mle22
Well-Known Member
Going by some of the replies in this thread its no wonder people who hunt are seen the way they are!
Hunts woman hits proteste
- Thread starter asmp
- Start date
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
I simply cannot agree there is fault on both sides. It is unlawful of anybody in any circumstance to interfere with the horse any rider is upon. No matter what the circumstances.
Allow me to use the scenario of one being confronted by a burglar in one's home. The law allows one to use reasonable force, when one is being threatened and that is exactly what was happening because the person was on a horse.
I absolutely guarantee that any equine expert witness and I stress equine expert witness, recognised by the courts, will support the rider's defence and any civil claim they may make, as to the risk to the horse.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
I have been out with my children when the sabs are out and it can be frightening but you just have to smile sweetly and wish them good morning.
I have no ideas how the incident happened, its true they go out to get a reaction. Most of them do not know anything about horses and they can get very close, not just to intimidate but just from lack of knowledge of how unpredictable horses can be, couple with foul language and its a volatile mix.
As to letting them watch the trail being laid, farmers have enough problems with people wandering on to their land without inviting a set of people who often have extreme views and the landowner is a sitting target, literally with property to lose. Its doubtful they would believe it anyway.
I have no ideas how the incident happened, its true they go out to get a reaction. Most of them do not know anything about horses and they can get very close, not just to intimidate but just from lack of knowledge of how unpredictable horses can be, couple with foul language and its a volatile mix.
As to letting them watch the trail being laid, farmers have enough problems with people wandering on to their land without inviting a set of people who often have extreme views and the landowner is a sitting target, literally with property to lose. Its doubtful they would believe it anyway.
fburton
Well-Known Member
Does that include police attempting to apprehend a criminal on horseback? Presumably they would have to figure a way of getting the rider off without touching or otherwise interfering with the mount. Amazing if true!
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
Bet the sabs wouldn't act like this if horses had teeth like a shark.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Clearly you have not read my earlier post on this thread with respect to the police a) herding crowds with police horses and b) dealing with individuals interfering with police horses in any circumstances.
That said in the latter element, as I said in the post they will find themselves whacked with a nightstick. I.e the long truncheon carried somtimes in the manner of a sabre to the rear of the saddle Or in this picture in front of the knee roll for ease of drawing. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...hWPC-wKHZGNAM4Q9QEINTAD#imgrc=O1pyNr4bXtSooM:
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Bojingles
Well-Known Member
Indeed. I have to say, the party I feel really sorry for is the poor bloody horse.
fburton
Well-Known Member
To clarify, I was referring to a scenario where the criminal was on horseback.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
If hunts didn't break the law and continue to deliberately hunt foxes there would be no need for hunt monitors to behave in a aggressive way.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
so how do you explain them bothering bloodhounds then?
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
Possibly they don't trust any hunt to behave properly and within the law
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don't think there is ever any record of a bloodhound even considering a fox, they weren't bred for it. You would think there time would be better spent elsewhere, with say, um, foxhounds?
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Well yes, but you said there was no need for 'monitors to behave aggressively' if hunts weren't breaking the law.
Frankly I don't think anyone should be behaving aggressively regardless and certainly not as per the other incident earlier this week driving a car at bloodhound followers who are chasing a human!
When out with foxhounds I've seen the police out more than I have monitors so I don't think they are doing a terrible job at upholding the law.
Frankly I don't think anyone should be behaving aggressively regardless and certainly not as per the other incident earlier this week driving a car at bloodhound followers who are chasing a human!
When out with foxhounds I've seen the police out more than I have monitors so I don't think they are doing a terrible job at upholding the law.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I haven't ever seen organised sabbing of any drag hunt or bloodhound hunt Ester, and I've done plenty of it. One off idiots shouting abuse who get very embarrassed when you politely explain that you are hunting a man, yes, but not sabbing. I don't believe that it happens on any significant level. These sabs are annoyed that hunting of fox continues. If it stopped, so would they.
But the law, as you know, is framed to allow hunts to lay a weak scent, and not to call the hounds off when they divert onto a fox. So it's going to continue for years and years yet.
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Wagtail
Horse servant
Shocking, That woman went back for more and charged them again. She is completely out of control of her anger and should not be riding a horse in that state. Totally and utterly wrong IMO. She will be lucky not to get a prison sentence. Sabs shouldn't be tresspassing, but she should not charge at people and then use her whip on one. She was not under any threat herself so why charge at people on foot? Just stupid. The rest of the hunts people were impeccably behaved, but she lost it.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I don't think it happens very often, but it's been reported enough for me to do an eye roll, I've not done the calendar but it seems to be when the foxhunters aren't in proper season/there is no one foxhunting much on that day of the week.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I don't really understand what bloodhounds have got to do with it.
My point is that hunt monitors have a right to be out watching what's going on and if nothing is being done wrong why do people get so angry with them?
Fair enough some of them can get stroppy but so can the hunt.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
hunt monitors do not have a right to be out watching on private land. People get angry because they are frequently trespassing, and sometimes either cause direct injury to horses/hounds or encourage them to head in dangerous directions like heading towards railway lines. Many of them can get more than stroppy and can be quite violent.
bloodhounds came up because you said that if hunts weren't still hunting foxes sabs/monitors wouldn't need to be out. Yet hunts (bloodhounds and drag hunts) which have never ever hunted fox only people, even when it was legal still get sabbed so that argument doesn't seem to totally follow.
bloodhounds came up because you said that if hunts weren't still hunting foxes sabs/monitors wouldn't need to be out. Yet hunts (bloodhounds and drag hunts) which have never ever hunted fox only people, even when it was legal still get sabbed so that argument doesn't seem to totally follow.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Ester, don't confuse monitors and sabs.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Ah yes my bad, I only used that term because of replying to the post above. I should have added an additional bit after the first sentence because I went and added that as I was typing.
I do suspect for the people getting angry the lines between the two become blurred though, hence their reactions.
I do suspect for the people getting angry the lines between the two become blurred though, hence their reactions.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
And yet you've just been told that hunt monitors don't normally follow bloodhounds?
Trespassing is usually a civil matter and some hunts are certainly not above trespass themselves.
Yet again my question is if there is nothing to hide and hunts are working within the law why worry?
You can't really expect everyone just to turn a blind eye to people breaking the law can you?
Anyway I'm off now as this is going round in circles.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
and I agreed that it doesn't happen that often- you even quoted the post where I said that!?
But that isn't to say never, and I was just trying to get to what you thought their reasons would be given the reasoning that you had written for monitors/sabs/antis being out and you answered that for me way up there ^^ somewhere by saying that they don't trust people even doing those activities not to be hunting fox.
I think people worry because of what has happened to people or themselves in the past in similar situations, I think that is normal human nature.
I don't think I have suggested anywhere that I would expect people to turn a blind eye to the law being broken, in fact I know I haven't I have just tried to answer the questions you have put.
But that isn't to say never, and I was just trying to get to what you thought their reasons would be given the reasoning that you had written for monitors/sabs/antis being out and you answered that for me way up there ^^ somewhere by saying that they don't trust people even doing those activities not to be hunting fox.
I think people worry because of what has happened to people or themselves in the past in similar situations, I think that is normal human nature.
I don't think I have suggested anywhere that I would expect people to turn a blind eye to the law being broken, in fact I know I haven't I have just tried to answer the questions you have put.
ozpoz
Well-Known Member
She does look confrontational to start with. I couldn't say she was trying to ride someone down though - would you really put yourself at risk in that way?
However, the man was deliberately holding on to the reins and could have caused a serious accident to both horse and rider. At that point, I don't blame her for hitting him. You can hear the other sab shouting at him to let go.
Poor horse. It would have been sensible to take him away from the situation which looked very rough on him.
However, the man was deliberately holding on to the reins and could have caused a serious accident to both horse and rider. At that point, I don't blame her for hitting him. You can hear the other sab shouting at him to let go.
Poor horse. It would have been sensible to take him away from the situation which looked very rough on him.
GTRJazz
Well-Known Member
Video is now on a couple of non horse sites with big hits 1.3k quite a few people saying the do not like fox hunting but would do the same thing as her , poor horse etc.
RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
He's lucky she didn't have a hunting crop, if someone had done that to any of ours I would have rammed it up his arse.
FYI the horse in the footage is wary of men anyway - the level of cruelty shown in that video is only really evident to equine people, and even then, perhaps only those who have had to deal with rehabilitating very nervy horses.
FYI the horse in the footage is wary of men anyway - the level of cruelty shown in that video is only really evident to equine people, and even then, perhaps only those who have had to deal with rehabilitating very nervy horses.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
If the horse is a rehabbed nervy type, why on earth did she put him in that situation?
Rowreach
👀
Yes, makes what she did even more silly really.
Wagtail
Horse servant
Then she should not be charging at men, yanking his mouth and ramming him with her spurs!
Hexx
Well-Known Member
Hunt Monitors vs Sabs
As far as I am aware, neither group have any right, express permission or legal authority to follow, monitor, disrupt, take photos (without permission), approach horses/riders, trespass on land in order to follow a hunt.
If there is a reason to doubt that hunts are not following the law, then isn't this the police's jurisdiction to ensure that the law is followed?
As far as I am aware, neither group have any right, express permission or legal authority to follow, monitor, disrupt, take photos (without permission), approach horses/riders, trespass on land in order to follow a hunt.
If there is a reason to doubt that hunts are not following the law, then isn't this the police's jurisdiction to ensure that the law is followed?