Hunts woman hits proteste

Cecile

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I can sort of understand her being pumped up and flying towards them, everyone looses the plot occasionally, I get the fact that she lashed out when he took the reins although its been counted as 17 hits with the crop <bit excessive>
I don't get the waving the crop about like a screaming banshee when it was in effect all over and the horse was then back in her control or the fact that they were all walking away with their backs to her <with hands carefully placed behind their backs in some instances> and she came flying up the field towards them again to have another go, she was obviously not worried about her or her horses safety, in fear of anything or needing to get away from them due to any distress

I think she lost the plot and shot herself in the foot with that footage, she would of been better off bursting into tears or carefully falling/climbing off the horse when he grabbed the reins, Jo Public would of warmed to her

I tend to think they achieved their goal for the day and will be absolutely delighted with her entire performance and the level of interest in their film
 

Cecile

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Hunt Monitors vs Sabs

As far as I am aware, neither group have any right, express permission or legal authority to follow, monitor, disrupt, take photos (without permission), approach horses/riders, trespass on land in order to follow a hunt.

If there is a reason to doubt that hunts are not following the law, then isn't this the police's jurisdiction to ensure that the law is followed?
There is no law to stop anyone taking photo's otherwise hatcam's, dashcam's and all the other cams would be illegal, every phone available now has someone attached to it taking selfies, film or photo's, it is called Citizen Journalism and is a feature of modern day life and the police rally around asking for film clips from the general public when a problem occurs in an area

Trespass is just a civil matter, I doubt the police could give a rats ar$e about if the law was being followed regarding hunting but obviously now have to investigate a complaint of assault which has been made
 

ycbm

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Hunt Monitors vs Sabs

As far as I am aware, neither group have any right, express permission or legal authority to follow, monitor, disrupt, take photos (without permission), approach horses/riders, trespass on land in order to follow a hunt.
You can take photos of whoever and whatever you like when they are in plain view.

If there is a reason to doubt that hunts are not following the law, then isn't this the police's jurisdiction to ensure that the law is followed?
No. Police investigate crime. The crime is normally reported by other people. You generally have to establish that there is good reason to believe that there has been a crime before the police will investigate it.
 

Tiddlypom

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Hunt Monitors vs Sabs
The new breed of hunt monitors are savvy. They video and photograph from areas where they are not trespassing like the road or a right of way. They do not interfere with or harrass the hunt, they simply collect photographic and video material which could be used as evidence if needed. They are nothing like the hunt sabs who do indeed do all sorts of illegal, violent and unpleasant things.

If a particular hunt is trail hunting legally, why on earth would they be afraid of being monitored? You'd think they'd welcome the chance to demonstrate they are indeed 'trail hunting' and not setting out to hunt as per pre ban.

Maybe this is a simplistic and naive view :rolleyes3:.

ETA I believe that monitors do not mask themselves. More brownie points for them.
 
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Plainly the persons and person attacking Jane Goring, represented the thin end of the wedge of revolutionary terrorism.

The police do little or nothing so far as properly policing any hunt gathering. I hope this episode instills in the police, the need to get in their 4 x 4's and or a mounted provision for a proper presence, at all times and throughout the day.
 

meleeka

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The police do little or nothing so far as properly policing any hunt gathering. I hope this episode instills in the police, the need to get in their 4 x 4's and or a mounted provision for a proper presence, at all times and throughout the day.
I think this would be a waste of police resources and I wouldn?t support it. People who hunt are already seen as upper class toffs and having a police escort every time they go hunting isn?t going to help change that view. A friend has had a farm hand do the same thing to her. Nobody would suggest she gets the police to accompany her in case it happens again!

I think the woman in the video played right into their hands. She didn?t need to ride at him and put her horse in that situation (especially if it?s a nervous type as mentioned above). She lost her temper and ought to be as ashamed as the man holding the reins.
 
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Before I rushed to pass judgment, I did take the time to trawl the net and then came up with a very different story. There were 16 sabs, this woman had become separated with a juvenile on his horse and the sab had already punched the horse in the mouth. Now that throws a different light doesn't it? Do any of you remember the old Guardian ad, showing a tattooed man chasing a woman? And how that was judged...yet when the video was extended, it showed the man trying to return a bag to said woman. The point being is you need the broader picture before passing judgement. Years ago when out hacking with someone else's child I was surrounded by abusive antis who thought I was hunting. I was terrified. End of. They were called off but had I been grabbed and threatened I would have behaved in the same way.
 

fburton

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Before I rushed to pass judgment, I did take the time to trawl the net and then came up with a very different story. There were 16 sabs, this woman had become separated with a juvenile on his horse and the sab had already punched the horse in the mouth. Now that throws a different light doesn't it?
It's certainly material to understanding what went on, and why. However, it doesn't excuse or even justify the woman's later behaviour. So it's not quite the "night and day" difference that your Guardian ad example illustrated so well.

That said, I condemn violence - physical or verbal - whichever side it is coming from. I'm sorry you were subjected to it yourself. :frown3:
 
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Very dangerous when people take the law into their own hands imo.
I don't buy the argument that "if the hunt has nothing to hide it shouldn't matter" either.
In my experience the majority of sabs seem to out of their way to intimidate, cause trouble and ignore private property. They endanger hounds and horses and even riders in some cases with their stupid actions. My local pack have been harrassed every season and are perfectly legal in all ways.
 

ycbm

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Before I rushed to pass judgment, I did take the time to trawl the net and then came up with a very different story. There were 16 sabs, this woman had become separated with a juvenile on his horse and the sab had already punched the horse in the mouth. Now that throws a different light doesn't it?

Yes, it makes it totally inexplicable why she chose to take the horse anywhere near the sabs again!
 

Cecile

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The new breed of hunt monitors are savvy. They video and photograph from areas where they are not trespassing like the road or a right of way. They do not interfere with or harrass the hunt, they simply collect photographic and video material which could be used as evidence if needed. They are nothing like the hunt sabs who do indeed do all sorts of illegal, violent and unpleasant things.

If a particular hunt is trail hunting legally, why on earth would they be afraid of being monitored? You'd think they'd welcome the chance to demonstrate they are indeed 'trail hunting' and not setting out to hunt as per pre ban.

Maybe this is a simplistic and naive view :rolleyes3:.

ETA I believe that monitors do not mask themselves. More brownie points for them.
I once by chance came across a monitor's website, they are so well organised its quite unbelievable,
it was all about the law regarding PRoW etc <written for them by lawyers> what they can and cannot do,
how to go about gaining useful footage, its was quite fascinating how well briefed they were, even who to contact and what to do if you were arrested

Hunts need to get their act together and start acting in unison, those people all stood near to each other, one filming and they all walked away together, that horse woman was trying to take on the world on her own, being filmed the whole time whilst the rest of the field watched from a distance

I once watched a film where people were robbing a shop, a dear old lady rushed up and was bashing the robbers with her bag or umbrella and do you know what the people in the street were doing, filming her until some bright spark got off his backside and helped her, is that what we have all become jeez......
 
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If that person was to walk down a London street, dressed in black with a balaclava on, you could bet they would be swamped by police.
This is just nonsense I'm afraid. For several years there were people in black with balaclavas and scream masks over the top protesting outside a particular organisation in London. May well still be there for all I know.

Edited to add: no comment on if that is a good thing. Just pointing out that masked protests also take place (and in fact more masked) in London too.
 
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If it was possible to film the whole proceedings while protecting the privacy of those involved, would you be in favour of doing this to show that hunts really have nothing to hide?
I would see no problem at all. What I take issue with is monitors taking the law into their own hands and making a nuisance of themselves.
If they wish to follow the hunt, didn't try to intimidate, or put hounds/horses/riders at risk, and didn't trespass on private land I would have no issue.
However in my experience whether the hunt is genuinely following the law is an insignificant detail to these people. They are far more concerned with intimidating and causing as much disruption as possible.
 

fburton

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I would see no problem at all. What I take issue with is monitors taking the law into their own hands and making a nuisance of themselves.
If they wish to follow the hunt, didn't try to intimidate, or put hounds/horses/riders at risk, and didn't trespass on private land I would have no issue.
However in my experience whether the hunt is genuinely following the law is an insignificant detail to these people. They are far more concerned with intimidating and causing as much disruption as possible.
No arguments with this - "sab" behaviour from monitors is unacceptable.
 
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He's lucky she didn't have a hunting crop, if someone had done that to any of ours I would have rammed it up his arse.

FYI the horse in the footage is wary of men anyway - the level of cruelty shown in that video is only really evident to equine people, and even then, perhaps only those who have had to deal with rehabilitating very nervy horses.
Hunting is an excellent way to produce sound, mannerly horses and she had every right to be there, unlike her assailant. However even an experienced horse might strike out in that situation so she had to remove that fool for his own safety. A couple of stings with a whip is preferable to being trampled, this should be obvious.
 
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I once by chance came across a monitor's website, they are so well organised its quite unbelievable,
it was all about the law regarding PRoW etc <written for them by lawyers> what they can and cannot do,
how to go about gaining useful footage, its was quite fascinating how well briefed they were, even who to contact and what to do if you were arrested

Hunts need to get their act together and start acting in unison, those people all stood near to each other, one filming and they all walked away together, that horse woman was trying to take on the world on her own, being filmed the whole time whilst the rest of the field watched from a distance

I once watched a film where people were robbing a shop, a dear old lady rushed up and was bashing the robbers with her bag or umbrella and do you know what the people in the street were doing, filming her until some bright spark got off his backside and helped her, is that what we have all become jeez......
Excellent post
 

KautoStar1

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Hunt Monitors vs Sabs

As far as I am aware, neither group have any right, express permission or legal authority to follow, monitor, disrupt, take photos (without permission), approach horses/riders, trespass on land in order to follow a hunt.

If there is a reason to doubt that hunts are not following the law, then isn't this the police's jurisdiction to ensure that the law is followed?
exactly !
 

Hexx

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This is just nonsense I'm afraid. For several years there were people in black with balaclavas and scream masks over the top protesting outside a particular organisation in London. May well still be there for all I know.

Edited to add: no comment on if that is a good thing. Just pointing out that masked protests also take place (and in fact more masked) in London too.
Sorry, don't agree. If the Police were aware that this was their way of protesting, in an orderly manner, then yes, I could see why it may not be actionable.

However, put a mask on and walk down the street in this day and age - see what happens .......
 
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I used to get on the tube in a body protector - that got me a seat alright...

But no, still disagree. Police are way too stretched for that. Plenty of hoody wearing/face half half covered in scarf types not being harassed by police around. There is undoubtedly a disproportionate (in the different % to % of population sense) amount of stop and search of some groups. But by no means all at all. You get some ve-ry strange outfits around...
 
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Yes, it makes it totally inexplicable why she chose to take the horse anywhere near the sabs again!
She stayed back to safeguard a young juvenile and they were separated from the others. What do you think these people would have done if they had managed to drag her off her horse?
 
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Luci07 there is no indication whatsoever that they tried to drag her off.

Given that she and the juvenile were mounted they were more than able to move away from people walking along on foot.
 

ycbm

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She stayed back to safeguard a young juvenile and they were separated from the others. What do you think these people would have done if they had managed to drag her off her horse?
Have you watched the video? She did not stay back anywhere. She deliberately approached the sabs before the rein grabbing event, and after it she charged a retreating group of sabs from behind!
 
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Have you watched the video? She did not stay back anywhere. She deliberately approached the sabs before the rein grabbing event, and after it she charged a retreating group of sabs from behind!
This is exactly what she was doing, I watched the whole video, using the horse to try and ride people down. She rides that unfortunate horse with zero care or consideration, yanking it round with the gag, digging in the spurs, forcing it into the sabs. Poor horse, what a horrible woman she is. Shame on her.
 
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This is exactly what she was doing, I watched the whole video, using the horse to try and ride people down. She rides that unfortunate horse with zero care or consideration, yanking it round with the gag, digging in the spurs, forcing it into the sabs. Poor horse, what a horrible woman she is. Shame on her.
Forget the whole pro hunt/anti hunt thing .... She appears to have put herself in that situation willingly, it was as if she was looking for a fight. Atrocious horsemanship (poor horse, who was an absolute saint by all accounts). No one should be grabbing anyone's reins of course, but she certainly behaved awfully. Then needlessly riding your horse at people? Really, what if one had fell and got his/her head stood on. Oh dear. Could have ended in culpable homicide... and for what.

Better to have just ridden on (away) surely.
 
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I would have gotten off said horse and smashed him one in the face.

All these balaclava clad morons intimidating women and children is ridiculous yet somehow legal.

Imagine if people just started clammering round their house in a balaclava just to 'monitor' them
 

Ceriann

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Having watched the video just now I'm struggling to see how the rider can justify the fiasco that unfolded. Forget the hunting debate, she could avoided that whole situation simply by not riding into that group, resulting in the rein grabbing etc. An avoidable situation that got way out of hand. Why put yourself and your horse in that situation is beyond me.
 
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I would have gotten off said horse and smashed him one in the face.

All these balaclava clad morons intimidating women and children is ridiculous yet somehow legal.

Imagine if people just started clammering round their house in a balaclava just to 'monitor' them
Really? So your response to your perceived intimidation on this video would be to "smash him one in the face". You know, you, the "balaclava clad morons" and the woman on the horse are really not so dissimilar..... What you have just said, and several others on here, is that it's okay for one side to be violent, but not the other?? Irrespective of what side you are on, pro or anti, this is not the answer and while the hunting community allow its members to behave like this, they cannot even begin to expect public sympathy - irrespective of what led up to this outburst. For what it's worth, I watched the video, I have my own opinion which is if one of my kids were the juvenile with this woman, I would be outraged by her behaviour in front of them. Just because you ride a horse, it doesn't give you the moral high ground to take matters into your own hands.
 
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Really? So your response to your perceived intimidation on this video would be to "smash him one in the face". You know, you, the "balaclava clad morons" and the woman on the horse are really not so dissimilar..... What you have just said, and several others on here, is that it's okay for one side to be violent, but not the other?? Irrespective of what side you are on, pro or anti, this is not the answer and while the hunting community allow its members to behave like this, they cannot even begin to expect public sympathy - irrespective of what led up to this outburst. For what it's worth, I watched the video, I have my own opinion which is if one of my kids were the juvenile with this woman, I would be outraged by her behaviour in front of them. Just because you ride a horse, it doesn't give you the moral high ground to take matters into your own hands.
Absolutely this ^^^
 
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