Hunting is in a spot of bother

[Wishfilly]

You could be right, and not only will the hunt staff have turned over, the hunts will have a completely different mastership too. So the decent ones are no more and the not decent ones have just carried on regardless.

I think, unfortunately, this is highly possible, and perhaps explains why some hunts are now badly run.

I think there's a big difference between being against the ban and actually being willing to break the law in one's professional life.

 

[ester]

I've always been very impressed with the distance control over hounds that the huntsman I have been out with had. Ability to call off from wrong lines etc. Once with the Hursley they went a bit off line early in the day, landowner understandably upset but the hunt staff managed the situation well, landowner was happy again and gifts were likely taken round after.

It is notable recently from both my facebook areas (somerset and cambs) that hunts are upsetting a lot of people with their behaviour, in particular disregard for being on land they don't have permission to be on.

 

[ycbm]

Ditto Ester. Out with drag packs, I could tell they'd picked up fox, their voices changed and they were so excited. But almost unbelievable the level of control the huntsman has. I never saw them get more than 100 yards or so before they responded to a recall.
.

 

[Pedantic]

People should stick to the law, that includes the Sabs trespassing and intimidating women and kids.

Never understand the enjoyment anyone gets from killing something for fun, for food yes, for fun no.

 

[palo1]

You could be right, and not only will the hunt staff have turned over, the hunts will have a completely different mastership too. So the decent ones are no more and the not decent ones have just carried on regardless.

There are still very decent, professional and law abiding huntsmen, masters and staff working for trail hunts. It is tragic that other hunts are letting them down so appallingly.

 

[Rowreach]

There are still very decent, professional and law abiding huntsmen, masters and staff working for trail hunts. It is tragic that other hunts are letting them down so appallingly.

Well it’s about time the Hunting Office did something about it then.

 

[Hackback]

I hunt when I can with a Bloodhound pack and find them the most courteous friendly bunch I could wish to meet. They only cross land with permission of the landowners (who are often present at the meet and particularly thanked in the master's speech, and by the grateful field). We are instructed when we have to stick to headlands/ride single file etc and everyone follows the instructions because we appreciate the landowners generosity and don't want to abuse it, plus we want to be allowed to hunt there next year. Meets were called off last season out of respect to the landowners, because the hunt didn't think it was fair to churn up the land in the atrocious wet conditions we were having.

I've ridden in the field through Chatsworth Estate and witnessed hounds completely ignoring the sheep and deer grazing nearby, I've seen how much hounds adore their master and how much they love their work.

Covid brought changes, we now have to book in advance so numbers are known and can be restricted, and there are now two or three separate fields, each led by an official and which are not allowed to mix. It does take some of the fun and spontaneity out of it, but it's still a fantastic day, or it was before they went into Tier 4 and have had to postpone their meets.

I must admit this thread has shocked me a little, I didnt realise hunts still existed that were so chaotic and destructive. I love going out with my pack, there are jumps, water, gallops gallore and a real fun day. I went out with a foxhound pack a few years ago but we kept having to turn back because of sabs, which made it quite a slow and frustrating day in comparison.

 

[Sandstone1]

Well local hunt out again yesterday. scores of riders. No social distancing and no masks. we are now in tier 4 so hopefully that will stop them....

 

[Frumpoon]

BBC website details an incident with the High Peak hounds taking a pet cat

What is it with hounds not under control of huntsman??? What is he doing if not training to recall hounds?

 

[stormox]

Well local hunt out again yesterday. scores of riders. No social distancing and no masks. we are now in tier 4 so hopefully that will stop them....

Loads of people out hacking in groups too - but surely you are socially distanced on a horse anyway, no one rides so close to another horse the riders are less than 6ft apart. Same with cyclists. And outside you dont have to wear a mask! So I would think hunting is a fairly safe pastime..... whether its allowed or not under the latest tier is another matter.

 

[Sandstone1]

Think maybe 100 riders, car followers and terrier men. Not on really but they do as they like anyway. Is it appropriate to do it?
Not seen any groups of more than 3 hacking.

 

[Wishfilly]

Loads of people out hacking in groups too - but surely you are socially distanced on a horse anyway, no one rides so close to another horse the riders are less than 6ft apart. Same with cyclists. And outside you dont have to wear a mask! So I would think hunting is a fairly safe pastime..... whether its allowed or not under the latest tier is another matter.

Under Tier 4, it's not allowed- but then neither is hacking out or cycling with more than one other person outside of your household.

I have to say I have never seen a group hack as large as a hunt- it's not just about the distancing etc, but the numbers involved.

 

[Tiddlypom]

.

BBC website details an incident with the High Peak hounds taking a pet cat

What is it with hounds not under control of huntsman??? What is he doing if not training to recall hounds?

Keep up, we’re on it. Though glad it’s made it to the BBC at last. The same pack recently rioted after a calf.

Police investigating after cat killed by High Peak Hunt hound https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-55487525

Ms Bingham said two riders soon followed after the dogs but failed to get them to release Spider, with her partner stepping in to free the cat.
She said they carried on their exercises soon after, so she called the hunt later to speak about the incident.
"It was a two-minute phone call, and it seemed like it was an inconvenience to speak to me rather than an apology," she said.

To Palo, and to anyone else who may be involved with properly run genuinely legal trail hunting packs :- you need to jump ship from the chaotic self serving disaster that is your current overseeing body and set one up of your own, or you will be pulled down too.

Though, tbf, I think you’ve already left it too late .

 

[ester]

I've definitely been much closer to people than 2m on a horse and on a bike.

 

[Kat]

I hunt when I can with a Bloodhound pack and find them the most courteous friendly bunch I could wish to meet. They only cross land with permission of the landowners (who are often present at the meet and particularly thanked in the master's speech, and by the grateful field). We are instructed when we have to stick to headlands/ride single file etc and everyone follows the instructions because we appreciate the landowners generosity and don't want to abuse it, plus we want to be allowed to hunt there next year. Meets were called off last season out of respect to the landowners, because the hunt didn't think it was fair to churn up the land in the atrocious wet conditions we were having.

I've ridden in the field through Chatsworth Estate and witnessed hounds completely ignoring the sheep and deer grazing nearby, I've seen how much hounds adore their master and how much they love their work.

Covid brought changes, we now have to book in advance so numbers are known and can be restricted, and there are now two or three separate fields, each led by an official and which are not allowed to mix. It does take some of the fun and spontaneity out of it, but it's still a fantastic day, or it was before they went into Tier 4 and have had to postpone their meets.

I must admit this thread has shocked me a little, I didnt realise hunts still existed that were so chaotic and destructive. I love going out with my pack, there are jumps, water, gallops gallore and a real fun day. I went out with a foxhound pack a few years ago but we kept having to turn back because of sabs, which made it quite a slow and frustrating day in comparison.

I am pretty sure you are talking about the pack I hunt with and I echo everything you say. The master/huntsman is absolutely brilliant and so welcoming to everyone, the hounds are always impeccably behaved and beautifully turned out. They are also very respectful of landowners, both in terms of avoiding damage to the land in bad weather and during covid.

I am so upset to see what is happening with trail hunting especially locally as I am worried that bloodhound packs will be tarred with the same brush and stopped from hunting on certain estates.

 

[planete]

The whole hunting terminalogy needs to go. There is no legal 'hunting' any longer so why persists in using words such as 'hunts', 'hounds' and 'hunting'? It gives the general public the wrong idea, it also probably provides some kind of twisted justification for illegal activities. It might be best to face up to the fact that hunting is over, what we should be promoting now is 'riding a trail', ie we use dogs to track and we follow on horse back because we like to see dogs working and we like riding across country. If packs are going to survive and, even better, thrive, they need to promote themselves as legal, family friendly, fun that cannot be associated with a now banned pursuit. It is not enough to say they are law abiding, they need to actively change their image and start getting the public on their side. Be open about everything to do with their activities, invite the whole local community to 'get to know your pack' days, and promote themselves as widely as possible so local riding schools and happy hackers actually feel like giving it a go, stamp on the elitist image and bury it. Then they might have a future.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I've definitely been much closer to people than 2m on a horse and on a bike.

Plus a German scientist worked it out that riding a horse at walk you needed to leave a 4meter gap to allow your breath particles to disperse before the person behind you gets to it. At trot it was 25m, canter 60m, gallop 100m+.

 

[Kipper's Dick]

The whole hunting terminalogy needs to go. There is no legal 'hunting' any longer so why persists in using words such as 'hunts', 'hounds' and 'hunting'? It gives the general public the wrong idea, it also probably provides some kind of twisted justification for illegal activities. It might be best to face up to the fact that hunting is over, what we should be promoting now is 'riding a trail', ie we use dogs to track and we follow on horse back because we like to see dogs working and we like riding across country. If packs are going to survive and, even better, thrive, they need to promote themselves as legal, family friendly, fun that cannot be associated with a now banned pursuit. It is not enough to say they are law abiding, they need to actively change their image and start getting the public on their side. Be open about everything to do with their activities, invite the whole local community to 'get to know your pack' days, and promote themselves as widely as possible so local riding schools and happy hackers actually feel like giving it a go, stamp on the elitist image and bury it. Then they might have a future.

Not enough to just 'like' this post. Brilliant. And the only way forward.

 

[Miss_Millie]

And now another pet cat killing incident - the 2 year old cat being on her owner’s property in Bakewell. Hounds broke into the owner’s yard when on hound exercise, dragged the cat out from under a car where she had run to hide, and killed her.

The High Peak Hunt again, where almost the whole pack recently rioted onto a calf and chased that calf across several fields.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/hounds-riot-onto-calf.797034/

First rioting onto livestock, now domestic pets. What the freeking heck is going on? Time to disband, I think. The High Peak are not denying the incident.

The hunt has been in contact with the cat owner and apologised unreservedly for the distress this has caused.

RIP Spider

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...cBhA8KX4rNq0ya1ewLxxNUnq7L1llrrAzHlm3CJqVwoNM

I'm completely horrified and disgusted by this. My cat is my entire world - if my cat was killed in such a violent way, on my own property, I would give up the will to live.

It's evident that these hunts are completely out of control. They have no respect for other people's property or land. They have no control over their animals. These people are disgraceful.

 

[Clodagh]

The whole hunting terminalogy needs to go. There is no legal 'hunting' any longer so why persists in using words such as 'hunts', 'hounds' and 'hunting'? It gives the general public the wrong idea, it also probably provides some kind of twisted justification for illegal activities. It might be best to face up to the fact that hunting is over, what we should be promoting now is 'riding a trail', ie we use dogs to track and we follow on horse back because we like to see dogs working and we like riding across country. If packs are going to survive and, even better, thrive, they need to promote themselves as legal, family friendly, fun that cannot be associated with a now banned pursuit. It is not enough to say they are law abiding, they need to actively change their image and start getting the public on their side. Be open about everything to do with their activities, invite the whole local community to 'get to know your pack' days, and promote themselves as widely as possible so local riding schools and happy hackers actually feel like giving it a go, stamp on the elitist image and bury it. Then they might have a future.

On the whole I totally agree with your ideas. On the other hand, as an avowed traditionalist the thought of riding a trail with dogs fills me with horror.
I love the people dressing up in the full rig, the smartly turned out horses and a nice level pack of foxhounds. If we are to destroy the whole thing we can lose the dogs and just do a sponsored ride or cross country hack.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It's evident that these hunts are completely out of control. They have no respect for other people's property or land. They have no control over their animals. These people are disgraceful.

Sounds pretty much like the latest generation of kids/teenagers and their parents!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

On the whole I totally agree with your ideas. On the other hand, as an avowed traditionalist the thought of riding a trail with dogs fills me with horror.
I love the people dressing up in the full rig, the smartly turned out horses and a nice level pack of foxhounds. If we are to destroy the whole thing we can lose the dogs and just do a sponsored ride or cross country hack.

The turnout and full tweed/blue/red coats is a sight to behold and I really do not want that to disappear from our countryside. It already is a bit here in Scotland. A new drag hunt has formed, no hounds, no need for formal attire so long as you have the correct boots and hats on, go for an hour or so's jolly, stop for 20mins then go for another hour or so's jolly which really isn't any form of hunting - drag or no.

I remember many years ago when the racehorses were the hunt horses and we were the hunt staff a hound buggered off across a farmers field after a hare. 3 of us searched for 4 hours for the damned thing, it's fate was certain regardless. We never found it. All we could so was ring round all the farmers and locals to pass the word the hound was to be shot on sight, or if caught the master would come and pick it up to dispatch of it. There was no leeway with this. It just really annoyed that the damned thing has disappeared completely!

 

[shortstuff99]

This is a link to the Sab page but it has made the media today, a huntsman saying he doesn't give a f*ck about covid...

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2290158021129259&id=243223759156039

 

[ycbm]

They just keep on giving, don't they?

That short 'I don't give a' clip is going to be an anti hunting meme for the rest of time.

It's going to damage ALL hunts, trail and drag. Time they set themselves apart from these idiots and starting shouting about it, or the days of drag and trail are numbered as well.
.

 

[L&M]

Where is the evidence that he said this?

 

[Lipglosspukka]

I am very on the fence with hunting. I have hunted in Ireland, for the experience. I have hunted in the UK post ban and never experienced any wrong doing with the particular hunt I was out with.

That said I specifically went with a hunt in Ireland who do not use terrier men. As far as I'm concerned, if a fox is strong enough to get himself home then leave him be. To dig a fox out is barbaric.

I do not agree with hunting being allowed on public land, especially those areas that have feral ponies. I can only imagine the level of stress and carnage.

I would welcome a one strike policy for hunts. If caught once then that's it. Game over.

 

[L&M]

Where is the evidence that he said this?

Sorry just listened to the clip!! Brain not working this morning....

 

[Sandstone1]

Where is the evidence that he said this?

I think its quite plain he did say it! Waiting for the pro hunters to come along and say it was out of context!

 

[palo1]

Not quite a direct response to the above post but this provides considerable context for the 'Covid' clip, not to mention an ongoing demonstration of the unacceptable abuse that hunting people are receiving without any evidence of wrongdoing, intent to do wrong or cause offence or harm to anyone or anything. The situation with sabs has been particularly aggressive in the last 2 years and undoubtedly Sab behaviour has resulted in some of the incidents passed off as illegal hunting. Please don't be fooled into thinking that there is only one side to these incidents. Mark Norris' leading comment is pretty self explanatory in fact...

This is from This isHunting UK - a page/group that is well respected and considered to entirely support legal trail hunting. Please read with caution, some of the comments posted are deeply offensive and upsetting.


https://countrysquire.co.uk/2021/01...jxy4TzUAJbLZJEUit2rtey7gywrO3RosqX67IEu2TyutQ

BY NIGEL BEAN & PAUL READ
Peace and goodwill to all men or so the Christmas saying goes. And in maintaining this tradition of warmth and compassion, this Christmas This is Hunting UK put out on their Facebook page a glad tiding reminding their followers to think of hunt staff and unpaid helpers at this time of year:
“In recognition of all those who do so much to support our Hunting through these most difficult times, we would like to bring you this Christmas morning a selection of great photos from across the World in our gratitude. The range of people who give so freely of their time is far too great to mention in just a few sentences. However this of all mornings it should be our Hunt Staff who we believe should be highlighted. Be they in Kennels Stables or out in the field it is they who keep the show on the road for us. Lastly but by no means least, thank you to all who have given such great support to TiHUK over the last twelve months, this too is hugely recognised by us all. A Very Happy Christmas to each and every one of you and a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year.”
What followed came as a shock. Antis from across the country were directed to a pile-on and between them generated three thousand negative/vile/abusive comments while the innocent This is Hunting UK post was shared almost two thousand times.

If you don’t like bad language, please look away now. Here are a small selection of the comments that followed:

Amongst the antis who piled on was a Doctor Simon Peter Braybrook – a Rasputinesque GP from Butetown, a district and community in the south of the city of Cardiff. Dr Braybrook is a partner in Butetown Medical Practice and is Chair of the South East Wales Faculty of the Royal College of General Practitioners. Braybrook has links with Cardiff University and a gender clinic. He was even nominated as a “Welsh icon” in 2015. So what on earth is someone of such supposed standing in his community – a father of two, no less, and supporter of the scouts – getting embroiled in a social media pile-on, you may well ask?

Drunk?
Too many mince pies?
Although less vile than his trolling comrades, Braybrook’s views were there – plastered online for all to see. One hunt supporter challenged him over his decision-affecting bigotry, but Doctor Braybrook carried on ranting, unabated:

One feels somewhat sorry for Braybrook’s colleagues, considering the way he talks about them behind their backs:

The pile-on became so unpleasant and abusive that even an opponent of hunting became so appalled, he felt obliged to make his feelings known:

“I just wanted to say I am shocked and sorry for the abuse that has been sent to your organisation. Although we have opposing views it is unacceptable to bombard either side or organisation at that with levels of abuse mentioned in your post. I know we didn’t have the discussions that I wished to have which I regret and apologise for, but I know your group is trying to improve the image of hunting and stand up to and against violence and intimidation which is not recognised by the majority of anti-hunt people. There are a lot of anti-hunt people who are appalled at the abuse that goes on and who distance themselves from those who think it’s fun to do so.”​

More of the latter.
Less Braybrooks, please.
Doctor Braybrook did delete his comments later. Too late. Some other parts of the exchange can be found below. Copies are on the way to the noble institutions to which Braybrook is affiliated. You can’t suckle on the public teat and expect to get away with those kind of standards. Better that Doctor Braybrook explains to a conduct panel why he behaves in such irresponsible ways, and so publicly.
Note: If you have been turned down for a shotgun licence by Dr Braybrook or his surgery then please do get in touch.

Advertisements

 

[BeckyFlowers]

Good grief how utterly vile, and I'm glad that doctor isn't my GP. It mentions he doesn't work for the NHS, which in my view is one thing to be thankful for. Doesn't sound as though he would be impartial in his treatment of his patients from all that ranting.

It's such a shame that the skill and mentality of debate and discussion is withering. Luckily on this thread it has been very polite.