Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Millionwords]

Then why quote me?

as I said in an earlier post, folk say hunts condem things like this, and claim there is all this hand-wringing, but nothing ever changes. Those hunts those governing bodies make no move to do anything.

It wasn't aimed at you, its just you said what many folk say. Exactly as they always do when any incident is made public.

 

[suestowford]

If the law-abiding packs are in the majority, then why does the governing body not act against the renegades? I can't understand this, unless they are secretly anti-hunt and working by subterfuge to discredit the sport they claim to love.

 

[Koweyka]

Matrix. Photo from owner's facebook page

View attachment 102848

Heartbreaking, if you take a pack of 25 plus dogs which have been trained to hunt and the huntsman cannot call them off in a second, or the second they start to speak especially when “not on a trail” then that hunt should not ever be allowed out again. This is all down to the incompetent huntsman and the way they are trained.

 

[moosea]

Cats do get killed by dogs. Sometimes it is an accident. Dogs should be well enough trained not to attack inappropriately and if they do, in a pack situation, what you can do at that very minute is limited.

I think people understand that in the heat of the attack it can be difficult to call dogs off.

It's the response, or lack of, afterwards that shocks people. And the unending defence of the people, who must be incapable, continuing to take a group of trained hunting dogs out off lead when they can't control them.

I accept you’ve only owned one dog and it is a pet breed (no problem with that) but many people with lurchers, GSD’s, bullies, etc have animals that may, if it all went wrong, attack a cat. As I said above my pet lurcher killed another dog. It was really, really awful.

I fostered over 20 GSD's in a 2 year period. None of them killed a cat. None of them went off lead until they were trained in enclosed spaces. None of them ran into roads or killed wildlife.
If you own an animal who killed another persons pet, it's your fault. Rather than not looking your dog in the eye you probably should have avoided mirrors, for the blame lies with you.

 

[Millionwords]

I think people understand that in the heat of the attack it can be difficult to call dogs off.

It's the response, or lack of, afterwards that shocks people. And the unending defence of the people, who must be incapable, continuing to take a group of trained hunting dogs out off lead when they can't control them.



I fostered over 20 GSD's in a 2 year period. None of them killed a cat. None of them went off lead until they were trained in enclosed spaces. None of them ran into roads or killed wildlife.
If you own an animal who killed another persons pet, it's your fault. Rather than not looking your dog in the eye you probably should have avoided mirrors, for the blame lies with you.

l often agree with points @Clodagh makes, so I was a bit shocked at how accusatory this post sounds, so I didn't want to "like" it. However since my dog has been attacked several times by breeds folk should realise can't be trusted (long dog and staffie) and also those deemed "soft" (pointer and black lab) can any dog be trusted? That's down to being able to read all the incredibly subtle cues an owner should understand when being guardian of a dog. If they can't do that it should be on a lead. (This is not aimed at an individual).
I have a XJRT who i let the husband walk grudgingly, he is not a biter (dog not husband)....he has never even nipped anyone, however he's a gobshite who cannot be trusted not to frighten other people into thinking he won't bite. (Despite shitting himself if a cat he's been barking at gets too close)

That is my/EVERY dog owners responsibility, why is it not the hunts?

Is that because they arent hunting trails and still require such prey drive so haven't bred it out as much as they should? The same consequences should apply to hunts as public.

 

[YorksG]

Regarding prey drive, I don't think that it is breed specific, one rottweiler that had zero, one who had very high prey drive. One lab out of many that chased poultry (ours, so not a danger to others as was not allowed near others). Two jrts from ratting parents, no prey drive at all.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I'm so utterly sick of this. How many more innocent lives will be lost before hunting is FINALLY banned?

Hounds riot every. single. year. They riot on livestock, pets and wildlife. Every year I just wait for the inevitable videos and news reports to emerge.

As a cat owner, if something like this happened to my cat, it would drive me to the deepest depression. Just thinking about it has me on the edge of tears. Imagining the fear and pain that Matrix suffered is absolutely awful. His humans will carry this pain for the rest of their lives.

Having a loose pack of dogs is DANGEROUS, period. It's mad that it is still allowed in these times.

#justiceformatrix

 

[moosea]

l often agree with points @Clodagh makes, so I was a bit shocked at how accusatory this post sounds, so I didn't want to "like" it. However since my dog has been attacked several times by breeds folk should realise can't be trusted (long dog and staffie) and also those deemed "soft" (pointer and black lab) can any dog be trusted? That's down to being able to read all the incredibly subtle cues an owner should understand when being guardian of a dog. If they can't do that it should be on a lead. (This is not aimed at an individual).
I have a XJRT who i let the husband walk grudgingly, he is not a biter (dog not husband)....he has never even nipped anyone, however he's a gobshite who cannot be trusted not to frighten other people into thinking he won't bite. (Despite shitting himself if a cat he's been barking at gets too close)

That is my/EVERY dog owners responsibility, why is it not the hunts?

Is that because they arent hunting trails and still require such prey drive so haven't bred it out as much as they should? The same consequences should apply to hunts as public.

That's because I am accusing. Accusing anyone who allows their dog to attack and kill or maim another animal - it's the owners or person directly in charge of that dog/ those dogs responsibility to makes sure that does not happen.

 

[Soap On A Rope]

Oh my life ??
Grow up people

 

[claracanter]

Nothing to add other than how utterly horrific the hit and run was. I am genuinely concerned that one day someone is going to be killed from either side of the divide. Things are so tense between hunts and sand someone has to find a sensible way forward.

 

[Fred66]

Nothing to add other than how utterly horrific the hit and run was. I am genuinely concerned that one day someone is going to be killed from either side of the divide. Things are so tense between hunts and sand someone has to find a sensible way forward.

At least one person has already been killed.

 

[Millionwords]

Oh my life ??
Grow up people

A very considered and insightul response to the discusson.

Although I'm not surprised as it was you who at the news of the sab being purposefully run over said you "hope it taught her a lesson".

Speaks volumes about your humanity.

 

[TheresaW]

That's because I am accusing. Accusing anyone who allows their dog to attack and kill or maim another animal - it's the owners or person directly in charge of that dog/ those dogs responsibility to makes sure that does not happen.

We had a cat years ago who came in one night with a completely de-gloved tail, and puncture wounds in his back legs. I suspect he’d been in the greyhounds garden several houses away.

One of our dogs we have now would quite possibly kill a cat if she caught one in our garden. I always check out of the window before I let them out as we do have the odd cat visit.

I also had a friend who’s small dog was ripped apart by greyhounds whilst she was out walking. Her dog was on a lead.

I have nothing personally against Greyhounds btw.

 

[Clodagh]

@moosea Not that I owe you any explanations but my lurcher was the softest dog. In our farmyard two family members dogs had a fight over a rabbit they had killed and lurcher joined in. Her being involved enabled the lab to cause a bad enough wound to kill the hound. The lurcher herself didn’t have enough strength in get haws to do any damage, but she got in the way.
the lab and hound had been fighting coming up to this incident ( I didn’t know that at the time).
I’m pleased no dog you have has ever put a foot wrong but my post, while I appreciate I’m in a very poor light, was to illustrate that accidents happen.

 

[Peglo]

@moosea Not that I owe you any explanations but my lurcher was the softest dog. In our farmyard two family members dogs had a fight over a rabbit they had killed and lurcher joined in. Her being involved enabled the lab to cause a bad enough wound to kill the hound. The lurcher herself didn’t have enough strength in get haws to do any damage, but she got in the way.
the lab and hound had been fighting coming up to this incident ( I didn’t know that at the time).
I’m pleased no dog you have has ever put a foot wrong but my post, while I appreciate I’m in a very poor light, was to illustrate that accidents happen.

i have absolutely no doubt that anyone with animals has made a mistake or 2 along the way but many has been fortunate that no serious damage was done but learnt a lesson. Your story sounds like a tragic accident and must’ve been really hard to deal with. I’m not sure how you could’ve known that could be the outcome but people do love to blame others.

so heartbroken for the poor family of matrix. Just horrible! And unforgivable in my view.

 

[Koweyka]

I don’t think any of us are “perfect” pet owners and mistakes sometimes happen, however it’s a world away from a huge pack of hounds being taken into the countryside and pretty much left loose to go “sniff out a scent” usually an animal based scent and I have seen so many times that once they pick up either the huntsman doesn’t stop them or he can’t stop them.

It’s like a sick game of Russian Roulette in the countryside with pets and wildlife the collateral damage.

 

[Koweyka]

A very considered and insightul response to the discusson.

Although I'm not surprised as it was you who at the news of the sab being purposefully run over said you "hope it taught her a lesson".

Speaks volumes about your humanity.

Wow ! I missed that response….she/it was probably driving the car judging by that response!

 

[Sandstone1]

I dont know what UI is, but I think they should reply, I just posted 3 different things from the last couple of weeks, apparently all of these types of incident are rare, but if there are hundreds of hunts, most not sabbed and the ones that are have more incidents such as, police involvement, kills, violence, pet killing, arson (thunderflashes), trespass onto train lines, killed hounds, car collisions, getting into gardens, etc etc etc...then its not uncommon, or unusual, the hunting season has only just got going proper...and there are already more wrongdoing incidents committed by hunts than there are to be found about sabs.

UI means that I have put them on ignore so I can not see their posts. I am just so sick of seeing the absolute rubbish they post.
I am sick of trail hunting being spoken about when in reality a lot of illegal fox hunting is still going on. My local hunt makes little attempt to even pretend they are trail hunting and quite openly hunts foxes often along side busy roads. If people really want trail hunting to continue they should be out protesting against fox hunting because the way things are going all trail hunting will all be banned soon and they will have the arrogant, stubborn and quite frankly ignorance of people who support fox hunting to blame.

How long can they continue to pretend they are trail hunting when in reality they are carrying on as they did pre ban?
How many times can they kill peoples pets, terrify livestock, trespass on land, cause chaos on the roads and railway lines, upset landowners and have their supporters assault people who have the nerve to protest about what they are doing.
People will say sabs do this and that as well. I have no doubt there are faults on both sides but sabs are protesting about a illegal activity. If hunts are doing nothing wrong why are they so worried about sabs? They can not film any wrong doings if they are not doing anything wrong.

 

[Soap On A Rope]

A very considered and insightul response to the discusson.

Although I'm not surprised as it was you who at the news of the sab being purposefully run over said you "hope it taught her a lesson".

Speaks volumes about your humanity.

I actually said I hope it teaches RENT A SAB a lesson !
NOT the girl personally !!!

 

[Millionwords]

I actually said I hope it teaches RENT A SAB a lesson !
NOT the girl personally !!!

Oh that's alright then ?

Imagine publicly supporting a driver who tried to kill someone and thinking it was a reasonable attitude to have. Then wondering why anti hunters despise hunters so often??

 

[palo1]

Oh that's alright then ?

Imagine publicly supporting a driver who tried to kill someone and thinking it was a reasonable attitude to have. Then wondering why anti hunters despise hunters so often??

I don't and can't defend what @Soap On A Rope said upthread (though sabs were paid in the past and may well still be lol) but you have to accept that anti hunting groups have absolutely been as unpleasant and far more so in their own social media feeds (hoping people get cancer and die, celebrating the death of children etc) It isn't remotely constructive and just blooming well adds more misery and vitriol to the situation. The despite is on both sides because of the behaviour and attitudes that exist in places on both sides.

 

[Millionwords]

I don't and can't defend what @Soap On A Rope said upthread (though sabs were paid in the past and may well still be lol) but you have to accept that anti hunting groups have absolutely been as unpleasant and far more so in their own social media feeds (hoping people get cancer and die, celebrating the death of children etc) It isn't remotely constructive and just blooming well adds more misery and vitriol to the situation. The despite is on both sides because of the behaviour and attitudes that exist in places on both sides.

I agree with you @palo1, but thats not what we were talking about, and so should have no bearing on what SoAR said. Two wrongs don't make a right, everyone needs to be less horrible. Defending a person who tried to kill someone is inexcusable.

 

[Millionwords]

An ex hunt master carrying knives or implements sharp enough to slash tyres?

"
????? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????

... Grove and Rufford Hunt meet in Haxey...

With foot sabs keeping eyes on the hounds our vehicle was left with just a driver and nav on a public road to watch the hunt from a far. At this point ex master Gerrard Farmer and his thug mates arrived and used a knife to slash all four of our tyres.

Video of the incident to follow,

 

[sakura]

I'm so utterly sick of this. How many more innocent lives will be lost before hunting is FINALLY banned?

Hounds riot every. single. year. They riot on livestock, pets and wildlife. Every year I just wait for the inevitable videos and news reports to emerge.

As a cat owner, if something like this happened to my cat, it would drive me to the deepest depression. Just thinking about it has me on the edge of tears. Imagining the fear and pain that Matrix suffered is absolutely awful. His humans will carry this pain for the rest of their lives.

Having a loose pack of dogs is DANGEROUS, period. It's mad that it is still allowed in these times.

#justiceformatrix

100% this. Matrix is not the first and sadly won’t be the last. It has to end - and it will. I’d rather it be sooner rather than later.

 

[ycbm]

An ex hunt master carrying knives or implements sharp enough to slash tyres?

"
????? ??? ??????? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?????

... Grove and Rufford Hunt meet in Haxey...

With foot sabs keeping eyes on the hounds our vehicle was left with just a driver and nav on a public road to watch the hunt from a far. At this point ex master Gerrard Farmer and his thug mates arrived and used a knife to slash all four of our tyres.

Video of the incident to follow,

That's them on criminal damage charges then, hopefully. Maybe knife carrying offences too.
.

 

[paddy555]

I accept you’ve only owned one dog and it is a pet breed (no problem with that) but many people with lurchers, GSD’s, bullies, etc have animals that may, if it all went wrong, attack a cat. As I said above my pet lurcher killed another dog. It was really, really awful.

I have a GSD, yes I am aware he is a big dog and has the potential to attack a cat or anything else. As I am a responsible dog owner I take that very seriously and keep the creature on a lead and under control as all times. If he goes out of the gate he is leaded. Just in case the lead fails he has a second lead on back onto my waistband. He is very strictly controlled at all times. Obviously somewhat better controlled than the control of hunts over their hounds.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I have a GSD, yes I am aware he is a big dog and has the potential to attack a cat or anything else. As I am a responsible dog owner I take that very seriously and keep the creature on a lead and under control as all times. If he goes out of the gate he is leaded. Just in case the lead fails he has a second lead on back onto my waistband. He is very strictly controlled at all times. Obviously somewhat better controlled than the control of hunts over their hounds.

Thank you for being such a responsible dog owner. Accidents happen, but many could also be avoided if dogs were kept on leads.

I was not scared of dogs until I was attacked by one last year. Now I feel my heart racing whenever I see a dog off lead.

The other day I saw a lady in a park walking multiple dogs (potentially a paid dog walker) and a man was approaching her direction with an off leash dog. The loose dog made a beeline for the others and I could hear the lady shouting to him to call if off.

The man was extremely casual about the whole thing and strolled over slowly - from what I could see his dog was just overly excited, but the lady sounded stressed and her four dogs were in a tizzy.

I can understand wanting freedom for your dog, but it seems that altercations between other dogs are all too common. A local dog had to have an eye removed due to being attacked by another dog in the same park.

If these kind of accidents can happen very easily with a single off leash dog, I don't see how a whole pack of dogs could possibly be considered safe, especially in today's ever increasing population.

I'm still haunted by the news reports from several years ago of the outdoor cat sanctuary that was broken into by a group of hounds (chasing a deer in this instance I believe), several cats were killed. These were all cats with very traumatic backgrounds, the sanctuary was supposed to be their eden. I can't think of any other 'sport' which is so destructive as hunting.

 

[sakura]

I accept you’ve only owned one dog and it is a pet breed (no problem with that) but many people with lurchers, GSD’s, bullies, etc have animals that may, if it all went wrong, attack a cat. As I said above my pet lurcher killed another dog. It was really, really awful.

I own a highly reactive working sheepdog. She is walked on a lead at all times in public to keep others and herself safe. If an unknown dog is around her, she will also be on a lead or separated until safe - even in the house. It’s much harder than owning a “pet” breed but that’s what I signed up for.

There is never an excuse for out of control dogs, especially a pack of them.

 

[Koweyka]

The Warwickshire Hunt ….killing again.

https://fb.watch/gWZunVk9tf/

 

[Sandstone1]

The warwickshire. Trail hunting again????