Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Sandstone1]

This is one of the best comments on the entire thread.

I do think that a lot of horse people really take their right to own and ride horses for granted. I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth when I see people describe their horses on adverts with insults and swear words 'Little f***er', 'lazy little s**t' etc. I think there is a strong sense of entitlement with a lot of equestrians that their horse should do everything asked of it, and that any unwanted behaviours make that horse lazy, sour, moody. The majority of equestrians whip/hit their horses to punish/correct unwanted behaviours, which is so normalised, but ALL non-horsey people I know are mortified by this.

Most non-horsey people I know have a very bad impression of equestrians from the few things they have seen in real life and on TV, at the Olympics etc. And no, this isn't because they are ignorant...it's because they haven't been brainwashed from a young age to think that violence against horses is normal, whether that is hitting them or strapping their mouths shut with tack to the point that they can hardly breathe.

I predict that hunting will be banned when Labour inevitably come into power. Public opinion of hunting is at an all time low. Regular people are being affected, whether by roads being blocked by rioting hounds, or their pets being attacked when they enter their private property. Footage of illegal fox hunting is all over social media every year, for the whole world to see. The entitled attitude of pro-hunters 'because tradition' and 'you townies go back to the city where you belong' only strengthens the argument that those who hunt are entitled and arrogant.

As equestrians, we all need to do better. We must be open minded and question social norms. Just because something has 'always been done that way', doesn't mean it's the best way or the right way.

I will breathe a sigh of relief when hunting is finally laid to rest.

I said I would not post on this thread again as its all been said really, just goes round in circles. However, I just had to say I agree 100% with this. If people on a forum such as this feel this way, how do you think other people feel who are not connected to horses or the countryside? As a horse owner and someone born and bred in the countryside I am embarrassed by the way some hunts and supporters behave. Lets just be honest about trail hunting being a smokescreen and not a very good one at that.

 

[sakura]

This is one of the best comments on the entire thread.

I do think that a lot of horse people really take their right to own and ride horses for granted. I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth when I see people describe their horses on adverts with insults and swear words 'Little f***er', 'lazy little s**t' etc. I think there is a strong sense of entitlement with a lot of equestrians that their horse should do everything asked of it, and that any unwanted behaviours make that horse lazy, sour, moody. The majority of equestrians whip/hit their horses to punish/correct unwanted behaviours, which is so normalised, but ALL non-horsey people I know are mortified by this.

Most non-horsey people I know have a very bad impression of equestrians from the few things they have seen in real life and on TV, at the Olympics etc. And no, this isn't because they are ignorant...it's because they haven't been brainwashed from a young age to think that violence against horses is normal, whether that is hitting them or strapping their mouths shut with tack to the point that they can hardly breathe.

I predict that hunting will be banned when Labour inevitably come into power. Public opinion of hunting is at an all time low. Regular people are being affected, whether by roads being blocked by rioting hounds, or their pets being attacked when they enter their private property. Footage of illegal fox hunting is all over social media every year, for the whole world to see. The entitled attitude of pro-hunters 'because tradition' and 'you townies go back to the city where you belong' only strengthens the argument that those who hunt are entitled and arrogant.

As equestrians, we all need to do better. We must be open minded and question social norms. Just because something has 'always been done that way', doesn't mean it's the best way or the right way.

I will breathe a sigh of relief when hunting is finally laid to rest.

????????????????

I actually couldn’t watch all of the London international horse show this year cos I was so uncomfortable with how normalised pulling and kicking and hitting horses in the name of sport is.

 

[NinjaPony]

As I keep thinking, if hunts are losing the support of people on a forum quite literally called Horse and Hound, just imagine what the rest of the country must think. I fear that hunts who have refused to follow the law or even just basic courtesy have dug the graves of those who do.

 

[Landcruiser]

I'm already getting stressed about the fact that the VWH are meeting within a mile of my property on 1st Feb. Their meet in November caused utter chaos locally, including when hounds crossed my land close to my yard, then passed the back of my stables in full cry - while my injured, rehabbing 3 yr old climbed the walls and went hysterical inside. Just why are these people allowed to tear around causing mayhem, damaging property, and causing stress and injury to humans, stock and wildlife? I feel that the non horsey public tar us all with the same brush (as has been discussed on on this thread). The antagonism from motorists that I/many of us experience is, I am sure, exacerbated by the idea that we are all rich entitled tw@ts toffs running around wherever we want to instead of staying in our own box.

 

[Sandstone1]

I'm already getting stressed about the fact that the VWH are meeting within a mile of my property on 1st Feb. Their meet in November caused utter chaos locally, including when hounds crossed my land close to my yard, then passed the back of my stables in full cry - while my injured, rehabbing 3 yr old climbed the walls and went hysterical inside. Just why are these people allowed to tear around causing mayhem, damaging property, and causing stress and injury to humans, stock and wildlife? I feel that the non horsey public tar us all with the same brush (as has been discussed on on this thread). The antagonism from motorists that I/many of us experience is, I am sure, exacerbated by the idea that we are all rich entitled tw@ts toffs running around wherever we want to instead of staying in our own box.

Can you email the hunt sec so you have a record of it and insist they do not cross your land? It probably will not make any difference but you will at least have a record of your request. Then should you have any problems you can take it further.

 

[Chianti]

????????????????

I actually couldn’t watch all of the London international horse show this year cos I was so uncomfortable with how normalised pulling and kicking and hitting horses in the name of sport is.

I put it on a couple of times but couldn't watch. That was both the dressage and the jumping.

 

[Landcruiser]

Can you email the hunt sec so you have a record of it and insist they do not cross your land? It probably will not make any difference but you will at least have a record of your request. Then should you have any problems you can take it further.

Already done!

 

[paddy555]

I'm already getting stressed about the fact that the VWH are meeting within a mile of my property on 1st Feb. Their meet in November caused utter chaos locally, including when hounds crossed my land close to my yard, then passed the back of my stables in full cry - while my injured, rehabbing 3 yr old climbed the walls and went hysterical inside. Just why are these people allowed to tear around causing mayhem, damaging property, and causing stress and injury to humans, stock and wildlife? I feel that the non horsey public tar us all with the same brush (as has been discussed on on this thread). The antagonism from motorists that I/many of us experience is, I am sure, exacerbated by the idea that we are all rich entitled tw@ts toffs running around wherever we want to instead of staying in our own box.

ring the master 3 or 4 days beforehand, explain what happened last time and what is wrong with your horse. Ask if he knows which is your land. When we had hounds come through our place and destroy the fence and very nearly my GSD ( or at least the neighbours sheep if he had followed the hounds) the master who I called out didn't even know who owned what and we had been here 40 years.

Ask him questions so from his replies you can be sure he knows which is your land and stables.

Ask which way they are going and approx what time they will go near your place. Tell him what you want ie no hounds , walking past you not cantering or whatever it is.
He may be an arrogant barsteward but OTOH he may be helpful if you have a chat with him. That is the approach I have now with our relatively new master. My horse needed an op at home and a quiet rehap. I rang to explain so I could book the op in around the hunt meets. He was a horseman, understood and was helpful and pleasant.

I find it works better if you can get a dialogue going with them. It doesn't make me any less anti but it does make things easier for my horses. Of course you may just find he is an arrogant git you have to tell in no uncertain terms but trying to get co operation is sometimes easier.

 

[dotty1]

I'm already getting stressed about the fact that the VWH are meeting within a mile of my property on 1st Feb. Their meet in November caused utter chaos locally, including when hounds crossed my land close to my yard, then passed the back of my stables in full cry - while my injured, rehabbing 3 yr old climbed the walls and went hysterical inside. Just why are these people allowed to tear around causing mayhem, damaging property, and causing stress and injury to humans, stock and wildlife? I feel that the non horsey public tar us all with the same brush (as has been discussed on on this thread). The antagonism from motorists that I/many of us experience is, I am sure, exacerbated by the idea that we are all rich entitled tw@ts toffs running around wherever we want to instead of staying in our own box.

The local hunt come to the local village approx every 3 weeks as most of the village think they’re great …..the whole yard has to keep horses in (16-20)….we are all just expected to pay for the extra hay, and mashed up bedding and extra journeys just so they can play. No one on the yard hunts.
My home bred is unrideable as when rehabbing from annular ligament op they let themselves into her field and galloped round it attempting to jump the electric fences and breaking them. She was stabled but went ballistic.
The roads are carnage, bridleways trashed, like you I don’t understand how they are allowed to do it, no other group of people would get away with holding up traffic on main roads and having dogs rampaging through private gardens and across roads.
When they are around I have to stay away as if I see them the red mist rises and my blood boils, I hate them so much
I hope for the day that is banned properly as the blatant disregard of the law makes me even madder, the fact that even if asked if coming our way they say that they don’t know proves it. Sadly I think only a tragic accident will make the police/government take notice of what a dangerous and outdated ‘sport’ it is.

 

[sbloom]

????????????????

I actually couldn’t watch all of the London international horse show this year cos I was so uncomfortable with how normalised pulling and kicking and hitting horses in the name of sport is.

I put it on a couple of times but couldn't watch. That was both the dressage and the jumping.

The last dressage I watched properly was 2004 Olympics but now I seldom watch any equestrian sport for these reasons. I just don't think it's something to aspire to, though completely understand, and won't ever berate (or judge I hope!) anyone for being seriously competition minded. I just try and encourage a different approach where possible to that where the horse, however well treated, is still a tool to do a job.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Just for my knowledge, why would a trail hunt using blood hounds start breeding fox hounds?

 

[Landcruiser]

ring the master 3 or 4 days beforehand, explain what happened last time and what is wrong with your horse. Ask if he knows which is your land. When we had hounds come through our place and destroy the fence and very nearly my GSD ( or at least the neighbours sheep if he had followed the hounds) the master who I called out didn't even know who owned what and we had been here 40 years.

Ask him questions so from his replies you can be sure he knows which is your land and stables.

Ask which way they are going and approx what time they will go near your place. Tell him what you want ie no hounds , walking past you not cantering or whatever it is.
He may be an arrogant barsteward but OTOH he may be helpful if you have a chat with him. That is the approach I have now with our relatively new master. My horse needed an op at home and a quiet rehap. I rang to explain so I could book the op in around the hunt meets. He was a horseman, understood and was helpful and pleasant.

I find it works better if you can get a dialogue going with them. It doesn't make me any less anti but it does make things easier for my horses. Of course you may just find he is an arrogant git you have to tell in no uncertain terms but trying to get co operation is sometimes easier.

Thank you for your reply. I had quite the dialogue going after the November incident, and have made it very clear that they are not to enter my land ever again(it's very clear where my boundaries are). Dialogue was re-opened prior to the next local meet in December (thankfully cancelled due to the freeze although my horses spent a day banged up inside as I didn't realise until late in the day that they'd cancelled). I will most certainly be getting it on record prior to Feb, although horses will have a precautionary pyjama day just in case. It's maddening.

 

[TGM]

Just for my knowledge, why would a trail hunt using blood hounds start breeding fox hounds?

That sounds odd as 'trail hunting' is something carried out by foxhound packs. I have heard of the opposite, where 'trail hunting' packs have switched from foxhounds to bloodhounds.

Have you got more information on this?

Just for extra clarity, as it does seem to get lost in these debates, some distinction between the three main types of hunting with hounds/horses in the UK at present:

'Trail hunting' undertaken by foxhound packs which switched to this practice after the Hunting Act came in. Carried out under the auspices of the Master of Foxhounds Association who were implicated in the 'smokescreen' seminars on trail hunting.

'Hunting the clean boot' or 'bloodhounding' using a pack of bloodhounds who chase the natural scent of human runners who set off about 20 minutes before the hounds. Most packs were formed and operating long before the Hunting Act. Comes under the auspices of the Masters of Draghounds and Bloodhounds Association.

'Drag hunting' who follow a 'dragged' artificial scent. Most drag packs were in existence before the Hunting Act. Comes under the auspices of the Masters of Draghounds and Bloodhounds Association.

 

[ycbm]

Trail hunts do not use bloodhounds. Bloodhounds hunt "the clean boot", a human runner.

Drag packs and trail packs are all foxhounds. Drags hunt an artificial scent. Trail packs use fox scent and then wonder why sabs don't trust them not to be hunting fox.
.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

That sounds odd as 'trail hunting' is something carried out by foxhound packs. I have heard of the opposite, where 'trail hunting' packs have switched from foxhounds to bloodhounds.

Have you got more information on this?

Just for extra clarity, as it does seem to get lost in these debates, some distinction between the three main types of hunting with hounds/horses in the UK at present:

'Trail hunting' undertaken by foxhound packs which switched to this practice after the Hunting Act came in. Carried out under the auspices of the Master of Foxhounds Association who were implicated in the 'smokescreen' seminars on trail hunting.

'Hunting the clean boot' or 'bloodhounding' using a pack of bloodhounds who chase the natural scent of human runners who set off about 20 minutes before the hounds. Most packs were formed and operating long before the Hunting Act. Comes under the auspices of the Masters of Draghounds and Bloodhounds Association.

'Drag hunting' who follow a 'dragged' artificial scent. Most drag packs were in existence before the Hunting Act. Comes under the auspices of the Masters of Draghounds and Bloodhounds Association.[/QUOTE

So sorry, its bloodhounding.

 

[lizziebell]

ring the master 3 or 4 days beforehand, explain what happened last time and what is wrong with your horse. Ask if he knows which is your land. When we had hounds come through our place and destroy the fence and very nearly my GSD ( or at least the neighbours sheep if he had followed the hounds) the master who I called out didn't even know who owned what and we had been here 40 years.

Ask him questions so from his replies you can be sure he knows which is your land and stables.

Ask which way they are going and approx what time they will go near your place. Tell him what you want ie no hounds , walking past you not cantering or whatever it is.
He may be an arrogant barsteward but OTOH he may be helpful if you have a chat with him. That is the approach I have now with our relatively new master. My horse needed an op at home and a quiet rehap. I rang to explain so I could book the op in around the hunt meets. He was a horseman, understood and was helpful and pleasant.

I find it works better if you can get a dialogue going with them. It doesn't make me any less anti but it does make things easier for my horses. Of course you may just find he is an arrogant git you have to tell in no uncertain terms but trying to get co operation is sometimes easier.

Sounds like you have a good balance with your local hunt, unfortunately I am in the same area for VWH and they are not very helpful at all. They send the hunt card highlighting when they are in the vicinity, but every time I ask which direction they plan on going, whose land they plan to cross, every time the response I get is “they aren’t sure yet”, and they “might” run close to my land …. This is the same response whether I ask a week before, a day before, or the morning of the hunt.

 

[paddy555]

Sounds like you have a good balance with your local hunt, unfortunately I am in the same area for VWH and they are not very helpful at all. They send the hunt card highlighting when they are in the vicinity, but every time I ask which direction they plan on going, whose land they plan to cross, every time the response I get is “they aren’t sure yet”, and they “might” run close to my land …. This is the same response whether I ask a week before, a day before, or the morning of the hunt.

seems they are all different. I don't get a hunt card so we are left wondering some of the time.

re your final sentence they possibly haven't consulted the fox yet so the trail is unclear.

 

[TGM]

So sorry, its bloodhounding.

Which pack?

 

[ycbm]

Sounds like you have a good balance with your local hunt, unfortunately I am in the same area for VWH and they are not very helpful at all. They send the hunt card highlighting when they are in the vicinity, but every time I ask which direction they plan on going, whose land they plan to cross, every time the response I get is “they aren’t sure yet”, and they “might” run close to my land …. This is the same response whether I ask a week before, a day before, or the morning of the hunt.

There is no other reasonable explanation for that than that they are hunting fox.
.

 

[lizziebell]

There is no other reasonable explanation for that than that they are hunting fox.
.

Exactly! I also don’t understand why they still have terrier men? I’ve been told it’s so they can open gates for non-jumping riders, but I’m not sure how the box full of terriers they have with them, assists in opening gates ??‍

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Which pack?

Have PM'd you

 

[teapot]

An acquaintance of mine is very pro the local hunt, if they're not out mounted, they're on foot providing drinks and snacks, raising funds etc. Proper old school type that I'm sure we all know someone like. They posted a video on fb of the Boxing Day meet, saying how the scenes were wonderful, must continue, more people need to embrace it etc.

The first thing that came to my mind was the social licence aspect and actually how it is beginning to look archaic, chaps in jackets with coloured collars and top hats, young kids being dragged with parent on foot etc. What I also noticed, and checked with the prof photos is how smaller the fields have been this season so far. Is that the cost of the cap biting, or are those who once hunted once/twice a week beginning to question their own role in social licence? As a friend said, social licence also involves whether you can drop into conversation with your work colleagues that you spent the weekend hunting (regardless of type).

Those who hunt do need to start realising the role that they play within the wider context of equestrianism as we're all in it together - using an animal for sport and enjoyment. Also as others have said, if hunts are acting legally why the continued presence of terrier men and terriers too?

 

[suestowford]

Perhaps someone who knows more could answer that about the terriers? I'm sorry if it's been answered before but this thread moves on a lot and I may have missed it.
Why are they there for a trail hunt?
It can't be for a jolly, I can't think that sitting on a quad next to a box load of excited yapping terriers is a fun way to spend a day!

 

[meleeka]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1609133962474946560

 

[Tiddlypom]

The successful prosecution of the former huntsman for the Quorn after the police confiscated his phone and uncovered all the incriminating Whatsapp messages on it has not gone unnoticed.

Cheshire Rural crime team are taking a lot of interest in the blocked badger setts that are frequently found on the hunting days of a certain pack which sometimes meets on their patch.

No legally operating trail hunt should be blocking badger setts. The net is closing.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...Y3TuQewZbKk1Lg6VhqnfBAWKzl&id=100064929210943

 

[Clodagh]

Perhaps someone who knows more could answer that about the terriers? I'm sorry if it's been answered before but this thread moves on a lot and I may have missed it.
Why are they there for a trail hunt?
It can't be for a jolly, I can't think that sitting on a quad next to a box load of excited yapping terriers is a fun way to spend a day!

It is still legal to use terriers to locate and shoot a fox underground.

 

[rabatsa]

Sorry folks, if I got stopped out hacking the police would find a lock knife in my pocket. I carry one all the time, along with some bale band. Mine is a Victorinox equestrian and has been my constant companion for well over 20 years. https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Products/Swiss-Army-Knives/Large-Pocket-Knives/Equestrian/p/0.8583

 

[ycbm]

The successful prosecution of the former huntsman for the Quorn after the police confiscated his phone and uncovered all the incriminating Whatsapp messages on it has not gone unnoticed.

Neither, I suspect, has the webinar advice to carry two phones, one with the basic hunt communications on it and the other for stuff you don't want the police to read, and only hand over the first one.

What the hell were our local hunt doing appointing a Huntsman with a recent conviction for illegal hunting. It beggars belief!
.

 

[suestowford]

It is still legal to use terriers to locate and shoot a fox underground.

I know this is a serious thread, and I shouldn't be finding amusement in it but I now can't get the image out of my head of terriers heading off into a drain, armed up like John Rambo.
I've had a bloody miserable year but that has tickled me

 

[Clodagh]

I know this is a serious thread, and I shouldn't be finding amusement in it but I now can't get the image out of my head of terriers heading off into a drain, armed up like John Rambo.
I've had a bloody miserable year but that has tickled me

???