Hunting is in a spot of bother

[sbloom]

As a marker of how salient this discussion is, that we're not the only people talking about it, an indication that hunting really is in trouble, especially considering all the other "more important" issues our country faces, LBC dedicated two.seoarate hours, at least, to the topic the other day.

This whole thread, everything we are discussing, and the rest of equestrianism and its issues with how we treat horses and other animals, makes me wonder why equestrians can't understand that if they don't do better they may face a time when we can no longer ride horses?

Rhetorical question, more an expression of surprise, as it typically can be, than a genuine attempt to start a discussion on this specific point.

 

[Millionwords]

All discussion about words aside, this seems to have gone unnoticed in this thread.
The Hunt running people over AGAIN?

And SIXTEEN hunt supporters reacted with a laughing emoji to the original....

Comments such as:

May of been on land were they was not allowed ? ?

just thugs that’s all they are, bullies really they also intimidate little kids, thugs mate, ?? tally ho , we’re legal the sabs ain’t

if you were a farmer would you like a fox killing your livestock etc. No you wouldn't. So why shouldn't people kill foxes etc. If your deem the harmless animals.

 

[sakura]

As a marker of how salient this discussion is, that we're not the only people talking about it, an indication that hunting really is in trouble, especially considering all the other "more important" issues our country faces, LBC dedicated two.seoarate hours, at least, to the topic the other day.

This whole thread, everything we are discussing, and the rest of equestrianism and its issues with how we treat horses and other animals, makes me wonder why equestrians can't understand that if they don't do better they may face a time when we can no longer ride horses?

Rhetorical question, more an expression of surprise, as it typically can be, than a genuine attempt to start a discussion on this specific point.

Perfectly put!

Do better, or lose it all.

 

[Koweyka]

And SIXTEEN hunt supporters reacted with a laughing emoji to the original....

Comments such as:

May of been on land were they was not allowed ? ?

just thugs that’s all they are, bullies really they also intimidate little kids, thugs mate, ?? tally ho , we’re legal the sabs ain’t

if you were a farmer would you like a fox killing your livestock etc. No you wouldn't. So why shouldn't people kill foxes etc. If your deem the harmless animals.

Also the monitors that go to the South Dorset hunt, where just last week a 77 yr old monitor was beaten around the head with an iron bar by two hunt thugs, also had 17 tyres slashed on Xmas Day to stop them going to the hunt.

Also no mention of the member of the public taken to hospital after she was trying to keep the hounds killing her cat.

The two members of the public who were held up in traffic waiting for the hunt to leave, obviously looked a certain “way” and had their tyres slashed.

A member of the public had their windscreen smashed by the huntsman.

The sab run over by the quad is sickening.

These are just off the top of my head from the last few days, yet the Countryside Alliance was making a huge effort, sending memo’s about catching Sabs up to no good, they need to look at themselves.

 

[scats]

I can’t help but feel now, that due to the behaviour from both sides of the fence, any form of hunting should be banned. Too many hunts have proved that they can’t hunt within the legal boundaries and too many sabs think they can take the law into their own hands. We haven’t got the police resources to deal with this ridiculousness. Shut the lot of them up and ban it.

 

[FestiveG]

I can’t help but feel now, that due to the behaviour from both sides of the fence, any form of hunting should be banned. Too many hunts have proved that they can’t hunt within the legal boundaries and too many sabs think they can take the law into their own hands. We haven’t got the police resources to deal with this ridiculousness. Shut the lot of them up and ban it.

Interesting view point that because sabs think they can take the law into their own hands, that hunting should end. That rather suggests that any activity which "attracts" violent opposition, should be made illegal. To my mind that will encourage violence in those opposed to all sorts of legal activities.

 

[scats]

Interesting view point that because sabs think they can take the law into their own hands, that hunting should end. That rather suggests that any activity which "attracts" violent opposition, should be made illegal. To my mind that will encourage violence in those opposed to all sorts of legal activities.

Fair point, I didn’t see it like that. But I simply find the whole thing ridiculous. By allowing ‘legal’ hunting, it’s virtually impossible to police when it tips over into illegal hunting. So the sabs take it into their own hands. People are getting injured, police resources and time are being taken up. The only way I can see the situation being stopped is to ban all hunting.
I’m not an anti-hunt, for what it’s worth, I actually used to support the Wynnstay hunt.

Saying that, it’s not just the sabs behaviour is it? It’s also the behaviour of the hunts.

 

[Lulwind]

Also the monitors that go to the South Dorset hunt, where just last week a 77 yr old monitor was beaten around the head with an iron bar by two hunt thugs, also had 17 tyres slashed on Xmas Day to stop them going to the hunt.

Also no mention of the member of the public taken to hospital after she was trying to keep the hounds killing her cat.

The two members of the public who were held up in traffic waiting for the hunt to leave, obviously looked a certain “way” and had their tyres slashed.

A member of the public had their windscreen smashed by the huntsman.

The sab run over by the quad is sickening.

These are just off the top of my head from the last few days, yet the Countryside Alliance was making a huge effort, sending memo’s about catching Sabs up to no good, they need to look at themselves.

Are your initials HN? BTW it was 19 tyres. You seem to have forgotten about a certain court case involving a sab?

 

[Thundering]

Interesting view point that because sabs think they can take the law into their own hands, that hunting should end. That rather suggests that any activity which "attracts" violent opposition, should be made illegal. To my mind that will encourage violence in those opposed to all sorts of legal activities.

But hunting the way its happening in a lot of cases is not legal. In far far to many cases its not trail hunting at all and until people are honest about that then all hunting is at risk. Hunting people need to be honest.

 

[FestiveG]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

 

[AmyMay]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

Obviously ??‍

 

[scats]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

Totally. But the situation has changed now and not all forms of hunting are legal. We can only act on the situation we are in now, not keep harking back to the past. This is where we are and this is what is happening.

 

[paddy555]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

and the hunt at that time behaved extremely violently towards the sabs. I watched 2 mounted riders seriously whip a sab to the ground and then some when they thought they were out of sight.
I picked another sab up off the road covered in blood, I didn't support the sabs and certainly not the hunt but I could hardly leave someone lying on the ground covered in blood as the hunt were doing.

.

 

[sakura]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

Sure, but it doesn’t change the also despicable behaviour of hunts and the fact that all hunting will likely be banned before too long. I don’t think anyone here are praising sabs.

 

[rextherobber]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

I live and work rurally, the only intimidating, aggressive and obstructive behaviour I have ever encountered has been from the Hunt and it's supporters, both mounted and car followers. The only damage to my property has been from hounds destroying fencing, the only distress to my livestock has been caused by hounds being where they have no right to be, with the huntsman 30 minutes behind them. I don't think I have ever seen any saboteurs, although cannot say for sure as I am often not the only vehicle held up by idiotic parking etc.

 

[rabatsa]

Why do both hunt supporters and sabs remind me of football fans?

 

[L&M]

I can’t help but feel now, that due to the behaviour from both sides of the fence, any form of hunting should be banned. Too many hunts have proved that they can’t hunt within the legal boundaries and too many sabs think they can take the law into their own hands. We haven’t got the police resources to deal with this ridiculousness. Shut the lot of them up and ban it.

Couldn't agree more - and from a once avid hunter who is now totally fed up and disillusioned by the whole situation.

You can't defend the indefensible, and that applies to both hunting folk and the antis.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Fair point, I didn’t see it like that. But I simply find the whole thing ridiculous. By allowing ‘legal’ hunting, it’s virtually impossible to police when it tips over into illegal hunting. So the sabs take it into their own hands. People are getting injured, police resources and time are being taken up. The only way I can see the situation being stopped is to ban all hunting.
I’m not an anti-hunt, for what it’s worth, I actually used to support the Wynnstay hunt.

Saying that, it’s not just the sabs behaviour is it? It’s also the behaviour of the hunts.

Well put.

The record here when the local pack was still trying to front it out and carry on fox hunting despite the antis being right on them was 8 or 9 police cars plus a police helicopter all out at once tied up policing the hunt/anti interface. Absolute madness given how limited police resources are. That was a small number of years ago.

 

[Millionwords]

Well put.

The record here when the local pack was still trying to front it out and carry on fox hunting despite the antis being right on them was 8 or 9 police cars plus a police helicopter all out at once tied up policing the hunt/anti interface. Absolute madness given how limited police resources are. That was a small number of years ago.

Ive heard tale of that, was it the M&SS?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Ive heard tale of that, was it the M&SS?

No, another pack.

 

[Millionwords]

No, another pack.

Well thats two with a similar amount of police resources wasted then!?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Well thats two with a similar amount of police resources wasted then!?

Yes ?.

I saw the helicopter circling and some of the police vehicles on the day. IIRC there was a false allegation of a firearm being seen.

 

[millikins]

May i remind people that sabs existed and behaved violently, while all hunting was still legal?

I was evacuated from my home in the mid 80's because sabs had put a bomb, yes a real one, under what they thought was the hunt supporting farrier's car. It wasn't, it was his neighbour who unknowingly picked up the sports bag and moved it aside, thank goodness it didn't go off but we had the full Army bomb disposal team out.

 

[Millionwords]

It always amazes me how the pro hunt (which i too was) will defend tooth and nail reasons for hunting, words "taken out of context", long winded explanations of surrounding issues, BUT
With the several unarguable incidents like this one, prosecutions, bullying footage, pet killing footage, assault footage...go very quiet.

They should be banging down the doors of their governing bodies, demanding hunts be suspended, rallying for change, forcing these "bad apples" (which there seem to be a Cartload of) out to stop the fall of the sport they support.

Yet they are quiet...hand wringing, hoping it will blow over, be forgotten, or blaming sabs and saying "yes, but...." is that the actions of those who continually claim to want change?


Speaks volumes.

Eta; not just here, but also in general.

I do find it intensely irritating there has been little more than the odd brief peep from the usual pro hunt posters over any of the earlier or more recent incidents for weeks.
Although its hard to defend the indefensible.

 

[ycbm]

I do find it intensely irritating there has been little more than the odd brief peep from the usual pro hunt posters over any of the earlier or more recent incidents for weeks.
Although its hard to defend the indefensible.

I think this is a bit silly MW, pointlessly provocational and devalues the discussion.

The pro legal hunting people have stated over and over that this behaviour is wrong. There is no need for them to keep repeating it for every incident you list.
.

 

[ycbm]

I was evacuated from my home in the mid 80's because sabs had put a bomb, yes a real one, under what they thought was the hunt supporting farrier's car. It wasn't, it was his neighbour who unknowingly picked up the sports bag and moved it aside, thank goodness it didn't go off but we had the full Army bomb disposal team out.

This incident is only 30 years old, not 40 years ago, and the bomb went off in this case.

HSA news release 2nd October 1994
On Sunday the 2nd of October 1994 an explosive device was placed on or underneath the car of a well known member of the Three Shires Hunt Saboteurs who lives in Milton Keynes. The device exploded at around 09:00, destroying the underside of the vehicle. The timing and nature of the device was such that no consideration was shown to members of the public in the immediate area which on a Sunday morning would have included children.
.

 

[Millionwords]

I think this is a bit silly MW, pointlessly provocational and devalues the discussion.

The pro legal hunting people have stated over and over that this behaviour is wrong. There is no need for them to keep repeating it for every incident you list.
.

That may be...it is not just a statement about people on this forum however; is there nothing that hunts or individuals are doing? Writing to the governing bodies demanding action as a hunt, or as a hunt member, organising other hunts into action,cracking down on their followers behaviour, ousting the perpetrators, something so they are not complicit in their silence?

 

[ycbm]

That may be...it is not just a statement about people on this forum however; is there nothing that hunts or individuals are doing? Writing to the governing bodies demanding action as a hunt, or as a hunt member, organising other hunts into action,cracking down on their followers behaviour, ousting the perpetrators, something so they are not complicit in their silence?

You devalue the discussion by turning the forum into your personal campaign tool. We've been through all these arguments.
.

 

[HashRouge]

That may be...it is not just a statement about people on this forum however; is there nothing that hunts or individuals are doing? Writing to the governing bodies demanding action as a hunt, or as a hunt member, organising other hunts into action,cracking down on their followers behaviour, ousting the perpetrators, something so they are not complicit in their silence?

But you specifically referred to the "usual pro hunt posters". They've all said they don't support illegal actions by hunts or by sabs - they aren't trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[Miss_Millie]

As a marker of how salient this discussion is, that we're not the only people talking about it, an indication that hunting really is in trouble, especially considering all the other "more important" issues our country faces, LBC dedicated two.seoarate hours, at least, to the topic the other day.

This whole thread, everything we are discussing, and the rest of equestrianism and its issues with how we treat horses and other animals, makes me wonder why equestrians can't understand that if they don't do better they may face a time when we can no longer ride horses?

Rhetorical question, more an expression of surprise, as it typically can be, than a genuine attempt to start a discussion on this specific point.

This is one of the best comments on the entire thread.

I do think that a lot of horse people really take their right to own and ride horses for granted. I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth when I see people describe their horses on adverts with insults and swear words 'Little f***er', 'lazy little s**t' etc. I think there is a strong sense of entitlement with a lot of equestrians that their horse should do everything asked of it, and that any unwanted behaviours make that horse lazy, sour, moody. The majority of equestrians whip/hit their horses to punish/correct unwanted behaviours, which is so normalised, but ALL non-horsey people I know are mortified by this.

Most non-horsey people I know have a very bad impression of equestrians from the few things they have seen in real life and on TV, at the Olympics etc. And no, this isn't because they are ignorant...it's because they haven't been brainwashed from a young age to think that violence against horses is normal, whether that is hitting them or strapping their mouths shut with tack to the point that they can hardly breathe.

I predict that hunting will be banned when Labour inevitably come into power. Public opinion of hunting is at an all time low. Regular people are being affected, whether by roads being blocked by rioting hounds, or their pets being attacked when they enter their private property. Footage of illegal fox hunting is all over social media every year, for the whole world to see. The entitled attitude of pro-hunters 'because tradition' and 'you townies go back to the city where you belong' only strengthens the argument that those who hunt are entitled and arrogant.

As equestrians, we all need to do better. We must be open minded and question social norms. Just because something has 'always been done that way', doesn't mean it's the best way or the right way.

I will breathe a sigh of relief when hunting is finally laid to rest.