and keeping an eye out for horse welfare.

I guess because your yard sounds so far beyond my experiences of DIY yards that is why I struggled to understand what the situation was and how it could have occurred, that was why I was asking questions to try and understand why and how.

Those saying that he OP has been lambasted I think this is more the YO/person taking the money no? Or am I missing something. I am certainly just pleased the OP did go hunting for the horse but struggle not to think it shouldn't have gotten to the point that no one knows how many days a horse has been stuck for.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Yes. I can't believe it. I only asked how long a horse might survive. Last time I posted about 18 months ago about Essex police having a pony shot on the side of the 404 people said I was lying because I did not have many posts although I had been a member for over 10 years. Luckily someone posted and confirmed it they saw it covered up. I won't do it anymore just answer anything if can be of help. There are some sanctimonious people on here

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester. Is your horse on a yard? This horse was not in a yard,it is in a field away from the yard. Silly me,not putting in commas you would think I would know better having GCE s in English and Literature. I do take an interest in others, but cannot justify walking round field everyday. I have other animals that need my attention.

 

[ester]

Depends on the time of year. sometimes out 24/7 in a field 10 mins walk from the yard, approx 10 liveries total.

I only answered your question about why I was finding your writing style difficult, please don't have a go at me for just responding to your question.

Again very few if anyone has said that you should have been the one walking the field every day.

 

[honetpot]

Your sound very bitter but sorry I can not imagine having horses in a field were I did not mentally note who was where every time I went in .
I also can't imagine being unable to check the horses of a sick fellow livery provided I was physically able to get to the yard myself and I am not a person blessed with perfect health .
My experiance of livery yards is people do look out for each other but that's based on friends who run them and friends who keep their horses on them . I don't have my own horses on livery .

I have been on a couple of large livery yards and most people would have the sense to do the head count, even it was only for being nosy, followed by' why is that horse stood like that? That's odd'. Even my then fourteen year old daughter spotted that there was something wrong with another liveries horse.
I think the best response would be how do we stop this happening again, and if you are not sure who is coming when have a yard check list that people sign when they 'do' there horse and someone allocated to check them after a certain time, a list of contact numbers and charge them a fee if they are not checked and someone has to tramp through the mud.
I am very grateful my neighbour who has no livestock when she phones me to check they are OK, the last time was yesterday , when the water trough was spraying water. The livery who didn't tell me my horse was unwell when I was at work I got rid of pretty sharpish.
You could say thank god it was just a horse, if it had been a person face planted in the mud, and knocked out they could easily be dead. We can not be responsible for everything or everyone, but you should be risk/welfare aware. I can not imagine wanting to be anywhere where no one cares about anyone else's horse

 

[KrujaaLass]

Think yourself lucky then that 10 liveries check their horses everyday when turned out and know when you have been there. Oh how the horse world would be a better place if everyone was a diligent horse owner, but sadly everyone is different.

 

[ester]

I'm not sure it is just luck, I picked the yard and yard owner very carefully and also moved house to be able to use it, my friends think me mad for moving from a nice 2 bed to a shoebox in order to use the yard . We are lucky at my Mum's (separate county) because the paddock has houses on 2 sides which means the horse's can't even have a nap in the sun too long before someone worries about them, that was definitely just luck.

But the trouble is that I guess the sort of person who doesn't tell anyone/think they need to tell anyone that they are going into hospital etc maybe doesn't worry about that too much, I hope he has cover at the new field/yard he is taking them to. I'm glad he thanked you for helping, I'd think some chocs were in order too!

 

[KrujaaLass]

Honeypot. I am here and that's it. Although I have sense I cannot do a headcount because you cannot see all of the field. It is large undulating and has little nooks and crannies. I cannot tell people what to do. People do not come to the field. Did you not read the post. They don't come so no point in doing a check list.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester I have been on this yard since I was 12 years old. It had different management untill a while ago. I also moved house to be near my horses. I rented a field, but it was not the same as having people around. I have access to a country park with no road work at all. This means everything to me . I do not want my daughter and granddaughter riding on roads ever again. They are too dangerous

 

[KrujaaLass]

Ester I have been on this yard since I was 12 years old. It had different management untill a while ago. I also moved house to be near my horses. I rented a field, but it was not the same as having people around. I have access to a country park with no road work at all. This means everything to me . I do not want my daughter and granddaughter riding on roads ever again. They are too dangerous

 

[thatsmygirl]

Totally agree with you op.
The field next to mine also has horses in, I never check them as its not my responsibility, like the other liveries aren't your responsibility, even if I had other horses in my field, it's a big field and mine come to call, so I wouldn't be walking the field to check on them unless Iv been asked it or LIKE YOU I see something not quite right! In your case this horse wasn't with the other one it normally is so alarm bells ring. I'm busy and quite frankly the other liveries aren't my concern, I'm not walking big fields to check other horses not under my care.
Think some people need to stop being harsh. Yes you can cast a eye over any horses seen which I do and rung a owner before as 1 was down with colic but I won't go out my way to check horses, would be at yard all day else

 

[KrujaaLass]

Thanks a voice of reason. Mine come to call with some others so I do look at them but don't handle them and go over them because I don't want to handle other people's horses. Over the years I have told a few people of a sick or injured horse. Saying that we did take one up to the yard which had a bad head njury

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

My experience of large yards is most of the time people are in their own bubble. Nobody notices if somebody else's horse is missing/ill/stood in one spot permanently or anything else. The amount I've rescued caught up in their rugs or told their owners (who are busy chatting on the yard) that their horse doesn't look right, is crazy. On DIY yards there is often no staff and the YO may or may not live on site or keep an eye out when they're at the yard.

I've been on several yards with around 10 horses living out in the field, so at least 7 or 8 owners, and I'm the only one breaking ice on the trough in winter daily because others are just getting theirs in from the gate up the top, not walking down to check the trough ever. It happens. Similar things with skinny horses who never get fed, ones who wear the same rug all winter until it falls off and the rug is then left where it fell in the field, because some owners only come up to pay their livery or for the vet/farrier.

Likewise with injured horses I don't "lend" first aid items because they're never replaced. If the owner of such a horse decides to turn it out and see how it is tomorrow instead of going to the shop for their own first aid supplies or calling a vet, that's not my problem, it's their horse and they can do what they like with it whether I agree or not. Or people who want a phone call to let them know their horse is last in the field, I always say I won't be doing that. I spend £10 phone credit every 3 months because I hardly use it, that's £40/yr, I'm not going to start spending £10 a week/£520 per year because of lazy owners who can't be bothered to get their act together to meet their individual horses needs.

I could give plenty more examples but I'll stop there. All this doesn't mean I don't care, it's just I'm not made of money and don't have a limitless amount of time and energy to spend up the yard. I'm at the yard to do my own horse not to watch over every waif and stray that has a careless owner. I do feel for the horses but I can't spend all my time sorting out other people's problems, there would be no time left for me to enjoy my own horse. You might wonder why I've stayed on yards like that, but if I'm happy there and my own horse is getting looked after by me, then I don't have a problem with the yard/YO myself so why would I leave? There are lots of bad owners out there happy to let a horse fend for itself if it's out 24/7 and lots of YOs happy to take their money and let it happen.

It's not the OPs fault this horse was left. It could be said to be the YOs fault for running the type of yard they run, but if the horses live out in a field away from the yard how is the YO going to know if someone comes daily to check each horse or not? I don't think we should live in a nanny state with only full livery available just because there are some bad owners who don't check on their horses enough. It would be nice if YOs checked all the horses on their land daily but they'd want to charge for it, rightly so, and that would make some liveries go elsewhere where they don't have to pay for a service they don't want, whether they're the type of person to check their own horses or not. I don't think there's any real solution to the sort of problem in the opening post, but KrujaaLass did what they could for a horse that isn't theirs.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Summer Pudding. I have just seen your reply. I did phone them but the voice Mail was full. At moment he's still paying livery and the weather is mild. So I'll just wait and see.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Well said Sugar and Spice

 

[honetpot]

Honeypot. I am here and that's it. Although I have sense I cannot do a headcount because you cannot see all of the field. It is large undulating and has little nooks and crannies. I cannot tell people what to do. People do not come to the field. Did you not read the post. They don't come so no point in doing a check list.

Read the post. As I said I would not want to be anywhere like that and I have been on a large yard run by a farmer, who took the money and had no interest in anything else. Everyone looked out for everyone else. I am sorry your yard is like that, it may not be your fault, but it doesn't make it right, in my opinion.
As I said I got rid of the livery who could not be bothered. As a YO when I check my animals I would check any others that were there at the same time. When I am not there I pay someone else to check them.

I live out in the sticks, I cultivate the few neighbours I have and we look out for each other, but I did that when I lived in a cul-del-sac in a village. If someone hears a noise, or see something strange we text each other, I automatically look at my neighbours sheep when I drive past to see they are OK.
What I can not understand is the outcry about Thor the emaciated TB and people linking how that happened to not being aware of or not caring how other people look after their animals. Everyone is so happy to shout about ponies tied at the side of the road, but not bothered at about ones that may be suffering right under their noses.

 

[KrujaaLass]

Honeypot. What do you suggest I do. I am not the Yard Owner. I pay my livery I keep my mouth shut. I have five horses that I would have to relocate, which would not be easy. I live across the road I don't want to move house. Think yourself lucky you are a Y O who can set the rules. If I started blabbing about rules and regulations I would be told where to go. Think about it. We don't all live in your perfect worlds. My horses are well cared for and healthy. We don't compete. We are happy hackers which we can do from the farm I am at. No road work. Which is a Godsend to me. We don't have flash horse boxes either to transport to off road riding.
Welcome to my world. Oh no I forgot you and your kind are too sanctimonious to be in my world. If I was to do a headcount how do I know that a livery has not put another horse down there. That would counteract if one was missing. How do I know if one has been taken from the field. I am not in the know of everyone's movements nor they of mine. Yes and these liveries are going to pay for someone checking their horse. Have you tried getting money out of some people

 

[Goldenstar]

My experience of large yards is most of the time people are in their own bubble. Nobody notices if somebody else's horse is missing/ill/stood in one spot permanently or anything else. The amount I've rescued caught up in their rugs or told their owners (who are busy chatting on the yard) that their horse doesn't look right, is crazy. On DIY yards there is often no staff and the YO may or may not live on site or keep an eye out when they're at the yard.

I've been on several yards with around 10 horses living out in the field, so at least 7 or 8 owners, and I'm the only one breaking ice on the trough in winter daily because others are just getting theirs in from the gate up the top, not walking down to check the trough ever. It happens. Similar things with skinny horses who never get fed, ones who wear the same rug all winter until it falls off and the rug is then left where it fell in the field, because some owners only come up to pay their livery or for the vet/farrier.

Likewise with injured horses I don't "lend" first aid items because they're never replaced. If the owner of such a horse decides to turn it out and see how it is tomorrow instead of going to the shop for their own first aid supplies or calling a vet, that's not my problem, it's their horse and they can do what they like with it whether I agree or not. Or people who want a phone call to let them know their horse is last in the field, I always say I won't be doing that. I spend £10 phone credit every 3 months because I hardly use it, that's £40/yr, I'm not going to start spending £10 a week/£520 per year because of lazy owners who can't be bothered to get their act together to meet their individual horses needs.

I could give plenty more examples but I'll stop there. All this doesn't mean I don't care, it's just I'm not made of money and don't have a limitless amount of time and energy to spend up the yard. I'm at the yard to do my own horse not to watch over every waif and stray that has a careless owner. I do feel for the horses but I can't spend all my time sorting out other people's problems, there would be no time left for me to enjoy my own horse. You might wonder why I've stayed on yards like that, but if I'm happy there and my own horse is getting looked after by me, then I don't have a problem with the yard/YO myself so why would I leave? There are lots of bad owners out there happy to let a horse fend for itself if it's out 24/7 and lots of YOs happy to take their money and let it happen.

It's not the OPs fault this horse was left. It could be said to be the YOs fault for running the type of yard they run, but if the horses live out in a field away from the yard how is the YO going to know if someone comes daily to check each horse or not? I don't think we should live in a nanny state with only full livery available just because there are some bad owners who don't check on their horses enough. It would be nice if YOs checked all the horses on their land daily but they'd want to charge for it, rightly so, and that would make some liveries go elsewhere where they don't have to pay for a service they don't want, whether they're the type of person to check their own horses or not. I don't think there's any real solution to the sort of problem in the opening post, but KrujaaLass did what they could for a horse that isn't theirs.

The point is I begin to think that these badly run places should not exist .
The authorities have backed off licensing for a long time .
If a landowner is renting grazing to lots of people then they should have systems in place an owner ( and this is the owners fault )should never go off without making arrangements .I know he is ill but it's not a situation were he had a car crash and could not talk .
The field fencing ought allow a horse to get into a dangerous thicket ( unless the horse jumped ) and that's down to the landowner and also people who are prepared to keep their horses in and pay for places with inadequate fencing .
If OP chooses to call people who these sorts of situation have been allowed to run on to long and the number of horse who are being kept in bad quality livery is too high and that it's now causing mayor problems to some of the horses who suffer in silence in such yards are sanctimonious then that her pergroative .
But this situation is not good enough it's a disgrace in the fourth richest country in the world .
If we need to have a strict licensing system ( like riding schools ) and then horse owners report premises in their area were they know there are under the radar liveries then it might be a price worth paying .
But where will all the homeless horses go that is the huge issue because a mayor drive to improve srtandards will cause a contraction in spaces .

 

[popsdosh]

Under the law as it stands the YO would have joint responsibility under a duty of care something a lot of YOs
conveniently forget about or are unaware of.