How much is 'Meat' money?

[Wagtail]

I was surprised when we had our last dog PTS that the insurance would not pay for the euthanasia, even though it was on strictly humane grounds. (Dog in absolute agony with brain tumor). My last horse to be PTS was not insured so we paid for it ourselves but wondered do horse insurance cover euthanasia? I thought it very odd that the dog insurance did not.

 

[rhino]

I was surprised when we had our last dog PTS that the insurance would not pay for the euthanasia, even though it was on strictly humane grounds. (Dog in absolute agony with brain tumor). My last horse to be PTS was not insured so we paid for it ourselves but wondered do horse insurance cover euthanasia? I thought it very odd that the dog insurance did not.

They should, if it comes under the regulations for immediate destruction on humane grounds. Anything less urgent should be checked out with the insurance company pre pts.

Worth checking the small print to be sure though, I only know of some of the more well known companies.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Am just trying to sort out PTS at present (so not of help to the OP, but may be to others at some point)

For those who want to know the costings of PTS, as they currently are here in NW Surrey:

Seems vet is £136.70 for injection, plus poss sedative if required 1st, then plus visit (around £50) then add VAT to total. They will give details of their removal firms if I wish, for collection.

Local (nice man, who I know) knackerman is £175 inc vat with or without bullet to collect. He is same price whether he despatches or just collects.

Going to place away from yard for despatch is not an option as far as I am concerned in this instance, we do it at home

 

[Jesstickle]

Am just trying to sort out PTS at present (so not of help to the OP, but may be to others at some point)

I am very sorry to hear this TFF Hope you are ok.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I am very sorry to hear this TFF Hope you are ok.

umm, awaiting vet to call later this afternoon with final bloods results. Unfortunately little Fuzzy looks fine on the outside, its whats happening on the inside thats not good
Fingers xx'd vet & I are wrong

Thx x

 

[Jesstickle]

umm, awaiting vet to call later this afternoon with final bloods results. Unfortunately little Fuzzy looks fine on the outside, its whats happening on the inside thats not good
Fingers xx'd vet & I are wrong

Thx x

Blooming heck. I will cross my fingers and toes for you too. Just in case that makes a difference.

 

[*hic*]

I would go for being shot. My friends horse was kicked in field, broke its leg, vet came administered injection, checked horse and left, tractor came to drag the horse from field, only then it was found to still be alive and tried to get back up, vet took another hour to return and the poor girl at the time was 14!!!!

This can also happen with the bullet.

Not if the horse is bled out it can't!

 

[*hic*]

I totally agree with this.

Horses know what abbatoirs are. There's a local one off a bridle path we hack out on. The horses *always* get disturbed and agitated when they have to go past it.

They're more likely reacting to your feelings on it. We have sheep killed at home and they are then split and hung in one of two adjoining stables separated by a three foot high wall. My Section A will quite happily take herself into the stable if she sees the door open, on one occasion we hadn't even cleaned the floor and she was walking through pools of gore. The other horses haven't managed to get in there for a snout about but will all have a look in and are in no way worried about the deaths occurring or the bodies afterwards.

I have travelled my big mare to a competition with a dead sheep in the stall next to her to drop off at the hunt on the way. The kennelman was most confused because he thought I'd brought the mare over to be shot She didn't care either about the sheep next to her nor the fairly ripe smell from the charnel house.

The last pony I took to the hunt went on the hoof, done up to the nines with full travel gear on, coincidentally the kennels are in the same place where she did her first PC rally twenty years earlier. She loaded herself on the lorry, full of excitement at finally being taken out to another show, she unloaded fine, we told her she was looking great and to be a good girl, the kennelman came and introduced himself to her, she was at no point stressed by the surroundings or the smell whilst he went and got her a bucket of feed, we handed the lead rope over to him, she walked happily with him round the corner to just outside the door of the charnel house and then there was a bang and a minute or so later the kennelman brought the headcollar back to us.

Don't believe all you hear about animals being upset by slaughter, none of mine are at all bothered. I will happily travel whichever of mine can still travel to the hunt for them to do the job. However mine are all used to travelling and would not find that part of it stressful at all.

 

[cptrayes]

The only difference is the injected ones are sedated first so they tend to just drop slowly and the ones that are shot have more reflexes after its done so they tend to scramble about a bit with their legs once down as they shut down.

This depends on the vet. The one I held recently for a friend was not sedated. The vet said that it just causes them more upset to be injected twice and to feel the loss of control under sedation.

Injected ones also twitch for some time. One last year twitched for a couple of minutes. This year's one's eyes were blinking for a good five minutes and the vet kept on checking her heart was stopped as he could not understand why she still looked conscious.

 

[forestfantasy]

I couldnt understand any vet injecting twice for sedation then pts - the ones I've seen always use a cannula (sp?)

 

[Tinseltoes]

What a sad and morbid post this has turned out to be.Sigh!!!!!!

 

[cptrayes]

I couldnt understand any vet injecting twice for sedation then pts - the ones I've seen always use a cannula (sp?)

It's two hefty lots of fluid to go into the cannula and sedated or not, they feel the second one going in, you can see it. The vet this year preferred for the horse to have just one injection into the cannula to stop its heart and not put it through the feeling of loss of control that some horses panic at and fight, and some overcome and then have so much adrenalin that they don't die as quickly as they should from the lethal syringe full. The owner stated clearly that she would prefer the horse to be sedated and he told her that he would not do it.

 

[cptrayes]

What a sad and morbid post this has turned out to be.Sigh!!!!!!

I don't feel it's that morbid, but it is a fact of horse owning life. We live, usually, longer than they do and I do think every owner needs to face facts if they want to keep a horse. For myself, I would rather know about what will happen than go into it blindly, like I had to the first time when forums like this weren't around.

 

[Holly Hocks]

It's two hefty lots of fluid to go into the cannula and sedated or not, they feel the second one going in, you can see it. The vet this year preferred for the horse to have just one injection into the cannula to stop its heart and not put it through the feeling of loss of control that some horses panic at and fight, and some overcome and then have so much adrenalin that they don't die as quickly as they should from the lethal syringe full. The owner stated clearly that she would prefer the horse to be sedated and he told her that he would not do it.

That's really strange. When Rebel was PTS my vet gave him a very small injection in his stable - I'm not sure what that was - possibly a muscle relaxant?
We then led him up to the patch of grass at the top of the yard where she sedated him - again only a tiny injection. Then when he was completely out of it, snoring and bottom lip hanging, I left him with the farmer holding him as I didn't feel that I could stay. So we went into a barn and within a minute, the vet came and told us he had gone. We went back to see him and he had already been covered with a tarpaulin, so it must have been really really quick. She said that he had dropped instantly and while I know she may just have been telling me to make me feel better, the farmer had also told a couple of my friends on the yard that he had never seen an animal go so instantly.
I don't think my vet would do it WITHOUT sedation!!

 

[Aoibhin]

i have looked into meat costs for a good freind for her 4 darling old horses because her & the Oh are divorcing he is listing them as assets so she has got meat prices for them which is all they are worth. not many would buy a 31yo arthritic fell, a 19yo unridable TB(broke pelvis), 26yo blind arab & or an evil welsh mountain beastie thats 19yo & still unhandalble to everyone exept her (& god knows we have tried)

its not always the obvoius reasons behind questions.

 

[RoobyDoobs]

What a sad and morbid post this has turned out to be.Sigh!!!!!!

I so agree! I know what the thread is, I know I have to face this situation one day as my boy will be with me for life, and I know it's going to upset me reading all the comments, but I can't help myself... So sat here blubbing

 

[Tinseltoes]

I so agree! I know what the thread is, I know I have to face this situation one day as my boy will be with me for life, and I know it's going to upset me reading all the comments, but I can't help myself... So sat here blubbing

My cobblet is still young at 9 (10 in may). Section A same age and both are with me for life.When the time comes for PTS it will be by injection.Hopefully they will both have a long life.

 

[Ibblebibble]

What a sad and morbid post this has turned out to be.Sigh!!!!!!

Oh but HHO does love a good PTS thread even though that wasn't what the OP was asking for!!

 

[RoobyDoobs]

My cobblet is still young at 9 (10 in may). Section A same age and both are with me for life.When the time comes for PTS it will be by injection.Hopefully they will both have a long life.

My beautiful boy is 15 this year and I hope it's a very long time before I need to make this decision for him. Whatever I do then will depend on the circumstances, and it will be whichever is the kindest way for him, not me. It will be at home... and I will be with him to the end. I owe him that.

 

[brigantia]

They're more likely reacting to your feelings on it. We have sheep killed at home and they are then split and hung in one of two adjoining stables separated by a three foot high wall. My Section A will quite happily take herself into the stable if she sees the door open, on one occasion we hadn't even cleaned the floor and she was walking through pools of gore. The other horses haven't managed to get in there for a snout about but will all have a look in and are in no way worried about the deaths occurring or the bodies afterwards.

I have travelled my big mare to a competition with a dead sheep in the stall next to her to drop off at the hunt on the way. The kennelman was most confused because he thought I'd brought the mare over to be shot She didn't care either about the sheep next to her nor the fairly ripe smell from the charnel house.

The last pony I took to the hunt went on the hoof, done up to the nines with full travel gear on, coincidentally the kennels are in the same place where she did her first PC rally twenty years earlier. She loaded herself on the lorry, full of excitement at finally being taken out to another show, she unloaded fine, we told her she was looking great and to be a good girl, the kennelman came and introduced himself to her, she was at no point stressed by the surroundings or the smell whilst he went and got her a bucket of feed, we handed the lead rope over to him, she walked happily with him round the corner to just outside the door of the charnel house and then there was a bang and a minute or so later the kennelman brought the headcollar back to us.

Don't believe all you hear about animals being upset by slaughter, none of mine are at all bothered. I will happily travel whichever of mine can still travel to the hunt for them to do the job. However mine are all used to travelling and would not find that part of it stressful at all.

Actually, no. My horse reacted that way before I even knew what that building was. Other people's horses I've been out with react that way, also. It appears to have nothing to do with the rider's sensibilities or opinions on slaughter.

 

[forestfantasy]

That's really strange. When Rebel was PTS my vet gave him a very small injection in his stable - I'm not sure what that was - possibly a muscle relaxant?
We then led him up to the patch of grass at the top of the yard where she sedated him - again only a tiny injection. Then when he was completely out of it, snoring and bottom lip hanging, I left him with the farmer holding him as I didn't feel that I could stay. So we went into a barn and within a minute, the vet came and told us he had gone. We went back to see him and he had already been covered with a tarpaulin, so it must have been really really quick. She said that he had dropped instantly and while I know she may just have been telling me to make me feel better, the farmer had also told a couple of my friends on the yard that he had never seen an animal go so instantly.
I don't think my vet would do it WITHOUT sedation!!

This is my experience too. With 2 seperate vets.
I don't think my vets would do it without sedation & i certainly wouldn't let him without it.
Both the ones i have seen went very quickly & peacefully - based on this mine will be pts by injection.
There are horror stories either way but i will base my decision on my experiences - not other peoples

 

[Wagtail]

Actually, no. My horse reacted that way before I even knew what that building was. Other people's horses I've been out with react that way, also. It appears to have nothing to do with the rider's sensibilities or opinions on slaughter.

I agree. Animals know what a slaughter house is. And not just the horses either. It is not so much the blood as the smell of fear. The pheromones released by frightened animals and the noise.

 

[Wagtail]

They're more likely reacting to your feelings on it. We have sheep killed at home and they are then split and hung in one of two adjoining stables separated by a three foot high wall. My Section A will quite happily take herself into the stable if she sees the door open, on one occasion we hadn't even cleaned the floor and she was walking through pools of gore. The other horses haven't managed to get in there for a snout about but will all have a look in and are in no way worried about the deaths occurring or the bodies afterwards.

I have travelled my big mare to a competition with a dead sheep in the stall next to her to drop off at the hunt on the way. The kennelman was most confused because he thought I'd brought the mare over to be shot She didn't care either about the sheep next to her nor the fairly ripe smell from the charnel house.

The last pony I took to the hunt went on the hoof, done up to the nines with full travel gear on, coincidentally the kennels are in the same place where she did her first PC rally twenty years earlier. She loaded herself on the lorry, full of excitement at finally being taken out to another show, she unloaded fine, we told her she was looking great and to be a good girl, the kennelman came and introduced himself to her, she was at no point stressed by the surroundings or the smell whilst he went and got her a bucket of feed, we handed the lead rope over to him, she walked happily with him round the corner to just outside the door of the charnel house and then there was a bang and a minute or so later the kennelman brought the headcollar back to us.

Don't believe all you hear about animals being upset by slaughter, none of mine are at all bothered. I will happily travel whichever of mine can still travel to the hunt for them to do the job. However mine are all used to travelling and would not find that part of it stressful at all.

There is a big difference between having animals slaughtered at home or taking them somewhere with familiar smells than taking them to the slaughter house. I believe that horses react to the pheromones released by frightened animals and the noise, rather than the blood.

 

[unbalanced]

There is a big difference between having animals slaughtered at home or taking them somewhere with familiar smells than taking them to the slaughter house. I believe that horses react to the pheromones released by frightened animals and the noise, rather than the blood.

That would make sense. My friend had her old mare shot at home and after the body was taken away she took her gelding (actually that mare's son) across where there was still blood to the field. He is the spookiest horse and if there had been anything to get upset about he would have done but he walked over it as if it were water.

My friend's horse was PTS by injection within sight of my mare. She was curious about what was happening and definitely knew it was unusual (tried to pull over there from where she was tied up being groomed on the far side of the yard). However she was more interested the way she would be interested in the feed shed or something going on in another field, rather than spooked or upset as she wasn't sensing stress from the other horse.

 

[paisley]

I agree. Animals know what a slaughter house is. And not just the horses either. It is not so much the blood as the smell of fear. The pheromones released by frightened animals and the noise.

I'm not going to disagree that horses are aware of pheromones/noise, although I would rather suspect if pigs were being slaughtered, it would have something to do with it (we lived near a pig farm, how well your horse behaved on a hack depended on which way the wind was blowing some days!)

But I've had to go to an equine abattoir on a regular basis, and as much some will always be convinced that it is horribly stressful environment for the horses, I do not feel this is the case. The horses wait in a barn, in pens, munching on hay and generally looking calm. I've seen far more unhappy horses at competitions. The stressed ones are usually young, clearly been out in a field up till then and probably just experienced their first lorry travel, so stress is not surprising.

I would never ever send mine to an abattoir, but I would understand if thats the choice for someone else

 

[Tormenta]

I'm not going to disagree that horses are aware of pheromones/noise, although I would rather suspect if pigs were being slaughtered, it would have something to do with it (we lived near a pig farm, how well your horse behaved on a hack depended on which way the wind was blowing some days!)

But I've had to go to an equine abattoir on a regular basis, and as much some will always be convinced that it is horribly stressful environment for the horses, I do not feel this is the case. The horses wait in a barn, in pens, munching on hay and generally looking calm. I've seen far more unhappy horses at competitions. The stressed ones are usually young, clearly been out in a field up till then and probably just experienced their first lorry travel, so stress is not surprising.

I would never ever send mine to an abattoir, but I would understand if thats the choice for someone else

I agree with you. With horses I think it really depends on their character and history. I have a gelding who is scared of strange men, he visibly stresses if someone unusual arrives (his past) although he is a good traveller I could not begin to imagine the stress he would go through at a mart or an abattoir holding, he really is a worrier. I have a mare who gets upset if I go on holiday, my last holiday was 3 years ago after I returned to an extremely stressed mare and a stressed person who was caring for her, within 48 hours she was calm and back to her usual routine. However, I have a mare at the moment who I swear could not give two hoots where she is as long as she is provided for. I feel quite sad for her because she seems 'shut down' to any emotion, not the first horse I have come across in that frame if mind, survival is their bare option, no attachment.

I am in no way saying anything derogatory about horses who go to the Hunt yard, I am more than sure that most of them go with pricked ears and excitement in their brain.

 

[natalia]

Our horses all know the kennels well as most of them hunt, we often meet there and they are well used to it. The flesh house is right in the the middle with a big bin outside (bit revolting) none of the horses have ever even snorted at it if we ride through the yard. It's also go other horses looking out the doors and the sound of the hounds, which if they have hunted, sets their blood going. It's not a bad place and certainly not a bad end.