Hunting is in a spot of bother

[CrunchieBoi]

That's us two hunts down in Scotland even before the new Hunting with Dogs Bill has been introduced and before the usual suspects have published their guidance on how to continue to hunt with a pack of dogs and get away with it. I wonder if they know that the game's a bogey, I can't imagine there are actually many foxhound packs left up here.

 

[Sandstone1]

I guess they don't pick up horse poop either.

I had never even thought about picking up hunting dogs poo. I've never seen a hunter clean up after their bird dogs and the thought of some good old boys cleaning up after their deer dogs messes my poor little brain.

Horse poo is different, its fibre based so no meat products so little chance of spreading disease through horse poo. Dog poo will have meat in it plus hounds will be fed a varied diet to put it politely! Far higher risk of spreading disease both to humans and other animals. Given that hounds cross a lot of farm land used for grazing animals its a risk.
However, most hunts do not pick up poo. In fact there is footage of a local hunt allowing hounds in to a grave yard and hounds pooing on graves. Lot of respect there hey!

 

[cauda equina]

There is no legal requirement in the UK to pick up horse droppings
However it is a legal requirement to pick up dog faeces in public areas, with certain exemptions

 

[ycbm]

Horse worms don't blind humans, dog worms do. If hunts are going to hunt near urban areas they must clear up after hounds.

 

[skinnydipper]

"Parasites found in some dog faeces can result in the abortions of cattle and death in sheep ...

... dog faeces in fields are linked to some nasty cattle and sheep diseases which can cause serious harm. The Union encourages those with dogs to be responsible for the health of livestock, and the message is clear - if in the country, lift poo; if living adjacent to fields with livestock, don't dump dog poo in field but dispose of responsibly.

The two diseases of particular concern that can be present as a result of faeces on farmland are neosporosis and sarcocystosis.

Neosporosis can cause abortions in cattle and is thought to be responsible for the highest percentage of all cattle abortions reported in the UK. Neospora eggs are produced by infected dogs and excreted in their faeces. Cattle will then become infected if they eat food, i.e. grass, or drink water contaminated with the eggs.
Sarcocystosis is also caused by parasites, which can use dogs as intermediate hosts, and similarly the eggs are produced and excreted in faeces.

In terms of both these diseases, faeces from infected dogs can contaminate pasture and animal feed, water or bedding. There is currently no licensed vaccine or drugs available for these diseases."

Dog Walkers Urged to Clean Up Faeces on Farmland

www.nfus.org.uk

 

[Millionwords]

"Parasites found in some dog faeces can result in the abortions of cattle and death in sheep ...

... dog faeces in fields are linked to some nasty cattle and sheep diseases which can cause serious harm. The Union encourages those with dogs to be responsible for the health of livestock, and the message is clear - if in the country, lift poo; if living adjacent to fields with livestock, don't dump dog poo in field but dispose of responsibly.

The two diseases of particular concern that can be present as a result of faeces on farmland are neosporosis and sarcocystosis.

Neosporosis can cause abortions in cattle and is thought to be responsible for the highest percentage of all cattle abortions reported in the UK. Neospora eggs are produced by infected dogs and excreted in their faeces. Cattle will then become infected if they eat food, i.e. grass, or drink water contaminated with the eggs.
Sarcocystosis is also caused by parasites, which can use dogs as intermediate hosts, and similarly the eggs are produced and excreted in faeces.

In terms of both these diseases, faeces from infected dogs can contaminate pasture and animal feed, water or bedding. There is currently no licensed vaccine or drugs available for these diseases."

Dog Walkers Urged to Clean Up Faeces on Farmland

www.nfus.org.uk

Farmers tend to be very concerned about dog walkers leaving poo. So the many poo's by hounds must be of considerable concern?!

 

[Clodagh]

Presumably not or the farmers wouldn’t allow them on their land (the ones who give permission I mean). And I’m pretty sure regular worming would prevent the transmission of worm related parasites.

 

[Sandstone1]

Presumably not or the farmers wouldn’t allow them on their land (the ones who give permission I mean). And I’m pretty sure regular worming would prevent the transmission of worm related parasites.

There is no treatment or vaccine for neosporosis. Its more common in dogs fed infected meat.... What are hounds fed??? Do hounds get wormed and vaccinated any way? I have no idea if they get routine vet care.

 

[FestiveG]

There is no treatment or vaccine for neosporosis. Its more common in dogs fed infected meat.... What are hounds fed??? Do hounds get wormed and vaccinated any way? I have no idea if they get routine vet care.

The ones I know certainly do and are never fed dodgy meat. There is no treatment or vaccine for the disease, but regular worming does prevent infection, as far as I know.

 

[skinnydipper]

Is fallen stock fed to fox hounds?

 

[Sandstone1]

Is fallen stock fed to fox hounds?

Certainly used to be around here anyway.

 

[Clodagh]

Is fallen stock fed to fox hounds?

Some packs yes. Most, probably.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Regular worming does prevent toxocara canis infection.

Toxocara Canis

Toxocara canis is a roundworm which primarily affects dogs. Although it doesn’t commonly cause disease in adult dogs, symptoms can be severe in young puppies. More importantly, Toxocara Canis can infest humans as an intermediate host, causing several different syndromes. How is Toxocara Canis...

www.thehealthypetclub.co.uk

How can I prevent Toxocara Canis infection?
Toxocara can be easily prevented or treated with prescription wormers. These are available as liquid, tablet or spot-on formulations, and can be prescribed by your vet. Adult dogs should be wormed every 3-6 months. Females should be wormed during pregnancy; usually in the third trimester. Puppies should be wormed at 2, 5 and 7-8 weeks of age then monthly until they reach 6 months old.

Nonetheless, wormed or not, dog fouling without picking up in public places is a very anti social practice much disapproved of on this forum. Why should hunts not be expected to poo pick after their hounds have crapped in public places such towns, villages, on the verge outside private properties? Just because they've never bothered to pick up in the past doesn't mean that it was ever acceptable practice.

If hunts have to be forced by the council or by the police to comply with accepted environmental practice because they don't think such rules apply to them, good, let them be forced. Though what a waste of everyone's time that is - if only they conducted themselves in a responsible manner in the first place .

 

[Clodagh]

Yes they should pick up both horse and hound muck on private land and public roads where you would normally expect it to be picked up.
Farms, amazingly, are generally still regarded as private land and i have never heard of a farmer giving permission to the hunt and then complaining about muck.

 

[rabatsa]

The local pack of beagles stopped feeding flesh about 15 years ago and the foxhounds about 10 years ago.

The fallen stock service they provide all go for incineration.

 

[Koweyka]

Def not wrong in this instance. The hounds were redirected by the sabs hunting horns into danger.

No they weren’t.

 

[Koweyka]

Police rural crime team were out in full force again at local pack's last meet of the season with scrambler bikes, a drone and 4x4s. Let's hope that next season that local pack employs a less inflammatory choice of huntsman, maybe even one without a conviction for illegal fox hunting .

It's been confirmed that the Meynell have folded.

Nope, the rumour is Truscott from the Meynall another fox killer….

 

[TGM]

There is no treatment or vaccine for neosporosis. Its more common in dogs fed infected meat.... What are hounds fed??? Do hounds get wormed and vaccinated any way? I have no idea if they get routine vet care.

I suspect it varies from hunt to hunt. I know our local bloodhound pack are fed a commercial kibble and are wormed and vaccinated.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I've just clocked that I've amended how I describe my previous riding experience when booking in for day treks or trail rides.

I'd have thought nothing in the past of telling a horsey establishment that I've hunted over all sorts of country - it's relevant to my capabilities. But times have changed, and hunting is much more disapproved of even within professional horsey circles. So now I just say that I've ridden across country at speed, leaving out the fact that I was following hounds at the time.

 

[GSD Woman]

Tiddlypom,

That's just sad.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I've just clocked that I've amended how I describe my previous riding experience when booking in for day treks or trail rides.

I'd have thought nothing in the past of telling a horsey establishment that I've hunted over all sorts of country - it's relevant to my capabilities. But times have changed, and hunting is much more disapproved of even within professional horsey circles. So now I just say that I've ridden across country at speed, leaving out the fact that I was following hounds at the time.

Well I'm delighted to find that I've been asked by someone offering transport and another livery if I hunt or am pro-hunt. If the answer was yes they wouldn't have dealt with me. Absolutely delighted about that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Fox hunt meets for final time after 250 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-64915402

One of Scotland's oldest fox hunts has announced it has come to an end after more than 250 years. After meeting regularly since 1771, the Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire Foxhounds held their final meet at their base in Houston last weekend. A new law that tightened restrictions around hunting with dogs came into force three days later.

It is the second hunting announcement in recent weeks, after Fife Foxhounds said they were disbanding for "financial" reasons.

 

[minesadouble]

Well I'm delighted to find that I've been asked by someone offering transport and another livery if I hunt or am pro-hunt. If the answer was yes they wouldn't have dealt with me. Absolutely delighted about that.

Would you have the same.opinon if they had asked if you were Vegan and said they would have refused to deal with you if you were?
Discrimination is discrimination.

 

[ycbm]

Would you have the same.opinon if they had asked if you were Vegan and said they would have refused to deal with you if you were?
Discrimination is discrimination.

Discrimination for personal reasons on the grounds of moral values isn't illegal. I wouldn't have any problem if a vegan didn't want a meat eater (me) in their car and I once blanked a previously good friend because she wouldn't stop dating married and engaged men.

 

[ycbm]

Fox hunt meets for final time after 250 years https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-64915402

One of Scotland's oldest fox hunts has announced it has come to an end after more than 250 years. After meeting regularly since 1771, the Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire Foxhounds held their final meet at their base in Houston last weekend. A new law that tightened restrictions around hunting with dogs came into force three days later.

It is the second hunting announcement in recent weeks, after Fife Foxhounds said they were disbanding for "financial" reasons.

Sheer coincidence that their money troubles arose after being told they could no longer use fox scent to pretend to lay their trails?
.

 

[CrunchieBoi]

Sheer coincidence that their money troubles arose after being told they could no longer use fox scent to pretend to lay their trails?
.

No need for that particular smokescreen up here. The law had previously been that a full pack could be used to flush a fox to waiting guns.

The reality was a bit different as you can probably guess. Lots of "accidents" when the fox didn't bolt in the right direction and so on.

 

[GSD Woman]

Discrimination for personal reasons on the grounds of moral values isn't illegal. I wouldn't have any problem if a vegan didn't want a meat eater (me) in their car and I once blanked a previously good friend because she wouldn't stop dating married and engaged men.

Those are all examples of non-businesses declining to deal with another person on moral grounds.

Question, is it legal for a business to refuse services based on personal bias? Can a bakery refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple?

A horse transport and livery offer services to the public don't they? So a member of the public trying to engage a business can be turned down for moral reasons? We're not talking about about murder of another human here.

 

[Red-1]

Those are all examples of non-businesses declining to deal with another person on moral grounds.

Question, is it legal for a business to refuse services based on personal bias? Can a bakery refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple?

It is not about them being a business as much as that being gay is a protected characteristic so no, a company can't refuse on those grounds. Neither being vegan or a meat eater are protected characteristics, so yes, you can discriminate, even if you are a business. Not that it would be good business sense, or kind, in either instance, IMO.


What are protected characteristics?

It is against the law to discriminate against someone because of:

• age
• disability
• gender reassignment
• marriage and civil partnership
• pregnancy and maternity
• race
• religion or belief
• sex
• sexual orientation

 

[GSD Woman]

Neither being vegan or a meat eater are protected characteristics, so yes, you can discriminate, even if you are a business. Not that it would be good business sense, or kind, in either instance, IMO.

Just so I understand, a business can discriminate as long as it isn't against a protected characteristic. You're correct, not good business sense, especially as hunting with foxhounds is on its way out.
I follow Brian May on Instagram. He posted something about "clean boot" hunting a month or 2 ago. I hope that at least stays legal. I like watching dogs work out scent problems and if it allows interested parties to have a good run across country IMHO it does no harm. The runner will know with certainty which fields are off limits and be able to stay away from family homes, livestock and private land that shouldn't be crossed.

 

[teapot]

Just so I understand, a business can discriminate as long as it isn't against a protected characteristic. You're correct, not good business sense, especially as hunting with foxhounds is on its way out.
I follow Brian May on Instagram. He posted something about "clean boot" hunting a month or 2 ago. I hope that at least stays legal. I like watching dogs work out scent problems and if it allows interested parties to have a good run across country IMHO it does no harm. The runner will know with certainty which fields are off limits and be able to stay away from family homes, livestock and private land that shouldn't be crossed.

Just had a look - he's actually done a great job of showing what clean boot hunting is about. The issue is I feel hunts will cease to exist because of their current actions, and sadly take the clean boot hunts with them.