Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Fred66]

You shouldn’t have to ask them to leave if they know they are trespassing.

It is not always clear cut, they might not know, land boundaries are not always clearly marked.

 

[Fred66]

How do you think fox hunting would have prevented this?

Can you please edit this post as you have indicated that I said this and it was not me .

 

[meleeka]

.

 

[meleeka]

Can you please edit this post as you have indicated that I said this and it was not me .

Sorry, I’ve no idea how I managed that!

 

[suestowford]

I am unsure on how you differentiate between killing a fox for sport, if the farmer shoots the fox is this not sport ?

I would imagine that most farmers would shoot a fox to protect their livestock, rather than for fun.
I'd also hazard a guess that a lot of farmers are too busy with farming, to have time for much fun of any kind.

 

[meleeka]

I would imagine that most farmers would shoot a fox to protect their livestock, rather than for fun.
I'd also hazard a guess that a lot of farmers are too busy with farming, to have time for much fun of any kind.

A fox walking around minding its own business, then getting shot and killed is totally different from being made to run for its life, for goodness knows how long, then being torn apart by dogs. The latter causes distress and suffering and that’s the difference.

 

[spacefaer]

How do you think fox hunting would have prevented this?

Because the sheep farmers who are allowing the chap who did it on their land to shoot the badgers wouldn't have tolerated the shooting of foxes pre ban. Now the hunt is not controlling the population, there is indiscriminate year round, all age shooting which is directly affecting the whole population. There hasn't been a litter on the bank for at least three years, which I find very sad.

 

[Koweyka]

Many studies have concluded that fox hunting does nothing for population control, many hunts used to feed foxes in areas they hunted to make sure they had something to chase. Why do artificial earths exist ?

There are just too many trigger happy lunatics with guns that get their kicks by shooting animals.

 

[paddy555]

It is not always clear cut, they might not know, land boundaries are not always clearly marked.

rubbish. If you are the master/huntsman it is up to you to KNOW if you or your hounds or any other part of the hunt are permitted on a piece of land.
Hounds came over the fence (pulling it down as they went) into one of our fields. We have owned it for over 40 years. If they didn't know they should have found out. They actually came from a field on the other side of the fence where they also had no right to be. Huntsman came out the following after I complained. Said he didn't know the boundaries.
Not a case of not knowing just a case of CBA to respect.

 

[Koweyka]

rubbish. If you are the master/huntsman it is up to you to KNOW if you or your hounds or any other part of the hunt are permitted on a piece of land.
Hounds came over the fence (pulling it down as they went) into one of our fields. We have owned it for over 40 years. If they didn't know they should have found out. They actually came from a field on the other side of the fence where they also had no right to be. Huntsman came out the following after I complained. Said he didn't know the boundaries.
Not a case of not knowing just a case of CBA to respect.

And when hounds are killing foxes in private gardens or chasing foxes around housing estates, across busy A roads what’s the excuse for that ? The fallacy that it’s only the anti’s that trespass is ridiculous, if a hunt is pursuing a fox there is no regard for anything or anyone else.

 

[Indy]

It is not always clear cut, they might not know, land boundaries are not always clearly marked.

You'd like to think they'd if they're laying a trail they'd know where they were going and would have asked the landowners permission before laying the trail.

 

[Fred66]

Do you know about scent at all ? Weather conditions can have a big impact on it there is no guarantee that it remains where it was laid, strength of the scent, how long it will last, there can be other outside factors that might impact on it. The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

 

[teacups]

It is not always clear cut, they might not know, land boundaries are not always clearly marked.

In this case, it was very clear.
In this case there was also no trail.

 

[Sandstone1]

So trails are laid through gardens on railway lines and on land that the hunt is not allowed? Oh no the wind, rain frost etc will have moved the trail miles off course wont it? total co incidence that a fox was found and hunted on this mystical trail is it not. Yeah right.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

Then the trail layer needs to take the prevailing scenting conditions into account, inc wind direction, and keep well away from land that the hunt has not been given permission to be on. There is no excuse for incursions onto off limits land. That happens because of poor practice.

 

[Koweyka]

If the scent being laid isn’t strong enough to hold the pack despite how “windy or wet ” it is then that hunt/pack has no business being out.

And the second the hounds deviate off the line the huntsman and whip should be calling them back immediately, not leaving them to rampage on private property after a “four legged ginger trail”

 

[paddy555]

Do you know about scent at all ? Weather conditions can have a big impact on it there is no guarantee that it remains where it was laid, strength of the scent, how long it will last, there can be other outside factors that might impact on it. The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

I don't need to know about scent at all. It is of no interest to me (or other landowners) The hunts job is to keep hounds (and everyone else) off land where they are not permitted. How they do it I have absolutely no interest in. Up to them not up to me to prevent mistakes.
Do you not understand that?

 

[Fred66]

…

 

[Indy]

Do you know about scent at all ? Weather conditions can have a big impact on it there is no guarantee that it remains where it was laid, strength of the scent, how long it will last, there can be other outside factors that might impact on it. The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

I do know a little bit about scent, I take my own dog mantrailing and appreciate that hot humid conditions and obviously wind can make scent drift and travel and that cold, frosty ground holds scent better but whether you're following a trail step by step or you've gone off kilter you really shouldn't be worrying other folks pregnant ewes.

 

[palo1]

I don't need to know about scent at all. It is of no interest to me (or other landowners) The hunts job is to keep hounds (and everyone else) off land where they are not permitted. How they do it I have absolutely no interest in. Up to them not up to me to prevent mistakes.
Do you not understand that?

I think everyone understands that mistakes shouldn't happen and certainly in some cases there is real damage and upset which is intolerable. Having said that, where on earth is any sense of reality about life in the countryside? people's Sheep get onto their neighbours land as do cattle, fences aren't maintained, gates get left open, people's domestic dogs don't always go where they are supposed to and farm dogs roam on occasion. Generally people are tolerant and understanding when accidents happen or something goes awry. I understand that some posters here have a complete intolerance to any kind of hound activity and that is fine but the reality generally in rural areas is that people try to be tolerant with their neighbours and the community. I don't see any sense of that in what is posted here tbh. I am not talking about when damage and upset happens but what I have generally seen to be the case when hounds are not quite where they are supposed to be without causing damage or upset. This forum isn't the place for moderate views about hunting I know though.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Generally people are tolerant and understanding when accidents happen or something goes awry.

Indeed, but they are much less tolerant when repeated incursions happen due to incompetence and/or deliberate poor or illegal practice.

 

[ycbm]

Do you know about scent at all ? Weather conditions can have a big impact on it there is no guarantee that it remains where it was laid, strength of the scent, how long it will last, there can be other outside factors that might impact on it. The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

And yet drag hunts have no trouble keeping their hounds on the scent.
We've been through all this so many times!

 

[palo1]

And yet drag hunts have no trouble keeping their hounds on the scent.
We've been through all this so many times!

Drag hunts do go astray on occasion as do bloodhounds.

 

[Fred66]

And yet drag hunts have no trouble keeping their hounds on the scent.
We've been through all this so many times!

Some of the reasons I gave are not about hounds losing the scent but about the scent moving from where it is laid. This can happen with any pack, drag or trail.

Equally I was not excusing deliberate trespass by hunts, I started by saying that if hunts are on land that the owner doesn’t want them on and they refuse to leave then they should be reported to the police for criminal trespass.

 

[Fred66]

I do know a little bit about scent, I take my own dog mantrailing and appreciate that hot humid conditions and obviously wind can make scent drift and travel and that cold, frosty ground holds scent better but whether you're following a trail step by step or you've gone off kilter you really shouldn't be worrying other folks pregnant ewes.

Totally agree if stock is being worried it’s not acceptable but fortunately it is quite rare.
However I regularly read reports by sabs that stock has been worried when in fact it has just moved away from hounds passing by. Worrying is the deliberate chasing of not just happening to be in the vicinity.

 

[Indy]

Totally agree if stock is being worried it’s not acceptable but fortunately it is quite rare.
However I regularly read reports by sabs that stock has been worried when in fact it has just moved away from hounds passing by. Worrying is the deliberate chasing of not just happening to be in the vicinity.

I don't follow sab reports, I'm referring to our flock who were worried by the Boxing Hunt a couple of years ago.

 

[GoldenWillow]

If you ask them to leave and they refuse, then yes report them

Police will still class it as a civil matter and are not interested, in our area anyway.

It is not always clear cut, they might not know, land boundaries are not always clearly marked.

Do you know about scent at all ? Weather conditions can have a big impact on it there is no guarantee that it remains where it was laid, strength of the scent, how long it will last, there can be other outside factors that might impact on it. The trail will be laid by someone that is familiar with the country and it will be laid where they have permission to go but that doesn’t guarantee that it remains there

A hunt that regularly, 50%, of the time goes through a 35 acre pocket that they specifically did not and had never had permission to go on and a block of 100+ acres gone through 3 times in a row when, again, specifically told in no uncertain terms not to go near is very clear cut to me.

We have hound trails running in our area and in at our village. Although there's the odd hound that gets lost I've never known the whole field to go off track by even a full field.

 

[ycbm]

Drag hunts do go astray on occasion as do bloodhounds.

Some of the reasons I gave are not about hounds losing the scent but about the scent moving from where

To my knowledge (and I was nearly always at the front), it never happened once in the many, many years that I drag hunted that the pack strayed more than 100 or so metres from the intended trail before being recalled.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Following on from the reorganisation of the governance of hunting in the wake of the webinar leak.

To which body should a member of the public now raise a formal complaint about the actions of a hunt, and what are their contact details?

The MFHA were about as useful as a chocolate teapot in handling complaints. Let's hope that the new version takes that side rather more seriously.

 

[paddy555]

I think everyone understands that mistakes shouldn't happen and certainly in some cases there is real damage and upset which is intolerable. Having said that, where on earth is any sense of reality about life in the countryside? people's Sheep get onto their neighbours land as do cattle, fences aren't maintained, gates get left open, people's domestic dogs don't always go where they are supposed to and farm dogs roam on occasion. Generally people are tolerant and understanding when accidents happen or something goes awry. I understand that some posters here have a complete intolerance to any kind of hound activity and that is fine but the reality generally in rural areas is that people try to be tolerant with their neighbours and the community. I don't see any sense of that in what is posted here tbh. I am not talking about when damage and upset happens but what I have generally seen to be the case when hounds are not quite where they are supposed to be without causing damage or upset. This forum isn't the place for moderate views about hunting I know though.

sorry but no. It is not about tolerance. This is an organised activity that has to take total responsibility for it's actions. If hounds chase a cat through a village how can tolerance be exercised by the owner. It is simply lack of control. If hounds go running across a field which no permission it isn't tolerance that is needed it is control of dogs. If hunt staff don''t know if there is permission on a block of land it is not tolerance that is needed it is responsibility. If they go through a stable yard or close to horses in a field or stables etc and cause upset why is it the owner who should show tolerance. Why not the hunt who having seen a potential problem who should show respect and avoid the area/place. The hunt must know the area, they must know there are several horses in X field so their choices are to take the whole hunt past which could almost certainly rile the horses up and cause an accident or just avoid that area. They most often do the former.

This is a very crowded little island and if someone wants to carry on an activity it is up to them to make sure others are not inconvenienced.
I do have tolerance for sheep and cattle but I don't need to have because my neighbours have taken steps to make sure their boundaries are good so everything stays where it should be. Similarly my boundaries have been made very secure to make sure no one goes walkabout. If my dog roamed then I would expect my neighbours to shoot it. As it was causing havoc in a flock of sheep I wouldn't expect them to be tolerant I would see I was at fault in failing to keep it under control. In the same way if hounds run through my animals I don't expect to exercise tolerance.

From your post I see it that you expect people to be tolerant about the hunt and it's mistakes. I see it that mistakes should be exceedingly rare. No one would be thinking of tolerance if a walker let say a half a dozen loose GSDs run their field of horses. I think the horse owner would be furious and rightly so.

I'm afraid that many of these posts about tolerance do come across as arrogance of the hunts. Perhaps that is just me.