ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I confess I assumed, since there was no mention of banning drag hunts, that trail hunting could continue with a false scent.
It would be extraordinarily illiberal to ban drag hunting.
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Hunting is in a spot of bother
- Thread starter Tiddlypom
- Start date
I confess I assumed, since there was no mention of banning drag hunts, that trail hunting could continue with a false scent.
It would be extraordinarily illiberal to ban drag hunting.
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lizziebell
Well-Known Member
In the actual bill it does define:
“trail hunting” is the activity in which a dog is directed to find and follow an animal-based scent which has been laid for that purpose.
So no, that wouldn’t ban following a non-animal based scent.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
The net is tightening…..
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-22...ized-in-largest-ever-fox-hunting-related-raid
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-22...ized-in-largest-ever-fox-hunting-related-raid
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
This is a big deal.
Six men arrested and 22 dogs seized in 'largest ever' fox hunting-related raid https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-22...aid?utm_source=NewsApp&utm_medium=SocialShare
The tide has definitely turned post the webinar leaks. The police and authorities are much less likely to swallow the Hunting Office spiel that hunts are legally trail hunting. The police have gone for the phones again, which is what did for the ex Quorn huntsman, but who despite his recent conviction is unbelievably still working for a registered foxhound pack.
Six men arrested and 22 dogs seized in 'largest ever' fox hunting-related raid https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-22...aid?utm_source=NewsApp&utm_medium=SocialShare
The tide has definitely turned post the webinar leaks. The police and authorities are much less likely to swallow the Hunting Office spiel that hunts are legally trail hunting. The police have gone for the phones again, which is what did for the ex Quorn huntsman, but who despite his recent conviction is unbelievably still working for a registered foxhound pack.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
If they were serious about reform then Finnegan would have been dismissed immediately, the fact he is still out and about going about his business and accompanying hounds in the countryside shows how little regard for change they actually have.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
The ITV news item on the raids is currently ranked second on the 'Most Popular' listings. Not shoved away in some dark corner never to be read. Good.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced the reporters are barking up the correct tree.
Unless I'm mistaken there's no reference to any particular hunt or foxhounds.
THe report mentions lurchers being seized which doesn't immediately bring to mind foxhound packs. My initial impression is that this could be more to do with poaching than hunting but we shall wait and see.
I do hope the poor dogs are OK, I would, quite literally, rather shoot my own beloved dog in the head than leave him in the care of the RSPCA.
Unless I'm mistaken there's no reference to any particular hunt or foxhounds.
THe report mentions lurchers being seized which doesn't immediately bring to mind foxhound packs. My initial impression is that this could be more to do with poaching than hunting but we shall wait and see.
I do hope the poor dogs are OK, I would, quite literally, rather shoot my own beloved dog in the head than leave him in the care of the RSPCA.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Four of the “people” arrested were terrier men for the East Kent Hunt who incidentally killed a fox in a member of the publics front garden last week.
Quote from the article ….
The dogs “who were mostly terriers and some lurcher dogs - have now been placed in RSPCA care. Other supporting evidence was also seized by police”.
The “other supporting evidence” is understood to include mobile phones.
As the raids began early on Wednesday morning, hunts across the country were quickly alerted. A WhatsApp group message circulated to those inside hunting and shared with ITV News says the RSPCA and the Police were “looking for damaged terriers” and they should “alert everyone in your area they could be visited”.
Many more hunts over the country should be worried, I have seen an increase in blocked badger setts this season, every quad out seems to have terriers in it. Two hunts have been filmed netting badger setts recently, it’s been dire.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Well you're more 'in the know' than me so I expect you're correct.
It was the mention of 'protected animals' and the fact they referred to looking for dogs with injuries made me wonder whether the charges were related to badgers rather than foxes.
Legally the term 'protected animal' relates to domesticated animals, not wildlife. The badger is a 'protected species' so I wondered if the reporter was getting confused..as seems to happen quite regularly in modern day reporting.
It was the mention of 'protected animals' and the fact they referred to looking for dogs with injuries made me wonder whether the charges were related to badgers rather than foxes.
Legally the term 'protected animal' relates to domesticated animals, not wildlife. The badger is a 'protected species' so I wondered if the reporter was getting confused..as seems to happen quite regularly in modern day reporting.
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Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Foxes are protected under the animal welfare act, though it does sound as though badgers could be involved…..they were looking for terriers with facial injuries.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
The Spooner’s & West Dartmoor Hunt terrier man has been found guilty of blocking, damaging, and causing a terrier to enter a protected badger sett under the 1992 Protection of Badgers Act.
In court Harris claimed that the hounds were under control of the huntsman Guy Morlock. They chased a fox to ground and he was instructed to flush and kill that fox. Mark said that he knew there was a litter of foxes in the area on that day.
Mark was ordered to pay a fine of £1000, victim surcharge of £100, and Crown’s costs of £900.
In court Harris claimed that the hounds were under control of the huntsman Guy Morlock. They chased a fox to ground and he was instructed to flush and kill that fox. Mark said that he knew there was a litter of foxes in the area on that day.
Mark was ordered to pay a fine of £1000, victim surcharge of £100, and Crown’s costs of £900.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Ahh that soft underbelly strikes again…..
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-31...xguvIg2e4Vl-0CGO61z30Htvy-3pxph7XXZrAxkPNaxYQ
https://www.itv.com/news/2023-01-31...xguvIg2e4Vl-0CGO61z30Htvy-3pxph7XXZrAxkPNaxYQ
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Reading that his crime was it is an active badger sett? Does that mean you can hunt a fox with a terrier out of a hole just not an active badger one? Seems a weird loophole.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Whatever your view of the pro or anti illegal hunting divide, there can be no doubt that conduct like this on a busy main road is both highly dangerous and completely unacceptable. This video was, I believe, taken recently in N.Shropshire - not my patch or my local hunt, but not that far away.
The anti group posting the video usually do just video and monitor the hunt, they are not ones to confuse the hounds with false horn calls or spray. There is no evidence in the video of them doing anything other than watch the unfolding chaos.
Sending hounds out blind onto a busy main road to be narrowly missed by a HGV which had to slam on the brakes
. The hunt horse is ridden out on to the road to be nearly taken out by a speeding hunt quad bike.
I have, in the past, personally witnessed similar behaviour from hunts on the road. The antis have handed this footage to the W.Mercia police.
https://fb.watch/isOe-kK-jA/
The anti group posting the video usually do just video and monitor the hunt, they are not ones to confuse the hounds with false horn calls or spray. There is no evidence in the video of them doing anything other than watch the unfolding chaos.
Sending hounds out blind onto a busy main road to be narrowly missed by a HGV which had to slam on the brakes
. The hunt horse is ridden out on to the road to be nearly taken out by a speeding hunt quad bike.I have, in the past, personally witnessed similar behaviour from hunts on the road. The antis have handed this footage to the W.Mercia police.
https://fb.watch/isOe-kK-jA/
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MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
That is scary. From the livery of the hunt staff, and the road signs in Welsh I suspect this is just over the border and not in North Shropshire.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Ah, is it over the border? The country for that pack extends into Shropshire, Cheshire and N.Wales, so it could well be.
ETA The hunt is named in the video.
ETA The hunt is named in the video.
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Millionwords
Well-Known Member
Bl00dy hell! That was a horrifying watch. Those poor hounds being put in such danger.Whatever your view of the pro or anti illegal hunting divide, there can be no doubt that conduct like this on a busy main road is both highly dangerous and completely unacceptable. This video was, I believe, taken recently in N.Shropshire - not my patch or my local hunt, but not that far away.
The anti group posting the video usually do just video and monitor the hunt, they are not ones to confuse the hounds with false horn calls or spray. There is no evidence in the video of them doing anything other than watch the unfolding chaos.
Sending hounds out blind onto a busy main road to be narrowly missed by a HGV which had to slam on the brakes
View attachment 107103
View attachment 107104
View attachment 107107
I have, in the past, personally witnessed similar behaviour from hunts on the road. The antis have handed this footage to the W.Mercia police.
https://fb.watch/isOe-kK-jA/
If that HGV had had a load there would have been carnage!
Grassy
Well-Known Member
Just seen a report of 10 hounds running loose on the M1 today
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
Your local hunt killed a fox yesterday, letting a convicted fox killer carry on with a pack of hounds would only ever have one ending.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I have seen that on Facebook. The incident was captured on drone footage. I am pleased to hear from the FB comments that the video footage has not been posted on social media but will be handed in unedited to the police.
While I always reserve judgement on any incident that I have not heard both sides of, this just confirms the absolute madness of a hunt continuing to employ a person with a very recent slam dunk conviction - caught out by his own whatsapp messages - of illegal hunting. The offences occurred when he was employed by the Quorn, not by local pack, but they were as clear as day.
What reputable professional body would permit an individual who has been convicted in court of crimes as part of carrying out their job to be be free to continue to be employed in the same role? They wouldn't - person would be barred.
Local pack has gone from being the poster role model of how a hunt can reform, chuck in illegal hunting, take up legal trail hunting and be left alone by the antis, to now. They have completely blown their credibility, the antis will not give them a second chance. Rural police are well aware of the huntsman's previous form, too.
Every time you think that surely hunting can't possibly do any more to bring about its own demise, then it manages to come up with another PR disaster.
A reminder of the court case re who is now local pack's huntsman, and of what the British Hound Sports Association (BHSA) said after the conviction. So just what have the BHSA done about it?
Following the conviction, a spokesperson for the British Hound Sports Association (BHSA) said: "We can confirm that a current member of the BHSA has today pleaded guilty to illegal hunting on 7th January 2022, near Hartbury, Glos.
"This organisation does not condone illegal activity and the matter has been referred to the Hound Sports Regulatory Authority (HSRA) which is the regulatory body responsible for disciplinary matters."
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Millionwords
Well-Known Member
BREAKING: Hounds from the Four Burrows Hunt have today fallen down a disused mine shaft near Porkellis, Cornwall, whilst the hunt was out hunting foxes in the area. It's believed three hounds have fallen in.
Seems the fire brigade assisted.
If they'd have laid actual trails, hounds wouldn't have fallen and the fire service resources wouldn't have been wasted.
Seems the fire brigade assisted.
If they'd have laid actual trails, hounds wouldn't have fallen and the fire service resources wouldn't have been wasted.
Flowerofthefen
Well-Known Member
As we well know most hunts dint lay trails. I briefly glanced over a few posts and noticed someone had got drone footage. What a good idea!! If legal it could certainly help stop the illegal hunting.
Koweyka
Well-Known Member
And in other news the Meynall hunt have just been filmed letting a fox out of a quad bike box by terriermen and the hounds have killed it.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
When are they going to be stopped.....How can anyone defend that?
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
You don’t actually know that, people lose dogs down mineshafts occasionally. I hope the hounds are unhurt.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
That’s despicable.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
You'd think they'd just avoid that field(s) when laying a trail. They're marked on maps.
Unless of course there was no trail.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
In Devon and Cornwall (and possibly elsewhere) there still seems to be a lot of unidentified old mineshafts, with locals and visitors only discovering them when a person or dog has a near escape or actually falls down one. Mining in these counties wasn't a big, organised affair and a lot of the mine shafts were never added to official maps.
I'm not saying the hunt weren't misbehaving though, just that not all the shafts are known about.
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
[Deleted -Double posted somehow]
Millionwords
Well-Known Member
No I appreciate that, I work in an area with hundreds of them, we discovered two more only a few months ago that had fallen in.