Hunting is in a spot of bother

[ycbm]

Well, rather than relying on sabs this is a case for the brand new separate Regulatory Authority – the Hound Sports Regulatory Authority (HSRA) - which administers all regulation and disciplinary matters for members and member hunts, in accordance with the rules set by the BHSA.

If the HSRA has any teeth and actually means to regulate hunting from within, rather than being complicit in supporting illegal practice...

The Warwickshire Hunt should be suspended pending a robust investigation into its activities by the HSRA.

I won't be holding my breath!
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I won't be holding my breath!
.

Me neither, but if hunting has any genuine desire to reform and kick out the bad 'uns from within, this is the time to step up and take action and suspend this hunt forthwith.

Over to you, the new structure for the governance of hunting.

Are you there to allow the continuation of illegal hunting, or are you there to stamp it out? This is when you will show your true colours. Anything less than the immediate suspension of the licence of the Warwickshire to hunt pending enquiries is a cop out.

 

[Miss_Millie]

How they keep getting away with this, I just don't know...

 

[Koweyka]

I personally believe the Warwickshire are the most disgusting law breaking hunt in the country, certainly last season and it seems nothing has changed this season and The Portman Hunt are following close behind with another disgusting display of deliberately hunting a fox. The “new” governing body needs to put it’s money where it’s mouth is and suspend both hunts if it wants to be taken seriously.

 

[Sandstone1]

How can they say thats trail hunting in any shape or form? I can not understand why the Police do nothing when its as blatant as this.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The police really should respond to that footage. I've posted earlier in the thread about how holding up is one of the most blatant and obvious transgressions of the Hunting Act. I'm fairly gobsmacked that any pack thinks that they can still get away with holding up in the 2022/23 season.

Although the hunt followers (as opposed to the hunt staff and officials) are not technically commiting an offence by knowingly following a law breaking pack, they can still be found guilty of illegal hunting if they knowingly commit an illegal act while doing so - such as trying to head a fleeing fox back to the hounds.



From the Stratford Herald.

'Sam Butler, of Warwickshire Hunt, confirmed to the Herald that the video does show footage of Warwickshire Hunt members out on Monday, 12th September in Ashorne.'

 

[Koweyka]

The give it a fancy name “autumn hunting” they don’t use a “trail” They usually panic and go for a trot around the roads when sabs or the police show up. It’s vile and disgusting and the reason they pack up when caught is because they have no defence for it.

 

[Sandstone1]

The police really should respond to that footage. I've posted earlier in the thread about how holding up is one of the most blatant and obvious transgressions of the Hunting Act. I'm fairly gobsmacked that any pack thinks that they can still get away with holding up in the 2022/23 season.

Although the hunt followers (as opposed to the hunt staff and officials) are not technically commiting an offence by knowingly following a law breaking pack, they can still be found guilty of illegal hunting if they knowingly commit an illegal act while doing so - such as trying to head a fleeing fox back to the hounds.

From the Stratford Herald.

'Sam Butler, of Warwickshire Hunt, confirmed to the Herald that the video does show footage of Warwickshire Hunt members out on Monday, 12th September in Ashorne.'

I reported to the Police but no response so far.

 

[sakura]

For goodness sake is this still going.

This thread will continue as long as hunts are breaking the law.

 

[Gallop_Away]

This thread will continue as long as hunts are breaking the law.

OK but I do not see the point raking over the same arguments again and again and expecting further responses from posters who have already explained their views clearly throughout this thread. It's simply flogging a dead horse. "Pro hunt" as we have been labelled have made it quite clear that we do not support illegal hunting throughout this discussion.

 

[Sandstone1]

I had a reply. " Our team is investigating a alleged offence but can not comment further at this time"

 

[Sandstone1]

To be fair, we've never had any hunters who are openly pro illegal hunting on this thread and there's not much anyone can say about this except "is wrong, it shouldn't be happening".

I wonder if people who did hunt fox legally, and want a return to it, want this kind of cubbing back too. I understand that not all hunts did it.
.

Anyone that wants cubbing brought back needs to have a look at themselves.

 

[AmyMay]

OK but I do not see the point raking over the same arguments again and again and expecting further responses from posters who have already explained their views clearly throughout this thread. It's simply flogging a dead horse. "Pro hunt" as we have been labelled have made it quite clear that we do not support illegal hunting throughout this discussion.

Does that mean that you’d rather posters didn’t continue to draw attention to recent illegal activity?

 

[Gallop_Away]

Does that mean that you’d rather posters didn’t continue to draw attention to recent illegal activity?

At no point did I say anything of the sort. My comments are regarding a certain poster continuing to demand responses from those they have labelled pro-hunt when I am unsure what more we can possibly say that has not already been said, many times throughout this thread. To continue to label us "pro-hunt" is at best tedious and at worst insulting as I think illegal hunting has been clearly condemned by all in this thread. To be honest I'm not surprised why so many "pro-hunt" posters don't wish to contributing further.

 

[stangs]

Good that people are keeping this thread up-to-date with news, but why expect “pro-hunt” folk to join in when their arguments tend to get misrepresented, especially when they’re not arguing for any illegal activity, but rather providing context and a different point-of-view on rural lifestyles?

 

[moosea]

At no point did I say anything of the sort. My comments are regarding a certain poster continuing to demand responses from those they have labelled pro-hunt when I am unsure what more we can possibly say that has not already been said, many times throughout this thread. To continue to label us "pro-hunt" is at best tedious and at worst insulting as I think illegal hunting has been clearly condemned by all in this thread. To be honest I'm not surprised why so many "pro-hunt" posters don't wish to contributing further.

I think it's quite common to call someone 'pro' if they support hunting and 'anti' if they don't.

That's not to say the pro hunt posters would support illegal activities - just that they support hunting in one form or another.

 

[Gallop_Away]

I think it's quite common to call someone 'pro' if they support hunting and 'anti' if they don't.

That's not to say the pro hunt posters would support illegal activities - just that they support hunting in one form or another.

With respect if you look back through the thread you will see the aggression and rudeness this particular poster has directed at those they call pro-hunt so I think it's quite clear how they feel towards us and the intent behind continuing to call us pro hunt.

Also, why would those of us who hunt LEGALLY and have condemned illegal hunting over and over in this thread, need to continue to comment further on the matter? Why continue to expect a response unless this poster once again is hoping for an argument which they seem to relish.

 

[ycbm]

Can I just gently point out that there's no need to answer?

I would like to know how those who would support a return to legal fox hunting feel about a return to legal cubbing (for killing, not dispersal).

Again, no need to answer of people don't want to.
.

 

[Sandstone1]

Well as pro is the opposite of anti in this context what else would you like me to call people who would like a return to hunting with hounds?
I would only be interested in their thoughts on the video of obvious cubbing, thats all.
No one needs to answer if they do not wish too.
In fact I have remembered I have most of the most prolific pro hunters on UI anyway!
I just find it disgusting that the Warwickshire continue clearly cubbing, clearly breaking the law as if the ban never happened.
Whats the justification for that if they do not think they are above the law?
They are not following a trail, thats obvious. Fox hunting is bad enough but cubbing is disgusting and I would question the mental state of people that want to do it.
People can answer or not as they wish. I just want to bring it to peoples attention that this is still happening.

 

[Sandstone1]

With respect if you look back through the thread you will see the aggression and rudeness this particular poster has directed at those they call pro-hunt so I think it's quite clear how they feel towards us and the intent behind continuing to call us pro hunt.

Also, why would those of us who hunt LEGALLY and have condemned illegal hunting over and over in this thread, need to continue to comment further on the matter? Why continue to expect a response unless this poster once again is hoping for an argument which they seem to relish.

As I said do not answer unless you wish. You probably have no answer to that video other than its illegal hunting. I do not relish a argument as you put it. I just want to bring it to peoples attention that this vile and disgusting "sport" is still going on as much as people bang on about trail and legal hunting. Yes some trail hunting happens and I have no problem with legal trail and drag hunting at all.... Except when its used as a smokescreen for hunting and cubbing as in this video. I was simply interested in how certain people would try to justify the actions of this hunt. Do you think this should be swept under the carpet and allowed to continue? No need to answer if you do not want to. I am not talking about legal trail hunting here. I am talking about clear and blatant cub hunting by the warwickshire hunt as seen in this video.
I am not aggressive and rude as you accuse me of. I just do not like clear and blatant breaking of the law.
Why is it seen as rude to call out a illegal and cruel activity? Please get this straight in your head. I am talking about illegal hunting here. Not drag hunting not genuine trail hunting. I have no problem with that at all. What I do have a big problem with is illegal hunting and the sort of trail hunting used as a smokescreen for fox hunting.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Can I just gently point out that there's no need to answer?

I would like to know how those who would support a return to legal fox hunting feel about a return to legal cubbing (for killing, not dispersal).

Again, no need to answer of people don't want to.
.

I understand that but it is again tedious when this poster gleefully claims our silence is assumed to mean that we support this horrible practice. Surely you can understand why we feel the need to correct such a statement.

In any event I had this poster on UF so I'm unsure why they have suddenly reappeared. I will be placing them back on UF as I find them particularly unpleasant and so won't be commenting on this issue any further.

 

[Sandstone1]

I understand that but it is again tedious when this poster gleefully claims our silence is assumed to mean that we support this horrible practice. Surely you can understand why we feel the need to correct such a statement.

In any event I had this poster on UF so I'm unsure why they have suddenly reappeared. I will be placing them back on UF as I find them particularly unpleasant and so won't be commenting on this issue any further.

As I had you on UI so I am not sure why you popped up either. You have not in fact corrected any statement as I did not ever say you supported it?? I find hunting and hunters extremely unpleasant and the people that support it. Back on UI you go. As for "WE" is that the royal we or are you just speaking for others without their consent? Again do not bother to reply as I will not see it anyway.

 

[Regandal]

Why would you expect pro-legal hunting people to defend blatantly illegal hunting???

 

[ycbm]

Why would you expect pro-legal hunting people to defend blatantly illegal hunting???

I don't want to put words in Sandstone's mouth but I don't think she does. I think she is actually asking, maybe too provocatively, the same question as me. "For those who want to see a return to legal fox hunting, do you also wish to see a return to legal cub hunting of the type the Warwickshire have been caught doing?"

I can competely understand why nobody who does think it's right to train young hounds to kill by trapping young foxes inside a covert would dare try and explain why they think that, in the face of what will undoubtedly be huge hostility.

I can't understand why anyone who is pro legal fox hunting but against the killing version of cub hunting wouldn't be OK to say so.

 

[Tiddlypom]

On a change of tack, the New Forest Hounds have completed their transition from trail (fox scent) hunting to hunting the clean boot ie following a human runner for the 2022/3 season.

https://www.foxhuntinglife.com/news...st-hounds-have-converted-to-a-bloodhound-pack

They have needed to switch their hounds from foxhounds to bloodhounds to do this.

The NFH were, post the webinar leaks, no longer permitted to trail hunt on Forestry England owned land so had lost all their country.

I wish them all the best with this new venture - which might well be the only way forward for hunting with hounds if the governing body of hunting doesn't pull its finger out and deal with the law breaking packs still operating under its umbrella. Or even if it does.

Adapt or fail.

 

[Sandstone1]

I don't want to put words in Sandstone's mouth but I don't think she does. I think she is actually asking, maybe too provocatively, the same question as me. "For those who want to see a return to legal fox hunting, do you also wish to see a return to legal cub hunting of the type the Warwickshire have been caught doing?"

I can competely understand why nobody who does think it's right to train young hounds to kill by trapping young foxes inside a covert would dare try and explain why they think that, in the face of what will undoubtedly be huge hostility.

I can't understand why anyone who is pro legal fox hunting but against the killing version of cub hunting wouldn't be OK to say so.

Thank you, that is pretty much what I do mean.

 

[moosea]

With respect if you look back through the thread you will see the aggression and rudeness this particular poster has directed at those they call pro-hunt so I think it's quite clear how they feel towards us and the intent behind continuing to call us pro hunt.

With respect, if you choose to support a 'sport' where illegal activity which includes killing animals with packs of dogs, is common place ( as seen on this thread with video evidence and news reports) then you really can't expect people not to be angry with people who support the legal activities not coming out to shout very loudly when illegal activity occurs.
Perhaps the lack of voice from pro hunters (legal hunting ) is why nothing ever changes. Perhaps if you boycotted hunts caught engaging in illegal activities then the hunting hierachy may take a bit more notice??

Also, why would those of us who hunt LEGALLY and have condemned illegal hunting over and over in this thread, need to continue to comment further on the matter? Why continue to expect a response unless this poster once again is hoping for an argument which they seem to relish.

Because most 'normal' people who were associated with a sport so intent on self destruction would be the ones posting the videos and telling people how disgusting that behaviour is?

 

[Sandstone1]

With respect, if you choose to support a 'sport' where illegal activity which includes killing animals with packs of dogs, is common place ( as seen on this thread with video evidence and news reports) then you really can't expect people not to be angry with people who support the legal activities not coming out to shout very loudly when illegal activity occurs.
Perhaps the lack of voice from pro hunters (legal hunting ) is why nothing ever changes. Perhaps if you boycotted hunts caught engaging in illegal activities then the hunting hierachy may take a bit more notice


Because most 'normal' people who were associated with a sport so intent on self destruction would be the ones posting the videos and telling people how disgusting that behaviour is?

Quite.

 

[stangs]

Perhaps if you boycotted hunts caught engaging in illegal activities then the hunting hierachy may take a bit more notice??

Presuming Gallop_Away doesn’t live in Warwickshire and ride with their hunt, they can’t boycott a hunt anymore than you or I could.

Unfortunately, there’s not much that an outsider can do about a hunt breaking the law.

 

[moosea]

Presuming Gallop_Away doesn’t live in Warwickshire and ride with their hunt, they can’t boycott a hunt anymore than you or I could.

Unfortunately, there’s not much that an outsider can do about a hunt breaking the law.

Yes, that's why I'm suggesting that it's time those inside took some action, before it's too late.

Obviously it would need to be people local to the offending hunt that would boycott that particular hunt. If all of the hunters in this thread are a typical group then their posts make it appear that a majority of those who wish to continue to hunt legally are strongly against illegal hunting. If that is the case then that majority should be taking action and calling out the illegal actions and demanding some form of reprimand and supervised change.