Hunting is in a spot of bother

[suestowford]

It's not just you, Paddy.

 

[Fred66]

Paddy I agree with some of what you have written but not all. I would agree that the full pack of hounds and field should never be on property where they know they are not welcome, that apologies should be immediate and that this should not be repeated. That stock should be safe from being worried, these things are not acceptable.

However I would argue that some of the blame for hunts no longer making an effort to notify all land owners where they will be lies with the growing lack of tolerance in the countryside. It appears to make no difference to some that the majority of hunts are legally hunting a trail and this manifests itself in people actively going out to abuse those partaking in a legal pastime. Is it any wonder that the provision of information is disseminated to those who are supportive of their activities, never mind the time and cost of informing a wider circle of people.

I read of one hunt who at the meet invited the hunt “monitors “ to partake of food and drink as well as to follow the hunt to show them the trail. They could have politely refused, explained that they were vegans whatever, instead they verbally abused the lady who offered them hospitality , took photos of her and then posted these photos on twitter using derogatory terms to encourage others to do the same.

If the hunt are on a public road, bridle way or private land with the owners permission then there is no obligation on them to inform the general public that they will be in the area. Would it be a neighborly thing to do then yes, but to be honest would it change opinions of many of you on here ? I would hazard a guess not and possibly what many perceive as arrogance on behalf of the hunts may well just be them retreating from an argument before it starts, you can only beat your head against a brick wall for so long. I am sure there are arrogant hunts out there but equally many are just decent people trying to avoid conflict partaking in a legal activity.

People are entitled to be intolerant of others if they so choose but don’t then be surprised if the other person won’t do you a favour.

Also it isn’t up to organised activities to not inconvenience others, where I live we have cycle races on a weekly basis , along with club cycle nights etc. They can be annoying and irritating, and inconvenient, but they have every right to be there so I have to tolerate them. If you go at it with a tolerant attitude then largely I find it doesn annoy me as much.

 

[paddy555]

I'm sorry Fred but you just don't seem to get it. Cyclists race on public roads, they don't normally stray across private land with or without livestock on it. The hunt and it's animals should not be on that private land without permission. Straying hounds are not an excuse. Not a full pack of hounds, any number of hounds full stop. None. In that case people don't have to tolerate them.

As far as neighbourly things to do. Then if there are say horses in a field by the side of the road then of course the hunt don't have to do anything whatsoever for those horses. They are perfectly free to charge past and to upset them. Of course they are. Similarly horses in a yard or whatever situation. However as animal owners themselves one would have thought they would have had a little more respect for them and tried to avoid them or at least to reduce the hunt activities to the bare minimum not to rile them up and risk injury.

One could always have the situation whereby the hunt avoid problems areas to reduce disruption and injury to those horses. But of course why should they, as you say people are entitled to be intolerant of others.

 

[Fred66]

I'm sorry Fred but you just don't seem to get it. Cyclists race on public roads, they don't normally stray across private land with or without livestock on it. The hunt and it's animals should not be on that private land without permission. Straying hounds are not an excuse. Not a full pack of hounds, any number of hounds full stop. None. In that case people don't have to tolerate them..

You are deliberately comparing trespass by a hunt (which I agreed with you was wrong) rather than to a hunt partaking in its legal activity on ground it is allowed to be on. I can understand your anger and frustration with the hunt near you if you are subject to regular trespass, however this doesn’t mean that other hunts act in the same way, trail hunting is legal and if done legally then the inconvenience of them being on the road and slowing you down is directly comparable to cycle club time trials or road races (if anything these can be worse as they impact on a larger number of people)

As far as neighbourly things to do. Then if there are say horses in a field by the side of the road then of course the hunt don't have to do anything whatsoever for those horses. They are perfectly free to charge past and to upset them. Of course they are. Similarly horses in a yard or whatever situation. However as animal owners themselves one would have thought they would have had a little more respect for them and tried to avoid them or at least to reduce the hunt activities to the bare minimum not to rile them up and risk injury.

One could always have the situation whereby the hunt avoid problems areas to reduce disruption and injury to those horses. But of course why should they, as you say people are entitled to be intolerant of others.

Our hunt is considerate of horses left out, we generally go past in at most a trot and frequently walk. This does not always stop incidents, we we’re passing down a bridle path in a very steady walk a good sized field away from one horse, that got through its field fence (so badly fenced it might as well not have had one) and took off in the opposite direction. A small group of the field plus car followers did a combination of following the horse, phoning round to see if we could identify an owner, as well as knocking at peoples doors. We spent the better part of two hours trying to catch it and when the owner was located we got a mouthful of abuse. So as I said tolerance is a two way street and the responsibility for an animals safety is the owners.

Our hunt has land split across a fairly wide area but generally speaking the hunt cards don’t differ much from one season to another so chances are most locals will have a fairly good idea of when the hunt is likely to be nearby.

 

[ycbm]

Our hunt has land split across a fairly wide area but generally speaking the hunt cards don’t differ much from one season to another so chances are most locals will have a fairly good idea of when the hunt is likely to be nearby.

You're so close to the wood you can't see the trees Fred.

This is what people mean when they call hunts arrogant. You expect people to remember from year to year which specific weeks your hunt comes to their area. You expect incomers to the area, whenever residents or liveries of renters of grazing to pick this information up by osmosis.

I'm sorry you have trouble from sabs if you tell people where you are going to be, but imo that is the fault of hunts which don't take enough trouble to avoid catching fox, both legal and illegal. There is very little sabbing of drag packs, we have been told on this forum of only one that has been sabbed any time recently.

There are notices in advance of bike races, there should be notification of hunting. The country is too small and populated for you simply to insist on tolerance.
.

 

[Fred66]

You're so close to the wood you can't see the trees Fred.

This is what people mean when they call hunts arrogant. You expect people to remember from year to year which specific weeks your hunt comes to their area. You expect incomers to the area, whenever residents or liveries of renters of grazing to pick this information up by osmosis.

I'm sorry you have trouble from sabs if you tell people where you are going to be, but imo that is the fault of hunts which don't take enough trouble to avoid catching fox, both legal and illegal. There is very little sabbing of drag packs, we have been told on this forum of only one that has been sabbed any time recently.

There are notices in advance of bike races, there should be notification of hunting. The country is too small and populated for you simply to insist on tolerance.
.

Have to disagree with you , notice of cycle races don’t go up round here, the first you here of it frequently is seeing a Marshall at a crossroads.

I think the arrogance being shown by many on here regarding an entitlement to be informed of when the hunt is in your area is remarkable. The total self absorption and unwillingness to see that there is no obligation for the hunts to inform you of when they will be in the area and that the sharing of the information is theirs to gift not yours as a right, isthe epitome of arrogance.

 

[ycbm]

Have to disagree with you , notice of cycle races don’t go up round here, the first you here of it frequently is seeing a Marshall at a crossroads.

Road races aren't allowed without prior warning. You may be talking about time trials where riders ride singly which do not equate to the chaos caused on the roads by a big group of horses and riders. If you have marshalled groups of cyclists racing as a peleton, report it to the police.

I think the arrogance being shown by many on here regarding an entitlement to be informed of when the hunt is in your area is remarkable. The total self absorption and unwillingness to see that there is no obligation for the hunts to inform you of when they will be in the area and that the sharing of the information is theirs to gift not yours as a right, isthe epitome of arrogance.

And that's why eventually you will lose hunting altogether and have nobody to blame but yourselves.
.

 

[Indy]

You are deliberately comparing trespass by a hunt (which I agreed with you was wrong) rather than to a hunt partaking in its legal activity on ground it is allowed to be on. I can understand your anger and frustration with the hunt near you if you are subject to regular trespass, however this doesn’t mean that other hunts act in the same way, trail hunting is legal and if done legally then the inconvenience of them being on the road and slowing you down is directly comparable to cycle club time trials or road races (if anything these can be worse as they impact on a larger number of people)



Our hunt is considerate of horses left out, we generally go past in at most a trot and frequently walk. This does not always stop incidents, we we’re passing down a bridle path in a very steady walk a good sized field away from one horse, that got through its field fence (so badly fenced it might as well not have had one) and took off in the opposite direction. A small group of the field plus car followers did a combination of following the horse, phoning round to see if we could identify an owner, as well as knocking at peoples doors. We spent the better part of two hours trying to catch it and when the owner was located we got a mouthful of abuse. So as I said tolerance is a two way street and the responsibility for an animals safety is the owners.

Is that just not being a good person though. I can't say I'm overly fond of cyclists but if I saw one fall off in front of me I'd stop and give first aid and make sure they were ok. I saw someone struggling with their horse to get past a van with flappy tarpaulin. I know she hunts, I've seen her with them in the pub, the road was wet, the horse had forgotten where it's brain was I didn't just drive past chuntering too myself, I pulled over, put a leadrope on and led her two mile up the road back to her yard. We've housed hounds when they've been forgotten until the kennels came and picked them up (with no thank you) and if I saw a loose hunt horse or a rider on the floor I'd help them too. That's not tolerance that's just being a good person. We don't tolerate it when folks come on stealing diesel or machinery, why should we tolerate the hunt mucking up our crops and worrying our livestock?

 

[Fred66]

Road races aren't allowed without prior warning. You may be talking about time trials where riders ride singly which do not equate to the chaos caused on the roads by a big group of horses and riders. If you have marshalled groups of cyclists racing as a peleton, report it to the police.



And that's why eventually you will lose hunting altogether and have nobody to blame but yourselves.
.

I said time trials and races, along with just club nights where they ride round in groups of 20+ without any prior warning or signage.

Hopefully you are wrong about the latter, it would be a sad reflection on society if the “me first” people were able to convince the Government that minority activities have no place in this Country.

 

[Fred66]

Is that just not being a good person though. I can't say I'm overly fond of cyclists but if I saw one fall off in front of me I'd stop and give first aid and make sure they were ok. I saw someone struggling with their horse to get past a van with flappy tarpaulin. I know she hunts, I've seen her with them in the pub, the road was wet, the horse had forgotten where it's brain was I didn't just drive past chuntering too myself, I pulled over, put a leadrope on and led her two mile up the road back to her yard. We've housed hounds when they've been forgotten until the kennels came and picked them up (with no thank you) and if I saw a loose hunt horse or a rider on the floor I'd help them too. That's not tolerance that's just being a good person. We don't tolerate it when folks come on stealing diesel or machinery, why should we tolerate the hunt mucking up our crops and worrying our livestock?

I am not sure how many more times I can say hunts shouldn’t trespass and no one is expecting you to tolerate that. The hunt should have thanked you for finding the hounds, and yes helping others is something that generally I would expect of people especially in the countryside where remoteness can bring its own problems.

I find the description by some of the lack of manners by some hunts quite appalling as good manners on the hunting field is one of the first rules that’s learnt.

Tolerance regarding their legal activities is what is being asked for. However many on here don’t think they should have to have even this, but expect the hunts at their own expense and time to notify them if they are going to be in the area. They seem to think that its our fault that we are continually harassed and abused, even when we have tried to work with monitors to show that we are trail hunting, that an action by a hunt 100+ miles away is in someway our fault. That we should provide information to all whilst knowing that the chances are that information will enable our abusers to be pre-warned.

That we in some way deserve the abuse that we receive and should basically pack up and go quietly because they don’t like our activity as it offends and inconveniences them

 

[palo1]

I am not sure how many more times I can say hunts shouldn’t trespass and no one is expecting you to tolerate that. The hunt should have thanked you for finding the hounds, and yes helping others is something that generally I would expect of people especially in the countryside where remoteness can bring its own problems.

I find the description by some of the lack of manners by some hunts quite appalling as good manners on the hunting field is one of the first rules that’s learnt.

Tolerance regarding their legal activities is what is being asked for. However many on here don’t think they should have to have even this, but expect the hunts at their own expense and time to notify them if they are going to be in the area. They seem to think that its our fault that we are continually harassed and abused, even when we have tried to work with monitors to show that we are trail hunting, that an action by a hunt 100+ miles away is in someway our fault. That we should provide information to all whilst knowing that the chances are that information will enable our abusers to be pre-warned.

That we in some way deserve the abuse that we receive and should basically pack up and go quietly because they don’t like our activity as it offends and inconveniences them

It is a reflection on some elements of society that tolerance cannot and will not be given unless that fits their schedule and ideology. The internet is absolutely a place where extreme opinions are expressed and where polarisation in debate is highlighted and sadly driven by algorithm and narrow focus but at the same time it does reveal the mentality of those parts of society where opinion can be expressed not only as fact but also where those opinions do not need facts, informed debate or wider cultural values that we generally hold in our society to be applied. I am really proud of my community, it's diversity in many ways, in the fact that it is not an echo chamber, where tolerance is actually practised and where people come together in lots of different places - culturally and physically. I don't see very many of the things that posters here talk about as if they are every day occurrences, I don't experience a lack of tolerance and my neighbours both pro and anti hunting have NEVER made me feel uncomfortable about my choice to trail hunt. I don't see the culture wars that are spouted as truth here on this forum. I see and experience far more tolerance and acceptance of differing views and values and I am truly grateful for that. I have had abuse from hunt sabs (when I was neither mounted nor in any form of hunting dress) and I have met very polite and interested hunt monitors. I have never knowingly ridden anywhere that wasn't cleared and I have never received any kind of abuse from a landowner or any indication that me, in hunting attire, is either an unwelcome sight or actively offensive. I am glad of that too. I am certain that I am far from alone in experiencing communities that are generous and open to others living their lives as they choose and actively promoting tolerance of difference in this issue as well as others.

 

[Fred66]

It is a reflection on some elements of society that tolerance cannot and will not be given unless that fits their schedule and ideology. The internet is absolutely a place where extreme opinions are expressed and where polarisation in debate is highlighted and sadly driven by algorithm and narrow focus but at the same time it does reveal the mentality of those parts of society where opinion can be expressed not only as fact but also where those opinions do not need facts, informed debate or wider cultural values that we generally hold in our society to be applied. I am really proud of my community, it's diversity in many ways, in the fact that it is not an echo chamber, where tolerance is actually practised and where people come together in lots of different places - culturally and physically. I don't see very many of the things that posters here talk about as if they are every day occurrences, I don't experience a lack of tolerance and my neighbours both pro and anti hunting have NEVER made me feel uncomfortable about my choice to trail hunt. I don't see the culture wars that are spouted as truth here on this forum. I see and experience far more tolerance and acceptance of differing views and values and I am truly grateful for that. I have had abuse from hunt sabs (when I was neither mounted nor in any form of hunting dress) and I have met very polite and interested hunt monitors. I have never knowingly ridden anywhere that wasn't cleared and I have never received any kind of abuse from a landowner or any indication that me, in hunting attire, is either an unwelcome sight or actively offensive. I am glad of that too. I am certain that I am far from alone in experiencing communities that are generous and open to others living their lives as they choose and actively promoting tolerance of difference in this issue as well as others.

I liked your post albeit some of the latter parts I now find sadly on the wane , we used to have hunt monitors who whilst not interacting much with us were generally polite. We now have hunt sabs and sadly this has changed. Last season our huntsman and his young family were subject to daily abuse by sabs sitting outside his house for almost a fortnight, how can anyone think this is acceptable?
Many locally appear to be live and let live so the abuse is by a few but they are a vocal few, pulling in some who whilst not directly abusive excuse it by making out it is deserved.

 

[palo1]

I liked your post albeit some of the latter parts I now find sadly on the wane , we used to have hunt monitors who whilst not interacting much with us were generally polite. We now have hunt sabs and sadly this has changed. Last season our huntsman and his young family were subject to daily abuse by sabs sitting outside his house for almost a fortnight, how can anyone think this is acceptable?
Many locally appear to be live and let live so the abuse is by a few but they are a vocal few, pulling in some who whilst not directly abusive excuse it by making out it is deserved.

Abuse, harassment and the involvement of other family members in any ideological issue is appalling. Sadly those strategies are deployed by people who do not want to debate or reason about their views, nor practise reasonability and tolerance and this can be seen increasingly around several issues of choice. I am really sad that you have experienced this. I hope you all have some good support locally to deal with what sounds a horrendous situation. Our huntsman too has a young family and we are mindful of that so I understand how stressful and horrible that is to have to take on board.

 

[Koweyka]

I liked your post albeit some of the latter parts I now find sadly on the wane , we used to have hunt monitors who whilst not interacting much with us were generally polite. We now have hunt sabs and sadly this has changed. Last season our huntsman and his young family were subject to daily abuse by sabs sitting outside his house for almost a fortnight, how can anyone think this is acceptable?
Many locally appear to be live and let live so the abuse is by a few but they are a vocal few, pulling in some who whilst not directly abusive excuse it by making out it is deserved.

There has to be some reason why your hunt is being targeted, there are almost 300 hunts in the country and probably a couple of dozen sab groups and a dozen monitoring groups, so as an anti it makes absolutely no sense for a sab group to waste time on a hunt that is trailing within the law as you state your hunt does, when there are plenty that aren’t.

 

[Koweyka]

Abuse, harassment and the involvement of other family members in any ideological issue is appalling. Sadly those strategies are deployed by people who do not want to debate or reason about their views, nor practise reasonability and tolerance and this can be seen increasingly around several issues of choice. I am really sad that you have experienced this. I hope you all have some good support locally to deal with what sounds a horrendous situation. Our huntsman too has a young family and we are mindful of that so I understand how stressful and horrible that is to have to take on board.

You are aware that it’s a two way street and anti’s are subjected to the same if not worse level of harassment by the hunting community.

 

[palo1]

You are aware that it’s a two way street and anti’s are subjected to the same if not worse level of harassment by the hunting community.

Not in my name and not from my hunting community. That is important to be aware of; hunting is made up of many different communities - that has always been it's nature and why it isn't possible to generalise. There is as much difference between hunting communities as there are political constituencies and local cultures. That is at least one reason why the silly MFHA have failed to engage all hunts; many of which never attended the webinars for example. It is very much needed to have some effective over-arching governance, but then sab and monitor groups experience the same issues and differ in their strategies and group cultures too.

 

[paddy555]

It is a reflection on some elements of society that tolerance cannot and will not be given unless that fits their schedule and ideology. .

you've hit the nail on the head. If we are expected to be tolerant of the hunt then they are also expected to be tolerant of the rest of the population and their property. and their animals.
I'm afraid YCBM has made the most accurate comment. You cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

[Nasicus]

I think the arrogance being shown by many on here regarding an entitlement to be informed of when the hunt is in your area is remarkable. The total self absorption and unwillingness to see that there is no obligation for the hunts to inform you of when they will be in the area and that the sharing of the information is theirs to gift not yours as a right, isthe epitome of arrogance.

Ah yes, how arrogant of people to want to be informed of when a bunch of people partaking in a voluntary pastime (which causes much disruption to those around them) are passing by. How arrogant of them to want to know when to keep their horses in, to make sure the cat is safely inside, to ensure all gates are closed, to know when to stay home all day to safeguard their land and stock, to know when the traffic is likely to be ground to a halt in the village, what roads are likely to be snarled up with followers, cars, quads and dogs. How absolutely arrogant of them to expect the bare minimum basic decency ?

 

[Fred66]

There has to be some reason why your hunt is being targeted, there are almost 300 hunts in the country and probably a couple of dozen sab groups and a dozen monitoring groups, so as an anti it makes absolutely no sense for a sab group to waste time on a hunt that is trailing within the law as you state your hunt does, when there are plenty that aren’t.

From what I see because sabs are a law unto themselves and get enjoyment from harassing others. Quite sad and frankly disturbing that there are people out there that appear to derive enjoyment in terrorizing others. But to be honest I can’t make sense of them or their actions, it’s outside my comprehension.

 

[Fred66]

Ah yes, how arrogant of people to want to be informed of when a bunch of people partaking in a voluntary pastime (which causes much disruption to those around them) are passing by. How arrogant of them to want to know when to keep their horses in, to make sure the cat is safely inside, to ensure all gates are closed, to know when to stay home all day to safeguard their land and stock, to know when the traffic is likely to be ground to a halt in the village, what roads are likely to be snarled up with followers, cars, quads and dogs. How absolutely arrogant of them to expect the bare minimum basic decency ?

Why do you feel that hunts are obligated to give this information? They have previously done this through courtesy and for many years this was happily done. However some hunts no longer do this for a number of reasons, if you politely ring the secretary and ask whether you could be notified when the hunt is likely to be in your vicinity in the coming season then the probability is that they will oblige. However more and more hunts are cagey about putting this information out there because bitter experience shows them that this results in them getting abused.

So as I previously said it is a courtesy that the hunt inform not a given right, and if people believe that it is their “right to know” and demand the information rather than ask politely then yes I would say they are being arrogant.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Have to disagree with you , notice of cycle races don’t go up round here, the first you here of it frequently is seeing a Marshall at a crossroads.

I think the arrogance being shown by many on here regarding an entitlement to be informed of when the hunt is in your area is remarkable. The total self absorption and unwillingness to see that there is no obligation for the hunts to inform you of when they will be in the area and that the sharing of the information is theirs to gift not yours as a right, isthe epitome of arrogance.

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous, arrogant, self important statements made on this thread.

Remember Barney the horse who was killed by hounds at the beginning of the year? His owner said she would have kept him in his stable if she had known the hunt would be riding by. Instead, 40 hounds broke into his field, chasing him into a gate and causing him to break his leg. When she arrived at the scene, he had been lying there for god knows how long and had to be euthanised.

Are you really telling me that Barney's owner was the arrogant one in this situation? Her poor horse was just an innocent bystander, another victim of out of control hounds and extremely arrogant people, who couldn't keep one dog under control, let alone 40.

I am so fed up of people making up excuses for this kind of behaviour and for making it sound like the general public are the problem. Oh, how very very arrogant of us for wanting to protect our animals, we are the worst

 

[Koweyka]

Why do you feel that hunts are obligated to give this information? They have previously done this through courtesy and for many years this was happily done. However some hunts no longer do this for a number of reasons, if you politely ring the secretary and ask whether you could be notified when the hunt is likely to be in your vicinity in the coming season then the probability is that they will oblige. However more and more hunts are cagey about putting this information out there because bitter experience shows them that this results in them getting abused.

So as I previously said it is a courtesy that the hunt inform not a given right, and if people believe that it is their “right to know” and demand the information rather than ask politely then yes I would say they are being arrogant.

The thing is we don’t need a meet card to find out where any hunt is on any day, so by not giving the public the choice around keeping their pets, horses, livestock safe so a small minority can go hunting is yet another reason why the hunts are disliked so much.

 

[Koweyka]

This has got to be one of the most ridiculous, arrogant, self important statements made on this thread.

Remember Barney the horse who was killed by hounds at the beginning of the year? His owner said she would have kept him in his stable if she had known the hunt would be riding by. Instead, 40 hounds broke into his field, chasing him into a gate and causing him to break his leg. When she arrived at the scene, he had been lying there for god knows how long and had to be euthanised.

Are you really telling me that Barney's owner was the arrogant one in this situation? Her poor horse was just an innocent bystander, another victim of out of control hounds and extremely arrogant people, who couldn't keep one dog under control, let alone 40.

I am so fed up of people making up excuses for this kind of behaviour and for making it sound like the general public are the problem. Oh, how very very arrogant of us for wanting to protect our animals, we are the worst

? extremely well said.

 

[Nasicus]

Why do you feel that hunts are obligated to give this information? They have previously done this through courtesy and for many years this was happily done. However some hunts no longer do this for a number of reasons, if you politely ring the secretary and ask whether you could be notified when the hunt is likely to be in your vicinity in the coming season then the probability is that they will oblige. However more and more hunts are cagey about putting this information out there because bitter experience shows them that this results in them getting abused.

So as I previously said it is a courtesy that the hunt inform not a given right, and if people believe that it is their “right to know” and demand the information rather than ask politely then yes I would say they are being arrogant.

Because this isn't some cycle race that causes a bit of traffic. This is an activity that is much maligned in the public eye, that can and often does have negative consequences to the lives of people and their animals that have absolutely no involvement or affiliation, all for the enjoyment of a few others. And it isn't some activity that can be easily avoided due to being confined to a single location, such as a shoot.

How an earth can you expect to turn peoples perceptions around and attempt to preserve your much beloved sport, when your answer to the owner of the horse with the broken leg is 'well you should have asked politely'? When your answer the owner of the mauled cat's question of 'Why didn't you let people know?' is 'Well if we told people than the antis might find us and ruin our fun'?

Sit back and take a real hard look at yourself Fred, because you are not doing hunting any favours at all with that attitude of yours.

 

[Fred66]

The thing is we don’t need a meet card to find out where any hunt is on any day, so by not giving the public the choice around keeping their pets, horses, livestock safe so a small minority can go hunting is yet another reason why the hunts are disliked so much.

But our experience is that in the main we aren’t disliked, generally around us we have good support.

 

[paddy555]

So as I previously said it is a courtesy that the hunt inform not a given right, and if people believe that it is their “right to know” and demand the information rather than ask politely then yes I would say they are being arrogant.

it is my right not to have hounds, not any of them, on my land. You don't address that. Not apologies for it happening just that it doesn't happen in the first place. Address the issue of Barney. Not that it is sad or unfortunate but why it happened in the first place. Dogs don't get out of control and stray people lack control and let them.

Sit back and take a real hard look at yourself Fred, because you are not doing hunting any favours at all with that attitude of yours.

your posts Fred sum up general hunt attitudes. Do you not realise that far from promoting hunting your are doing the opposite.

 

[Koweyka]

But our experience is that in the main we aren’t disliked, generally around us we have good support.

Perhaps in your own little bubble, but public opinion is very much against hunting.

 

[Clodagh]

I find the description by some of the lack of manners by some hunts quite appalling as good manners on the hunting field is one of the first rules that’s learnt.

I stopped hunting largely as a result of the appalling manners shown by the field to landowners and road users. It does seem infinitely better round where I live now but I am surprised that you feel non hunting people have any obligation to the hunt. Many, maybe even most rural people enjoy seeing the hunt but the ones that don’t have just as much right to an opinion.

 

[Fred66]

I stopped hunting largely as a result of the appalling manners shown by the field to landowners and road users. It does seem infinitely better round where I live now but I am surprised that you feel non hunting people have any obligation to the hunt. Many, maybe even most rural people enjoy seeing the hunt but the ones that don’t have just as much right to an opinion.

I don’t believe non hunting people have an obligation and totally agree that everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[Tiddlypom]

think the arrogance being shown by many on here regarding an entitlement to be informed of when the hunt is in your area is remarkable. The total self absorption and unwillingness to see that there is no obligation for the hunts to inform you of when they will be in the area and that the sharing of the information is theirs to gift not yours as a right, isthe epitome of arrogance.

Whereas if a particular hunt declines, if asked in a polite fashion, to inform residents of when they will be around so that the residents can make arrangements to keep their stock and animals safe, then the hunt are deliberately being arrogant feckwits.

Make no mistake, having the hunt here is a pain in the @rse, but as long as I am pre warned so that I can organise my animals (horses, dog, cat) in good time then we go on lockdown and I will not give the hunt a peep of trouble. Turning up without warning is another thing altogether, and I will be very cross indeed (once I have grabbed the animals in).

Moving to big hunt country from small friendly hunt country was a huge shock to me as a hunting person as to just how badly behaved and arrogant a hunt can be. Tbf, they have gradually improved over the years, and have been a lot better more recently. Fingers crossed that they don't revert.

Certain past masters didn't even think it necessary to warn the tenant farmers in advance that they were intending to hunt across their land on a particular day. They knew that the tenant farmers couldn't ban them, so they didn't bother contacting them.