Hunting is in a spot of bother

[milliepops]

Good grief how utterly vile, and I'm glad that doctor isn't my GP. It mentions he doesn't work for the NHS, which in my view is one thing to be thankful for. Doesn't sound as though he would be impartial in his treatment of his patients from all that ranting.

i think he meant that signing off the gun licenses is not NHS work. it's a private service that many GPs do.

 

[ycbm]

Not quite a direct response to the above post but this provides considerable context for the 'Covid' clip, not to mention an ongoing demonstration of the unacceptable abuse that hunting people are receiving without any evidence of wrongdoing, intent to do wrong or cause offence or harm to anyone or anything. The situation with sabs has been particularly aggressive in the last 2 years and undoubtedly Sab behaviour has resulted in some of the incidents passed off as illegal hunting. Please don't be fooled into thinking that there is only one side to these incidents. Mark Norris' leading comment is pretty self explanatory in fact...

This is from This isHunting UK - a page/group that is well respected and considered to entirely support legal trail hunting. Please read with caution, some of the comments posted are deeply offensive and upsetting.


https://countrysquire.co.uk/2021/01...jxy4TzUAJbLZJEUit2rtey7gywrO3RosqX67IEu2TyutQ

BY NIGEL BEAN & PAUL READ
Peace and goodwill to all men or so the Christmas saying goes. And in maintaining this tradition of warmth and compassion, this Christmas This is Hunting UK put out on their Facebook page a glad tiding reminding their followers to think of hunt staff and unpaid helpers at this time of year:
“In recognition of all those who do so much to support our Hunting through these most difficult times, we would like to bring you this Christmas morning a selection of great photos from across the World in our gratitude. The range of people who give so freely of their time is far too great to mention in just a few sentences. However this of all mornings it should be our Hunt Staff who we believe should be highlighted. Be they in Kennels Stables or out in the field it is they who keep the show on the road for us. Lastly but by no means least, thank you to all who have given such great support to TiHUK over the last twelve months, this too is hugely recognised by us all. A Very Happy Christmas to each and every one of you and a Very Happy and Prosperous New Year.”
What followed came as a shock. Antis from across the country were directed to a pile-on and between them generated three thousand negative/vile/abusive comments while the innocent This is Hunting UK post was shared almost two thousand times.

If you don’t like bad language, please look away now. Here are a small selection of the comments that followed:

Amongst the antis who piled on was a Doctor Simon Peter Braybrook – a Rasputinesque GP from Butetown, a district and community in the south of the city of Cardiff. Dr Braybrook is a partner in Butetown Medical Practice and is Chair of the South East Wales Faculty of the Royal College of General Practitioners. Braybrook has links with Cardiff University and a gender clinic. He was even nominated as a “Welsh icon” in 2015. So what on earth is someone of such supposed standing in his community – a father of two, no less, and supporter of the scouts – getting embroiled in a social media pile-on, you may well ask?

Drunk?
Too many mince pies?
Although less vile than his trolling comrades, Braybrook’s views were there – plastered online for all to see. One hunt supporter challenged him over his decision-affecting bigotry, but Doctor Braybrook carried on ranting, unabated:

One feels somewhat sorry for Braybrook’s colleagues, considering the way he talks about them behind their backs:

The pile-on became so unpleasant and abusive that even an opponent of hunting became so appalled, he felt obliged to make his feelings known:

“I just wanted to say I am shocked and sorry for the abuse that has been sent to your organisation. Although we have opposing views it is unacceptable to bombard either side or organisation at that with levels of abuse mentioned in your post. I know we didn’t have the discussions that I wished to have which I regret and apologise for, but I know your group is trying to improve the image of hunting and stand up to and against violence and intimidation which is not recognised by the majority of anti-hunt people. There are a lot of anti-hunt people who are appalled at the abuse that goes on and who distance themselves from those who think it’s fun to do so.”​

More of the latter.
Less Braybrooks, please.
Doctor Braybrook did delete his comments later. Too late. Some other parts of the exchange can be found below. Copies are on the way to the noble institutions to which Braybrook is affiliated. You can’t suckle on the public teat and expect to get away with those kind of standards. Better that Doctor Braybrook explains to a conduct panel why he behaves in such irresponsible ways, and so publicly.
Note: If you have been turned down for a shotgun licence by Dr Braybrook or his surgery then please do get in touch.

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Palo you mean extremely well, but taken in December 2020, with clear pictures of dozens of riders sat bunched up knee to knee watching the hounds and clear recording of a Hunt official saying "I don't give a f*** about Covid", your defence of hunting is mistimed, misguided, and is unlikely to bring you anything much but approbation.

For a start, after saying that NO illegal behaviour at a hunt is justified, sab included, I'm going to metaphorically smack you on the wrist right now for failing, anywhere in your long post, to criticise what we can all see and hear in that video. .

Irrespective of sab behaviour, there is no possible justification for the total, deliberate, breach of Covid-19 social distancing requirements by that hunt.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

i think he meant that signing off the gun licenses is not NHS work. it's a private service that many GPs do.

Crikey, in which case, that's frightening.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

Just to add, in my post I was saying how vile those posts were from all the people swearing etc, not just about the GP.

 

[Rowreach]

Palo you mean extremely well, but taken in December 2020, with clear pictures of dozens of riders sat bunched up knee to knee watching the hounds and clear recording of a Hunt official saying "I don't give a f*** about Covid", your defence of hunting is mistimed, misguided, and is unlikely to bring you anything much but approbation.

For a start, after saying that NO illegal behaviour at a hunt is justified, sab included, I'm going to metaphorically smack you on the wrist right now for failing, anywhere in your long post, to criticise what we can all see and hear in that video. .

Irrespective of sab behaviour, there is no possible justification for the total, deliberate, breach of Covid-19 social distancing requirements by that hunt.

Oh don't be so patronising, Palo started her post by saying she wasn't actually replying to the video, and whatever anyone's views about hunting, surely we should all be condemning the sort of vitriol shown in those comments (which incidentally you didn't do).

I've stated on this thread a couple of times, I used to hunt, I no longer hunt, I think hunts that purport to trail hunt and don't are criminal and doing no service to those that hunt legally, and I think that hunting in any shape or form has probably had its day. I think the video sucks, and I think the comments in Palo's post suck too.

 

[Kipper's Dick]

Palo1, I can really understand your desire to give context, show the other side as it were. But there is no denying the huge damage caused by the frankly appalling comment made by that member of the Warwickshire Hunt. No-one should be 'defending' this man. But I'm assuming that he is not speaking on behalf of all those who are currently trail hunting. And then I noted ycbm's comment about pictures showing riders bunched up knee to knee in the middle of a pandemic and I despair of their relentless stupidity.

To be honest, if trail-hunting could only get its act together then I would be recommending that everyone should give it a try. It is incredibly exciting riding a good horse across country, taking fences as they come. An adrenaline buzz like no other. And horses love it, the ones I've ridden, anyway. And, no, it's not the same as a farm ride with optional jumps.

But the way things are going, I'm not holding my breath that it has a future. And I find that very sad, as it is a loss to us all.

 

[ycbm]

Oh don't be so patronising, Palo started her post by saying she wasn't actually replying to the video, and whatever anyone's views about hunting, surely we should all be condemning the sort of vitriol shown in those comments (which incidentally you didn't do).

I've stated on this thread a couple of times, I used to hunt, I no longer hunt, I think hunts that purport to trail hunt and don't are criminal and doing no service to those that hunt legally, and I think that hunting in any shape or form has probably had its day. I think the video sucks, and I think the comments in Palo's post suck too.

I condemned all illegal behaviour and I liked a thread specifically condemning the comments.

I'm not being patronising, Palo and I have had friendly exchanges on this topic and she has previously expressed regret that the subject has caused divisions on the forum. This was simply a post in the same spirit as previous ones. And it wasn't addressed to you, so how about you leave it to Palo to decide if she thinks she is being patronised? And maybe also ask yourself if you would have bothered with your post if it hadn't been my name on mine, because it feels like this is far from the first time that you actively look for the worst possible motives in my posts..

 

[palo1]

I didn't comment on the conduct of the Warwickshire hunt generally because I wanted to make a particular point about the behaviour of Sabs and the context of that stupid comment on the clip. I hope that whoever that was has been severely taken to task over that; I thank goodness that it doesn't appear to be a member of the hunt staff. It is far too easy to be wound up by Sabs to do stupid things sadly and takes discipline and good sense to avoid getting into that kind of situation. The general protocol for all and any hunt is to NOT engage with sabs...

As for the group of hunting people - I don't know how it can be certain how they are contravening Covid regs; they may well be but then they may not be. If they are/were then they are completely stupid and should be fined. In any case for me, that is a different matter unrelated to hunting and far more related to how people everywhere seem to find reasons to be Covid non-compliant or at least 'Covid-casual' ; I have seen so many people today (I had to go and pick up some brake fluid for my car from the local town in England) not apparantly Covid compliant that I am beginning to wonder if, actually I have misunderstood the guidance...This whole time through the pandemic people have relentlessly travelled and socialised pretty carelessly and needlessly in some instances. That isn't anything to do with hunting though.

 

[ycbm]

As for the group of hunting people - I don't know how it can be certain how they are contravening Covid regs; they may well be but then they may not be. .

Well unless they are all from two households or in a support bubble, there can be no doubt, surely? I don't know how or why you keep trying to defend this.






These are screenshot stiils, they won't play.

 

[Kipper's Dick]

I didn't comment on the conduct of the Warwickshire hunt generally because I wanted to make a particular point about the behaviour of Sabs and the context of that stupid comment on the clip. I hope that whoever that was has been severely taken to task over that; I thank goodness that it doesn't appear to be a member of the hunt staff. It is far too easy to be wound up by Sabs to do stupid things sadly and takes discipline and good sense to avoid getting into that kind of situation. The general protocol for all and any hunt is to NOT engage with sabs...

As for the group of hunting people - I don't know how it can be certain how they are contravening Covid regs; they may well be but then they may not be. If they are/were then they are completely stupid and should be fined. In any case for me, that is a different matter unrelated to hunting and far more related to how people everywhere seem to find reasons to be Covid non-compliant or at least 'Covid-casual' ; I have seen so many people today (I had to go and pick up some brake fluid for my car from the local town in England) not apparantly Covid compliant that I am beginning to wonder if, actually I have misunderstood the guidance...This whole time through the pandemic people have relentlessly travelled and socialised pretty carelessly and needlessly in some instances. That isn't anything to do with hunting though.

Trail-hunters are currently very much in the public eye. Too public for many of them, I'm sure. But it is a golden opportunity to show themselves adhering to the very letter of the law. To be whiter than white and beyond reproach. It would be a good piece of PR work, but they are throwing the opportunity away. If they possessed just a small amount of your unfailing politeness, dedication and common-sense, Palo1, then I believe that their future would be a lot brighter.

 

[palo1]

Well unless they are all from two households or in a support bubble, there can be no doubt, surely? I don't know how or why you keep trying to defend this.


View attachment 62965

View attachment 62966

These are screenshot stiils, they won't play.

Good grief - you can't seriously suggest that this is decent 'evidence' can you? There is absolutely no way that you can tell for certain that people are not, in fact 2m apart not to mention the fact that the source of this 'evidence' is not exactly unbiased. The images are considerably foreshortened due to using a zoom which will make everything look very much closer together, not to mention fuzzy in the extreme. It would be virtually impossible to identify any of these people in any case. I haven't watched these in any other place but I can't see a date on the images either. It is really poor. I am certainly not defending any hunt who were not managing social distancing effectively as the guidance is clear and every hunt must have a Covid officer who should deal with social distancing issues but this film/images are not remotely compelling from a compliance/evidence p.o.v.

 

[palo1]

Trail-hunters are currently very much in the public eye. Too public for many of them, I'm sure. But it is a golden opportunity to show themselves adhering to the very letter of the law. To be whiter than white and beyond reproach. It would be a good piece of PR work, but they are throwing the opportunity away. If they possessed just a small amount of your unfailing politeness, dedication and common-sense, Palo1, then I believe that their future would be a lot brighter.

The vast majority of hunts were absolutely adhering to the letter of the law, with spaces on a day's hunting needing to be booked, track and trace information collected and stored in line with GDPR regs, social distancing well managed. This example may or may not be one of non-compliance but tbh the fact that the SABS are selling it makes it less worth bothering with and far less believable/reputable. IF monitors were as handy looking at local parks, football matches, rugby matches, pubs etc I wonder if they might also find a great many non-hunting related Covid issues. To be honest, whilst this IS a thread about hunting, the Covid stuff just seems a bit 'irrational' in that context. I think everyone is very well aware of mass Covid compliance issues all over the place; it's not just for the hunt bashers!! Happy to share endless anecdotes and possibly even 'photographic evidence' of idiots breaking Covid regs...

 

[ycbm]

Good grief - you can't seriously suggest that this is decent 'evidence' can you? .

Yes, and I think anyone who isn't desperate to defend hunting, who knows the physiology of a horse, who watches the moving video, who can count, can see without a doubt that there are more than 30 people from two households or a support bubble out hunting ignoring the social distancing guidelines.

There is a huge difference between individuals ignoring the advice and organised sports ignoring the advice.

I'm beginning to find your attitude extraordinary.

Your sport would be far better off if it put its energies into condemning this instead of excusing it. You are all at risk of being banned completely if you don't.

 

[Sandstone1]

The vast majority of hunts were absolutely adhering to the letter of the law, with spaces on a day's hunting needing to be booked, track and trace information collected and stored in line with GDPR regs, social distancing well managed. This example may or may not be one of non-compliance but tbh the fact that the SABS are selling it makes it less worth bothering with and far less believable/reputable. IF monitors were as handy looking at local parks, football matches, rugby matches, pubs etc I wonder if they might also find a great many non-hunting related Covid issues. To be honest, whilst this IS a thread about hunting, the Covid stuff just seems a bit 'irrational' in that context. I think everyone is very well aware of mass Covid compliance issues all over the place; it's not just for the hunt bashers!! Happy to share endless anecdotes and possibly even 'photographic evidence' of idiots breaking Covid regs...

There are none so blind as those who will not see....

 

[Kipper's Dick]

The vast majority of hunts were absolutely adhering to the letter of the law, with spaces on a day's hunting needing to be booked, track and trace information collected and stored in line with GDPR regs, social distancing well managed. This example may or may not be one of non-compliance but tbh the fact that the SABS are selling it makes it less worth bothering with and far less believable/reputable. IF monitors were as handy looking at local parks, football matches, rugby matches, pubs etc I wonder if they might also find a great many non-hunting related Covid issues. To be honest, whilst this IS a thread about hunting, the Covid stuff just seems a bit 'irrational' in that context. I think everyone is very well aware of mass Covid compliance issues all over the place; it's not just for the hunt bashers!! Happy to share endless anecdotes and possibly even 'photographic evidence' of idiots breaking Covid regs...

I'm sure that hunts, on the whole, are trying to adhere to the letter of the law. But remarks made by the Warwickshire Hunt member is providing a stick to be beaten with. And it is so unnecessary. I feel the Covid issue is relevant with regard to hunting for the same reason. As you rightly say, Covid idiots are everywhere. But right now, in view of the bad publicity on so many fronts, trail-hunting needs them like a hole in the head. And I don't trust footage provided by anti's, but there are many who might.

 

[palo1]

''I'm beginning to find your attitude extraordinary.''

I find that quite hard to believe as I have been entirely consistent in my support for legal trail hunting and in the way that I don't just accept the line that the anti-hunt brigade present. Sadly I find your attitude entirely predictable. Thankfully there is room for all viewpoints.

 

[palo1]

There are none so blind as those who will not see....

Quite.

 

[shortstuff99]

The issue is hunting has a very, very, very, bad public image. The general public member can't understand why anyone wants to watch a fox be killed, they see it as barbaric. They also see hunt people as posh toffs who look down on them (as horses seem like an expensive hobby)! They therefore see sabs/monitors as fighting for the little guy. When hunt people react as they did on this video it just confirms this view to them. This is irrespective of whether hunt supporters thing this view is warranted.

What legal hunts need to do is go on the PR trail rather then tell everyone they are wrong or arguing with them.

 

[palo1]

The HSA that 'filmed' this breach can be found in the news here: They are not what most people would identify as either a credible or respectable, unbiased source of information. There is considerable 'history' of aggravation with the Warwickshire Hunt. I don't mean specifically in relation to the Covid issue but I think it is important to have a balance of 'reporting' if you like...There is form for misrepresentation of 'evidence' and conviction for that.


A prominent member of the West Midlands Hunt Saboteurs has pleaded guilty of assault by beating after appearing at Coventry Magistrates’ Court on Friday 9th October 2020.


John Watson, who was filmed assaulting a member of the Warwickshire Hunt on February 15th 2020, was sentenced to paying a £132 fine plus a victim surcharge as well as being ordered to pay £135 to the Crown Prosecution Service.

The shocking attack, which took place in a country lane near Preston on Stour, saw a hunt follower thrown violently to the floor by Watson, who proceeded to scream loudly in a shocking rampage.
Watson of Ryton- on- Dunsmore in Warwickshire, was one of around 20 hunt saboteurs who had descended on the countryside to sab the trail hunting activities of the Warwickshire Hunt that day.
Two separate groups arrived in mini buses from both the West Midlands Hunt Saboteurs as well as Liverpool Hunt Saboteurs. Each were dressed in black and wearing balaclavas designed to intimidate hunt supporters and their families.
Police were called upon their arrival, and officers attended shortly after. After asking the masked saboteurs to disperse witnesses confirmed they quickly returned shortly after the police had vacated the scene.
It was at this time that Watson, who has a long history of being involved in extreme animal rights activism, launched a staggering attack on a hunt steward. The steward had attempted to protect a vehicle, before Watson threw him to the floor while shouting ‘get out the way’.
Witnesses recall that Watson started shouting loudly, while brandishing a radio and waving a video camera.
The victim, who remains anonymous out of fear for his safety, was left shocked by the incident.
A spokesman for the hunt said: “The Warwickshire Hunt are pleased to see justice handed out to a member of the increasingly violent West Midland Saboteurs.
“Witnessing a member of our hunt being attacked whilst protecting his colleagues, their children, and our animals is a frightening thing to experience and we are pleased that the law was upheld,” continued the spokesperson.
“We hope that the practice of organised masked, increasingly aggressive gangs looking for a fight in our countryside will now come to an end, especially with the current state of the nation.”
Polly Portwin, Head of Hunting at the Countryside Alliance said: “ These were incredibly concerning scenes. Hunt Sabs regularly inflict violence on hunt supporters and staff as part of their class war driven agenda. We are pleased to see this matter has been dealt with robustly.”
Last month, another member of the West Midlands Hunt Saboteurs was convicted by a jury in Leicester of using edited footage to falsely bolster his claim that a farmer had assaulted him on the farmer's land.
David Graham, 35, was found guilty unanimously of perverting the course of justice by using video evidence which misrepresented what had happened.

John Watson (pictured), a prominent member of the West Midlands Hunt Saboteurs, pleaded guilty of assault by beating after appearing at Coventry Magistrates’ Court on Friday 9th October 2020.

 

[Limit]

I don't have anything to say re: the original post. Apart from what a b****y mess.

But again, from a riders perspective, there really is nothing like it. I've never felt a truer sense of freedom than when being slightly lost, riding to the edge of my abilities, crossing all types of country following a pack of hounds. Its a wildness and sense of being at one with the environment around you with only your senses and wit keeping you alive (sometimes literally) that now doesn't exist in many other parts of life. That sense of freedom is lost so much in our increasingly regulated, urbanized, prescribed, nannying society- (which personally I am not willing to accept as the way of the future and hope to see change of the countryside being more valued and understood and the return and protection of more abundant wild places and wildlife- but that's a different topic entirely)
I've followed both trail and drag packs and trail hunting is much more fun. The rhythm of the day is different and less prescribed as the huntsman does not have knowledge of where the trail is set- with packs I follow usually trails are laid the day prior with further trails laid throughout the day depending on conditions.
I've also found drag riders to have less control and be more worrying to ride with as you get those who are out for a good blast and do not have control of their horses.
Its a huge and lovely community, I agree there are outdated views and malpractice within but for the most part, the majority are there for the love of the horse and hound, the outdoors and their friends within the community. I have never met anyone who I would describe as bloodthirsty and to understand hunting and hunt well you need a respect and understanding for the wildlife and country you are within.

When I was younger I was dead against hunting, I even campaigned against it. Obviously, now true fox hunting is against the law, but I have learnt lots about what hunting was since, and changed my views. Trail hunting should be as it says, -hunting a trail and I hope that for the future of hunting all packs will comply.
But as far as fox control goes, fox control happens regardless of hunting, the gun does not discriminate and kills far more foxes than hunting ever would and the snare and poison are worse.
The original enquiry that investigated hunting and eventually resulted in the 2004 ban agreed that hunting with hounds is the most humane way of controlling the fox population. Mainly because it IS discriminatory. A fit fox will easily outrun and outwit a pack of hounds, I've seen foxes run from cover away from hounds hunting a trail and then turn and lazily watch them, standing in plain sight in front of the field before casually strolling off.
Historically, hounds will typically only catch the older/younger/sick foxes, unless they are having a particularly good day. This leaves the healthy foxes free to carry on, improving the species overall, who will then 'hopefully' stick to wild prey (rabbits, pheasants etc) rather than targeting easier lambs and chickens as their abilities allow them to, thus making them less of a pest.
As well as this, simply running hounds over land deters foxes from claiming it as territory, thus reducing the number of foxes in an area that is hunted as the foxes perceive there to be less territory for them so do not breed as many litters, hence why hunting controls the population without ever sometimes seeing a fox- which is inarguably more humane and a good reason why trail hunting/drag hunting is still a valid form of control to some degree.

Of course, I am aware I am omitting the mention of obvious faux-pax of trespass, violence etc. which should not happen and disappoints me that is does, and those things are indefensible but trail hunting done well and done lawfully I hope does have a place in our future.

 

[Limit]

I don't have anything to say re: the original post. Apart from what a b****y mess.

But again, from a riders perspective, there really is nothing like it. I've never felt a truer sense of freedom than when being slightly lost, riding to the edge of my abilities, crossing all types of country following a pack of hounds. Its a wildness and sense of being at one with the environment around you with only your senses and wit keeping you alive (sometimes literally) that now doesn't exist in many other parts of life. That sense of freedom is lost so much in our increasingly regulated, urbanized, prescribed, nannying society- (which personally I am not willing to accept as the way of the future and hope to see change of the countryside being more valued and understood and the return and protection of more abundant wild places and wildlife- but that's a different topic entirely)
I've followed both trail and drag packs and trail hunting is much more fun. The rhythm of the day is different and less prescribed as the huntsman does not have knowledge of where the trail is set- with packs I follow usually trails are laid the day prior with further trails laid throughout the day depending on conditions.
I've also found drag riders to have less control and be more worrying to ride with as you get those who are out for a good blast and do not have control of their horses.
Its a huge and lovely community, I agree there are outdated views and malpractice within but for the most part, the majority are there for the love of the horse and hound, the outdoors and their friends within the community. I have never met anyone who I would describe as bloodthirsty and to understand hunting and hunt well you need a respect and understanding for the wildlife and country you are within.

When I was younger I was dead against hunting, I even campaigned against it. Obviously, now true fox hunting is against the law, but I have learnt lots about what hunting was since, and changed my views. Trail hunting should be as it says, -hunting a trail and I hope that for the future of hunting all packs will comply.
But as far as fox control goes, fox control happens regardless of hunting, the gun does not discriminate and kills far more foxes than hunting ever would and the snare and poison are worse.
The original enquiry that investigated hunting and eventually resulted in the 2004 ban agreed that hunting with hounds is the most humane way of controlling the fox population. Mainly because it IS discriminatory. A fit fox will easily outrun and outwit a pack of hounds, I've seen foxes run from cover away from hounds hunting a trail and then turn and lazily watch them, standing in plain sight in front of the field before casually strolling off.
Historically, hounds will typically only catch the older/younger/sick foxes, unless they are having a particularly good day. This leaves the healthy foxes free to carry on, improving the species overall, who will then 'hopefully' stick to wild prey (rabbits, pheasants etc) rather than targeting easier lambs and chickens as their abilities allow them to, thus making them less of a pest.
As well as this, simply running hounds over land deters foxes from claiming it as territory, thus reducing the number of foxes in an area that is hunted as the foxes perceive there to be less territory for them so do not breed as many litters, hence why hunting controls the population without ever sometimes seeing a fox- which is inarguably more humane and a good reason why trail hunting/drag hunting is still a valid form of control to some degree.

Of course, I am aware I am omitting the mention of obvious faux-pax of trespass, violence etc. which should not happen and disappoints me that is does, and those things are indefensible but trail hunting done well and done lawfully I hope does have a place in our future.

 

[shortstuff99]

You can discredit the sabs all you want, it won't change the publics view! If anything it entrenches them more!

You have to start showing positive action rather then just trying to combat. There will be plenty of outsiders (not my opinion!!!!) Who will even think the hunt people deserve it for what they do. Hunts need to change it up, their way is clearly not working or getting them support!

 

[ycbm]

''I'm beginning to find your attitude extraordinary.''

I find that quite hard to believe as I have been entirely consistent in my support for legal trail hunting and in the way that I don't just accept the line that the anti-hunt brigade present. Sadly I find your attitude entirely predictable. Thankfully there is room for all viewpoints.

I meant your attitude specifically to what is in the latest video. I don't understand how you can convince yourself that hunt was social distancing. I don't understand how you can't see that if good hunts like yours won't speak out loud against this, you are all going to lose your sport.
.

 

[ycbm]

You can discredit the sabs all you want, it won't change the publics view! If anything it entrenches them more!

You have to start showing positive action rather then just trying to combat. There will be plenty of outsiders (not my opinion!!!!) Who will even think the hunt people deserve it for what they do. Hunts need to change it up, their way is clearly not working or getting them support!

This in spades. Trail hunting and drag hunting seem to me to desperately need some professional PR advice from a hunting neutral supplier.

 

[palo1]

I meant your attitude specifically to what is in the latest video. I don't understand how you can convince yourself that hunt was social distancing. I don't understand how you can't see that if good hunts like yours won't speak out loud against this, you are all going to lose your sport.
.

I haven't convinced myself of anything at all - I have just said that there may or may not be a breach of Covid regulations. I certainly do NOT trust the source that provided the filming. In order for a crime to be committed there has to be unbiased evidence and conviction; in this country, thankfully (though perhaps not in this instance) we have an assumption of innocence until proven guilty.

Good hunts certainly do express their frustration and ire when things go wrong and hunting is misrepresented/badly let down by other hunts. I just can't say why this isn't more publicly understood. I think the thing is, as Sandstone said 'There are none so blind as those that will not see''. The hunting community is pretty small, not particularly tech savvy and the media will only pick up on sensational, newsworthy stuff - not the boring stuff about internal hunt politics that tell a different story to that which will sell coverage.

 

[palo1]

This in spades. Trail hunting and drag hunting seem to me to desperately need some professional PR advice from a hunting neutral supplier.

Is there such a thing? In fact, hunting has had a huge amount of support from many, many different parts of society over the years and that support hasn't entirely gone away but the spreading of positive news, of approachable hunting coverage and of the real cultural 'story' and relevance of hunting is definately something that desperately needs help at the moment.

 

[ycbm]

. I just can't say why this isn't more publicly understood.

Because its not being said loud enough in the right places in the right way. The sport needs some professional PR.

 

[ycbm]

Is there such a thing? In fact, hunting has had a huge amount of support from many, many different parts of society over the years and that support hasn't entirely gone away but the spreading of positive news, of approachable hunting coverage and of the real cultural 'story' and relevance of hunting is definately something that desperately needs help at the moment.

It costs a lot of money, unfortunately, but yes it exists in professional PR agencies who are well used to brand image change programs.

One current example might be the PR company that is currently working on how to reestablish the Boeing 737 Max as safe to fly on.
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[Wishfilly]

Good grief - you can't seriously suggest that this is decent 'evidence' can you? There is absolutely no way that you can tell for certain that people are not, in fact 2m apart not to mention the fact that the source of this 'evidence' is not exactly unbiased. The images are considerably foreshortened due to using a zoom which will make everything look very much closer together, not to mention fuzzy in the extreme. It would be virtually impossible to identify any of these people in any case. I haven't watched these in any other place but I can't see a date on the images either. It is really poor. I am certainly not defending any hunt who were not managing social distancing effectively as the guidance is clear and every hunt must have a Covid officer who should deal with social distancing issues but this film/images are not remotely compelling from a compliance/evidence p.o.v.

You can't criticise the quality of the images and say that they were taken with the sort of lenses that foreshorten the image enough to make 2m social distancing look like that.

I will accept they are not dated, but I have seen enough recent footage/photography of hunts who clearly are not even playing lip service to social distancing to suggest that this was a major issue before lockdown.

I know hunts were legally allowed under a loophole around sporting events, but you have to admit that meeting up in very large groups like this puts us all at risk, and IMO you cannot hunt in such a way as to guarantee that no-one will need assistance from another person (e.g. first aid, a leg up, etc.). Just because you can, does not mean you should.

But given it appears that certain hunts do not care about the actual law, I am not sure why they would care about guidelines intended to keep the rest of society safe, either.

 

[ester]

I don't understand why there hasn't been a concerted effort from all hunts to be whiter that white during their interactions with sabs when they know they are desperate to get a rise out of them on film.