Reginald
Well-Known Member
Aaar, you've gone all shy on us. Why don't you go and introduce yourself to the lovely ladies in the soapbox forum? I'm sure you'll get a nice reception.
hunt sabs, animal lovers?????????
- Thread starter winterhorse
- Start date
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
Not shy Reggie just wondering what the Isle of wight has to do with the proce of lamb.
Does it have a nuclear power station?
Does it have a nuclear power station?
JessDoesItBetter
Well-Known Member
LMFAO!!!
Foxes don't need a nateral preditor to keep the population down, If the numbers get too high then they will run out of nateral recorces due to the competition for space, food etc and after that the numbers will fall, nature is capable of regulating itself.
Rubbish that hunts like a "healthy" number of foxes, they just enjoy hunting -it's fun!- and as i've said, i don't think it's justifyable enjoyment if it comes at the cost of a life for no good reason.
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
LOL thanks JessDoesItBetter, I was impressed even with myself for that one :smirk:
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
"nature is capable of regulating itself" And the number #1 natural sustainable way that it regulates itself? Through predation. Populations increasing in size so they run out of food and then dieing en masse is a sympton of an eco system that is completely out of balance.
'Rubbish that hunts like a "healthy" number of foxes' Is it? I'd have thought that when they go out that is precisely what they want to find so they can have a good days hunting.
'Rubbish that hunts like a "healthy" number of foxes' Is it? I'd have thought that when they go out that is precisely what they want to find so they can have a good days hunting.
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
Rats are a different animal to foxes though.
We keep down our rats by hunting them with cats and dogs. It's a great method!
Reginald
Well-Known Member
"Rats are a different animal to foxes though."
You're very observant!!!
You're very observant!!!
soggy
Well-Known Member
You cant fault that logic. All though the usual suspects will undoubtedly try.
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
I really don't get the antis logic on this.
Hunting causes less suffering to fewer animals and gives more pleasure to more people.
Hunting causes less suffering to fewer animals and gives more pleasure to more people.
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
Why do people get pleasure from killing something?
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine that it's the Hunting that gives them pleasure rather than pure killing. In this day and age you hardly need to go out with a pack of hounds to kill something. There are much more efficient ways to do it. Ones which 'antis' prefer like shooting foxes. These are more efficient because you can kill more animals for less effort. They also cause more suffering to foxes.
That's :
More dead foxes, more killing, more suffering - all LEGAL
Less dead foxes, less killing, less suffering - ILLEGAL
That's :
More dead foxes, more killing, more suffering - all LEGAL
Less dead foxes, less killing, less suffering - ILLEGAL
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
Whats wrong with my english, even if i spelt things wrong or didnt use the correct grammer im sure you got the jist!
No need for personal attacks reginald!
And as a matter of fact i did get an A* in gcse english. No gonk pencil required!
No need for personal attacks reginald!
And as a matter of fact i did get an A* in gcse english. No gonk pencil required!
Nickijem
Well-Known Member
The argument about a hunt sustaining a healthy population of foxes surely has its answer inthe last few centuries of the fox population. There has, as far as I know, always been a healthy fox population and coincidently (or not imo) there has been fox hunting.
I do wonder what will happen if there is no population control, I particularly wonder about the sick and injured foxes that are routinely eliminated by the hunt - will they now be able to go on and breed more and more unhealthy foxes by passing on weak genes?
The fox population was at a healthy level up until the ban so if it ain't broke why did we need to fix it?!
I do wonder what will happen if there is no population control, I particularly wonder about the sick and injured foxes that are routinely eliminated by the hunt - will they now be able to go on and breed more and more unhealthy foxes by passing on weak genes?
The fox population was at a healthy level up until the ban so if it ain't broke why did we need to fix it?!
Eagle_day
Well-Known Member
"Why do people get pleasure from killing something?"
People like eating meat when an animal has died.
People like hunting when an animal may die.
What's the difference?
People like eating meat when an animal has died.
People like hunting when an animal may die.
What's the difference?
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
Maybe, but look where foxes are hunted alot, the foxes you see out lamping are far healthier than in areas they aren't hunted hard.
Reginald
Well-Known Member
At last, an honest hunter.
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
skiddaw_lad, you may be pro but at least you're telling the truth - fox hunting has nothing to do with helping out the population (which would sort itself out if it got out of hand) or "picking off" sick or injured foxes. People just do it because they like killing foxes.
And Eagle_day, yes you're right some people do. I don't eat meat either though and therefore that argument has nothing to do with my point
And Eagle_day, yes you're right some people do. I don't eat meat either though and therefore that argument has nothing to do with my point
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
"I don't eat meat either though and therefore that argument has nothing to do with my point "
It has a lot to do with your point. You choose not to eat meat, fair enough however I assume you don't support a law banning everybody from eating meat on the basis that you have moral problems with it.
That is however the situation with hunting.
It has a lot to do with your point. You choose not to eat meat, fair enough however I assume you don't support a law banning everybody from eating meat on the basis that you have moral problems with it.
That is however the situation with hunting.
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
As much as I'd love everyone to stop eating meat I know it'll never happen and there are far more people who eat meat than go foxhunting. I would be happier with the meat industry if I knew the animals definitely didn't suffer when they were raised, transported and eventually slaughtered.
The same goes for foxhunting. If I knew the animal went through the very bare minimum of suffering then I would still disagree with the practice but would be less vocal about my opposition. But I know that this is not the case with either industries. Plus this thread is about foxhunting. If you'd like to open up another one about us damn vegetarians being a nuisance to society then feel free and I'll have my tuppence worth in there too
The same goes for foxhunting. If I knew the animal went through the very bare minimum of suffering then I would still disagree with the practice but would be less vocal about my opposition. But I know that this is not the case with either industries. Plus this thread is about foxhunting. If you'd like to open up another one about us damn vegetarians being a nuisance to society then feel free and I'll have my tuppence worth in there too
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
lol I'm not the slightest bit against vegetarians.
Do you think hunted foxes suffer more than ones that are shot and merely wounded?
Do you think hunted foxes suffer more than ones that are shot and merely wounded?
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
Yes I do think that they suffer by being chased and terrified by the army of dogs, horses and people chasing them.
The definition of a farm animal suffering is an increase in stress and therefore cortisol in it's system and this is a well used indicator of bad transport and slaughtering practice, so why then is it considered fine and "humane" to hunt the fox in such a way as to cause huge amounts of stress? Surely if it was shot by a skilled marksman on first sighting it would be kinder to the animal?
The definition of a farm animal suffering is an increase in stress and therefore cortisol in it's system and this is a well used indicator of bad transport and slaughtering practice, so why then is it considered fine and "humane" to hunt the fox in such a way as to cause huge amounts of stress? Surely if it was shot by a skilled marksman on first sighting it would be kinder to the animal?
JessDoesItBetter
Well-Known Member
I know for a fact that a professional games keeper has a good shot and can quite often kill a fox pretty swiftly, the only problem with shooting is that it isn't difficult for anyone to get a gun and it's the "anyones" that have a bad shot and end up merely wounding a fox. I think there should be made more difficult for anyone to get a gun.
However if a fox gets away from the hunt it can often die from exhaustion later or go into hiding and die from hypothermia, neither of which aren't particularly pleasent ways to die.
I'm not against the killing of animals because animals don't have the same level of conciousness as human beings and therefore death isn't the same to them as it is to us, however i do believe that animals have rights and that any killing should be made as humain as possible (which is why i'm also a veggi because the slaughter of animals is no longer as humain as it once was due to overseas transportation) and i'm sorry but hunting with hounds is not the most humain way to kill a fox. It has only been accepted for so long because it's a middle class pass time. If it was a bunch of working class youths from a council estate contributing to pest controle on their mopeds then it would be considered by all to be barbarric, but to some it is more acceptable because it's middle class folk riding accross the countryside on horse back. (and before i'm accused of being a working class "townie" i again would like to remind you that i'm acctually a fairly middle class country person)
However if a fox gets away from the hunt it can often die from exhaustion later or go into hiding and die from hypothermia, neither of which aren't particularly pleasent ways to die.
I'm not against the killing of animals because animals don't have the same level of conciousness as human beings and therefore death isn't the same to them as it is to us, however i do believe that animals have rights and that any killing should be made as humain as possible (which is why i'm also a veggi because the slaughter of animals is no longer as humain as it once was due to overseas transportation) and i'm sorry but hunting with hounds is not the most humain way to kill a fox. It has only been accepted for so long because it's a middle class pass time. If it was a bunch of working class youths from a council estate contributing to pest controle on their mopeds then it would be considered by all to be barbarric, but to some it is more acceptable because it's middle class folk riding accross the countryside on horse back. (and before i'm accused of being a working class "townie" i again would like to remind you that i'm acctually a fairly middle class country person)
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
Lol JessDoesItBetter, don't you find it funny that anyone who's against hunting was branded a townie earlier in this thread?
I find it quite ironic, having been born and brought up in and around the countryside with a father who used to shoot and hunt and fish. Just because you live in the countryside doesn't mean you HAVE to be a pro. Just as anyone who lives in a town isn't necessarily an anti.
Just my little dig at soggy there cos he seems to think that's the way things are
I find it quite ironic, having been born and brought up in and around the countryside with a father who used to shoot and hunt and fish. Just because you live in the countryside doesn't mean you HAVE to be a pro. Just as anyone who lives in a town isn't necessarily an anti.
Just my little dig at soggy there cos he seems to think that's the way things are
JessDoesItBetter
Well-Known Member
yep i completely agree! hit the nail on the head with regards to soggy as well!! lol
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
I asked you which one you feel suffers more? Not whether they suffer at all.
On a second point seeing as shooting kills and wounds so many more foxes which foxes do you think suffer more:
a) the 80,000 or so foxes that escape the hunt.
b) the 80,000 or so foxes that get shot or wounded by guns.
On a second point seeing as shooting kills and wounds so many more foxes which foxes do you think suffer more:
a) the 80,000 or so foxes that escape the hunt.
b) the 80,000 or so foxes that get shot or wounded by guns.
faerie666
Well-Known Member
LOL, I find it quite funny how you and JessDoesItBetter are complaining about being stereotyped as "townies", yet Jess just said in her last post that all people who hunt are Middle Class.
I'm most certainly not Middle Class, I wish I was as then I wouldn't have to work every hour of every bloody day to be able to afford my horse. :crazy:
I'm most certainly not Middle Class, I wish I was as then I wouldn't have to work every hour of every bloody day to be able to afford my horse. :crazy:
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
I do love replying to these things just to see what he comes out with next. So very entertaining! Although as all of us vegetarians are "boring" I suppose I should really get back to doing boring vegetarian things rather than allowing myself the frivolity of reading this thread.
Oh if only I ate meat, my life would just be filled to the brim with more interesting things to do!!
Oh if only I ate meat, my life would just be filled to the brim with more interesting things to do!!
faerie666
Well-Known Member
Actually, I don't eat meat either, but I hunt.
Bobcats_Livid_Issue
Well-Known Member
With respect tegoz you maybe relying but you most certainly are not answering the questions.
u04elw2
Well-Known Member
Faerie, I think she was more having a bit of a dig at Soggy_Bottom_Boys who seems convinced that anyone who is against hunting is living in a tower block somewhere in the centre of London rather than being a wellies and wax jacket country type such as himself. Just having a bit of a laugh at his expense.