Hunting is in a spot of bother

Tiddlypom

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This is so pointless. That fox living in that yard and will have had regular habits. All it needed was for someone to sit, probably at night, and wait for it and shoot it. Those people were definitely enjoying hunting it for the sake of it.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the fox hadn't been specifically encouraged to live on the farm, all the while with the later intention of getting the hunt onto it.

Hopefully there is enough incriminating footage there to secure a conviction(s).
 

suestowford

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If you have facebook you might want to take a look at the post from Jamaica Inn, on the subject of hunt meets at the pub. It seems the local hunt have upset the landlord by inviting in the Beaufort. Now there will be no more hunt meets at the pub.
Hunts in Cornwall seem to be particularly talented at shooting themselves in the foot.

https://www.facebook.com/JamaicaInnCornwall
 

ycbm

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So is the Beaufort one of the known offenders?
I think they self define by accepting an invitation from a pack which is. The Beaufort is the hunt based around the Badminton estate. I've been out with them as a guest in the distant past.
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ycbm

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On the subject of hunting, and eventually all blood sports, dying out, we've noticed that the new Duke of Devonshire, who owns Chatsworth (in Derbyshire, but go figure) has not shot the moors between Macclesfield and Buxton since he inherited in 2019. Is he against blood sports, seeing the writing on the wall for blood sports, or is something else going on? Anyone know?
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Tiddlypom

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Looks like the Jamaica Inn was prepared, under some sufferance, to host a small meet of the local hunt. Local hunt in its wisdom decides to invite one of the largest and best known packs in the country to gate crash the meet. Permission from hostelry understandably revoked.

https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/c...UEGtRJWJ9uDK2udwXNK2Tz0FiiboTTYYRMlcrCtvQmZ9Q

The Jamaica Inn's statement reads: "In the past the Inn’s position on hunting has always been clear – not supported other than to allow hunts to start from the inn because of the one hundred year tradition of doing so. It was something the current owner, Allen Jackson, was not comfortable breaking as he saw himself as a ‘temporary custodian’ and not for him to make such a decision. He has never personally hunted or even shot before.

"However, last Saturday the local hunt invited the Beaufort Hunt to join their usual modest gathering which the owner sees as extremely ill advised. Taking this fully into account and the passionate views of some of the inn’s customers the owner has decided to no longer allow any future hunt at Jamaica Inn."
 

Wishfilly

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So is the Beaufort one of the known offenders?
In my head they were involved with some previous prosecutions, but google isn't turning up much.

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountr...shire-hunt-accused-of-illegally-killing-foxes This is recent, though, and I believe a member of hunt staff has been charged over it (yet to stand trial?)

This https://www.itv.com/news/2021-10-08/secret-filming-shows-hunting-hounds-being-shot-dead-at-kennels (note there's a video of a man shooting dogs at this link, it's doesn't autoplay) though technically legal means a lot of people are not keen on the Beaufort hunt.

There was a campaign by one of the monitoring organisations in Cornwall around this, and I think a lot of people contacted the landlord to express their views.

I think the local population in Cornwall has changed a lot in even the last 10 years, and people are not so tolerant of hunts absolutely running roughshod over everyone else and openly disregarding the law (before someone says there hasn't been a successful prosecution of the hunts for hunting fox, I mean people locally will happily admit they hunt fox with hounds). I think the hunts locally will need to get with the times quickly or they will have incredibly limited land to meet on.
 

Clodagh

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I think it’s a shame that the landlord bowed to an organised anti hate fest. I do see it is entirely up to him. It seems unlikely or ill advised that the local hunt didn’t check he was ok with more people to start with.
 

Wishfilly

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I think it’s a shame that the landlord bowed to an organised anti hate fest. I do see it is entirely up to him. It seems unlikely or ill advised that the local hunt didn’t check he was ok with more people to start with.
I don't think that's entirely fair- I think it's more the case that certain hunts in Cornwall have run through people's patience by hunting in residential areas, causing disruption on roads which are already pretty dangerous, allegedly trespassing, chasing and in some cases killing pets, and generally just not accepting how the county has changed even in the last 10 years. There are a lot more cars on the roads now, there are a lot of houses springing up everywhere, and a lot of the people who live here now are what might be called "incomers".

TBF to the East Cornwall (which I believe was the hunt hosting the Beaufort) most/all of the poor behaviour I am aware of doesn't relate to them. But over the last couple of seasons, I think some of the hunts have lost a LOT of the land they used to hunt on. It just doesn't make the news because "Farmer refuses Western Hunt permission to use his land" isn't that exciting! Whereas the tenuous Royal connection, and the famous Pub make this a bit more newsworthy.

I do think "antis" obviously made people aware that the Beaufort were there, but the impression I get is that a lot of people who contacted the inn aren't associated with any anti hunting organisations. Ultimately, I think the landlord was worried about losing business over this, and that has to be his first priority.
 

ycbm

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I think it’s a shame that the landlord bowed to an organised anti hate fest. I do see it is entirely up to him. It seems unlikely or ill advised that the local hunt didn’t check he was ok with more people to start with.

I don't tonk that's fair either. Even as a drag hunter I was very aware of how my excited, boisterous, noisy and numorous fellow hunters upset regulars by the mass invasion of their local pub before and after the meet.
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Tiddlypom

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-60761938

"Owner Allen Jackson said after the hunts (East Cornwall and Beaufort) met on Saturday "hundreds and hundreds of people, seemingly reasonable and rational, were telling us they were anti the hunt".

"These were not extreme views but reasonable views," he said.

"We have always lost money because some people won't come here because of the association with hunts. There are no pluses, all we get is minuses. They never spent any money here - they never came in.

"The hunting fraternity want to make it seem we have been browbeaten and bullied into this decision but it is nothing like that whatsoever."
 

ycbm

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New Forest Hounds have announced they are switching to a bloodhound pack. All current fox hounds have been placed in other packs or retirement with supporters.

It seems that the good legal hunts have realised that the only way to distance themselves from the packs hunting illegally is to change the breed of dog.

I congratulate them on their decisive action and wish them a very happy hunting future.
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It seems that the good legal hunts have realised that the only way to distance themselves from the packs hunting illegally is to change the breed of dog.

I congratulate them on their decisive action and wish them a very happy hunting future.
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In part I agree, there does need to be some wholesale change and respect to public perception and the law, however equally I would hate to see the fox hounds extinct. My personal view is trail hunting in untenable long term and drag hunting is the way forward to keep the fox hound tradition moving with the current climate. I hunted pre ban and have been a trail layer but I equally respect that not everyone tows the line but also have witnessed personally some pretty questionable behaviour from both sides ( I have had antis watch my trail line, see the hounds follow it and still make violent threats towards me, but equally I’ve seen supporters make unnecessary aggressive comments towards peaceful monitors). At some point there needs to be a common ground/respect that the hunts doing the right thing are monitored peacefully and hunt supporters allow the peaceful monitoring.
 

Wishfilly

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In part I agree, there does need to be some wholesale change and respect to public perception and the law, however equally I would hate to see the fox hounds extinct. My personal view is trail hunting in untenable long term and drag hunting is the way forward to keep the fox hound tradition moving with the current climate. I hunted pre ban and have been a trail layer but I equally respect that not everyone tows the line but also have witnessed personally some pretty questionable behaviour from both sides ( I have had antis watch my trail line, see the hounds follow it and still make violent threats towards me, but equally I’ve seen supporters make unnecessary aggressive comments towards peaceful monitors). At some point there needs to be a common ground/respect that the hunts doing the right thing are monitored peacefully and hunt supporters allow the peaceful monitoring.
There are plenty of breeds of dog which no longer have a working use who have not gone extinct. I don't think anyone wants to see foxhounds as a breed become extinct. Many people do manage to give good lives to breeds of dog who traditionally hunted in some way without them actively being involved in hunting.

FWIW, a hunt local to me sometimes nominally has trail layers out, but they still sometimes also have hounds behave in a way that is dangerous to members of the public or their pets. (This is not just my opinion, a member of hunt staff was actually prosecuted for having the hounds dangerously out of control in a residential area last year) So I don't think just having trail layers present means a hunt is doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think it's hunts like this who let everyone down and cause problems for all hunts/all hunts in the local area.

Increasingly, we're seeing local landowners refusing the hunt access to their land due to some pretty major incidents in the 2020/21 season, which could equally cause the death of trail hunting.

If the law was clear, and only drag hunting was allowed, and those breaking the law were actively prosecuted, I think it would help. But I also think hunts have to consider changing land use in some areas, and if all hunts are still viable and have enough suitable land to safely operate, particularly when this land needs to be shared with other members of the public.
 

Sandstone1

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I do not think Otter hounds are extinct. Hunting otter has been illegal for some time. There are show foxhounds, there are beagles and quite a few other breeds of dog that were originally breed for hunting or killing things that are now kept as pets.
Banning hunting does not mean a breed of dog will go extinct.
 

GSD Woman

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I do not think Otter hounds are extinct. Hunting otter has been illegal for some time. There are show foxhounds, there are beagles and quite a few other breeds of dog that were originally breed for hunting or killing things that are now kept as pets
Are Otterhounds not extremely rare in the UK? They are in the US. I attended an all breed and obedience show that was also the National Specialty for Otterhounds. There were maybe 30 from around the country.
 

suestowford

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Otterhounds have been used to hunt mink, but now I don't suppose that happens.
Here's a pack of otterhounds parading at Dunster Country Fair back in 2004. I thought they looked quite nice until I got near enough to smell them!
otterhounds.jpg
 

littleshetland

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Somebody in our village acquired an Otterhound to keep as a pet! She was only young and the whole episode was a complete disaster. Although completely benign and friendly she more or less completely destroyed their house, appeared to be totally untrainable (in a very friendly 'nice but dim' kind of way) and blimey....did she smell! They ended up rehoming her.
 

Clodagh

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Somebody in our village acquired an Otterhound to keep as a pet! She was only young and the whole episode was a complete disaster. Although completely benign and friendly she more or less completely destroyed their house, appeared to be totally untrainable (in a very friendly 'nice but dim' kind of way) and blimey....did she smell! They ended up rehoming her.
Hounds are bred to live and work in packs. They often struggle in a conventional set up.
 

Tiddlypom

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Bit more about that from The Hunting Office.

https://thehuntingoffice.org.uk/news


Update from the MFHA Chairman
Hunting is both the most extraordinary and frustrating of activities. Whether running a day’s hunting, a hunt or the Masters of Foxhounds Association (and I have now done all three) nothing ever seems to be straightforward, but when things do work out the results make all the pain of delivering them rapidly fade away. Very few things can equal the glory of a wonderful pack of hounds taking their line across country, but we must not forget either the key role that hunts play in the management of the countryside and the life of rural communities.
That is why, despite the huge challenges that have faced hunting over the years, we have always fought to retain its essence. And that is also why hunting has adapted to address the existential threats that it has faced whether it was the coming of the railways, the invention of barbed wire, or the Hunting Act, all of which were seen by some as ‘the end’ of hunting. That is also why, despite the challenges it faces at the moment, I am certain that hunting can adapt to meet the changing demands of society and the modern countryside and that it has a bright future.
The most urgent challenge facing us is perception that not all hunting activity is legitimate and that not all hunts are operating to the highest standards. That perception could in future lead to further legislation restricting trail hunting and other use of hounds, and it is also having a practical impact right now on hunting’s relationship with institutional and private landowners, the police and politicians. It is clear that we need a change in the way hunting is run to give all stakeholders confidence that we are operating legitimately.
To that end we have carried out a consultation with members and a review. It has been suggested and widely accepted that the hunting associations should step back from the overall governance and supervision of hunting. Instead, we are aiming to have two separate organisations.
Firstly, a single inclusive new body to undertake governance of all hunting activities. This Governing Body will be responsible for setting the standards and rules to which all members and member hunts must adhere.
Secondly, a separate Regulatory Authority to administer all regulation and disciplinary matters for members and member hunts, according to the rules set by the Governing Body.
Membership of the Governing Body will be inclusive and representative of the whole hunting community and all associations ,all hunts, huntsmen and kennel huntsmen will be invited to join. Hunts, huntsmen and kennel huntsmen will be assessed and accredited to validate the high standards of hunting activities in the field and animal welfare in hunt kennels.
This is not a new idea. A detailed plan to create an Independent Supervisory Authority for Hunting was developed in the 1990s in the face of the political challenges hunting faced then. That proposal was overtaken by the Hunting Act but the principle was kept alive, not least by the late Brian Fanshawe my predecessor as master and huntsman of the Cottesmore Hounds who was a tireless promoter of high standards and credible regulation.
We are currently updating that model to fit with the demands of post-ban hunting and predominantly the regulation of trail hunting. The principles are clear; hunts must not only operate to the highest standards both in kennels and in the field, but they must be able to show that they are doing so. This may sound complicated and bureaucratic but, in reality, it need be neither; we cannot realistically argue that we need to be tested before we drive a car or accredited to use a chainsaw, whilst just allowing anyone to take a pack of hounds out into the countryside. Our reputation relies on every one of us upholding high standards and we simply cannot leave that to chance any longer. Our mantra must be that ‘nothing less than excellent is acceptable’.
Importantly, correcting the perception of hunting will not only ease the immediate challenges facing us. It will also create an opportunity to promote hunting and the good it does in the countryside. With our colleagues at the Countryside Alliance, we will be able to focus more resources on more proactive and promotional public relations. We need to get off back foot. It will be possible to communicate openly about hunting activities and work in hunt kennels, and to highlight all the environmental good that hunts do and the positive impact hunts have within the countryside. In time this may even put us in a position where we can start to unroll the legislation that has done so much harm to wildlife, the countryside and rural communities.
Our goal is the protection, promotion and preservation of our core values, and the continuation of the sport we all love, for many years to come. If we get this right the Masters and huntsmen of today will be paving the way for a new generation to carry hunting on into a new era, hunting will continue to be an intrinsic part of the modern countryside and hounds will still be the glue that binds together so many rural communities.
It is our intention to take our plans to the hunting association AGMs in early summer, so structures are in place for the start of next season.
Andrew Osborne
Chairman MFHA and Council of Hunting Associations
Published: 11th March 2022
 
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