Equi
Well-Known Member
No I don’t think it will end his career but he will no longer be hailed as the hero he has always been seen as. It will hit him in the pocket somehow (though I suspect those pockets are already rather large)
I’m not sure what to think….
- Thread starter Mistletoeandawine
- Start date
scats
Well-Known Member
I feel like the action was a mixture of frustration/loss of patience. If he had stood behind it and continued to waggle the branch to encourage it via the noise, that would have been one thing. Or even rested it against its bum as encouragement, but I felt like it tipped into a loss of control/act of frustration. Yes, there is far worse abuse out there. Far, far worse, in fact. But still, that’s not the way I like to see an animal trained and I don’t think we should be ‘ok’ with it.
TPO
Well-Known Member
Never sure why the "there is worse that happens" or "others get away with it" are trotted out as excuses every time something like this happens.
Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.
Abuse of animals should be tackled at all levels regardless of the perpetrator or their achievements, social standing or wealth.
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
Yes. You don't really need an explanation why it is abusive to hit a horse over and over and over again do you? Really? If people want things to change, it needs to have a light shone on it every time it rears it's ugly head. That includes Mark Todd whaling on a horse to "train" it, riding schools allowing beatings to be given to their horses in lessons and any other cruelty you care to mention.
stangs
Well-Known Member
Also, if one person is in a relationship where their OH locks them up in the basement and has cut off their legs, and another in a relationship where their OH frequently yells at them and throws glassware in their direction: both people are in abusive relationships, regardless of the intensity of the abuse. Sure, one OH may be locked away for life, one may just be given a restraining order - but they're still both abusive.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
Embarrassing.
We've got to do far, far better than this.
We've got to do far, far better than this.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I'm neither. Look, don't get me wrong, I am utterly opposed to abuse of any animal and I have spent a considerable part of my life working with neglected and traumatised horses, dogs and other animals. But getting all aerated about this type of rough justice is misplaced when there is so much outright nastiness out there, often unrealised or unacknowledged. One of the many reasons I left the professional training world is because I wasn't prepared to do the things many considered necessary to get horses to the top. I have NEVER resorted to whaling the a*se off a horse to get to do something, but the idea that horses are trained to high levels with nothing but sugar lumps is naive .
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I agree wholeheartedly with this. EVERY form of abuse should be called out, at ALL levels - whether it's an olympian hitting a horse with a stick, badly fitting tack at a riding club, or a horse being left to starve. All are abuse and all are unacceptable.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
I have to admit that when teaching, I've never even chased a ridden horse with a lunge whip*. No point.
* Unless I was taking a lunge lesson, where I control the horse with a cavesson and a lunge line, and a lunge whip, while the rider works on their position.
* Unless I was taking a lunge lesson, where I control the horse with a cavesson and a lunge line, and a lunge whip, while the rider works on their position.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Probably because like always, there will be 48hrs of social media outrage before it becomes yesterday's news. Meanwhile far worse cases of abuse will go ignored and the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to right under their noses. That's what annoys me. That video is supposedly two years old, horse looks well cared for etc, lots more recent vids on the rider's instagram account, meanwhile how many horses got smacked around at BS across the UK today alone?
So a kid ineffectively using their stick is abusing their riding school pony? Shining a light every time it happens would end the industry in five minutes flat. Where do you draw the line?
Like Cortez, I'm pro calling out any abuse, but I'm really not sure some realise how precarious the situtation truly is when it comes to our hobby and industry at the moment, or indeed that outrage is aimed in the right directions.
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AmyMay
Situation normal
I think that most people involved with horses understand that, but we hope and expect better. And if such behaviour is made public it should be called out.
And those offended by such behaviour should not be ridiculed for their upset and concern.
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no one has said you can train to high levels with 'nothing but sugar lumps', or implied anything of the sort. That's gross hyperbole.
But you can be assertive, safe, and effective without resorting to giving the animal a hiding which it will learn nothing from.
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cross posted with amymay sorry
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
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sky1000
Well-Known Member
That clip seems so at odds with how he came across. He seemed so laid back and relaxed. He looks a bit demented in that clip - in the sense that he has lost it.
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FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
If you're hitting your horse ever with a stick/crop, you're doing it wrong.
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
The quote was a reply to a riding school horse being hit with a whip. Interesting how you downgrade that to a child ineffectively using their stick.
I think you'll find it's the ones sticking up for those who inflict this sort of abuse are the ones who turn a blind eye to it. Where do you draw the line?
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
If you are kicking your horse's ribs like a demented thing because you are 'too kind to use a whip', you are doing it more wrong.
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Quite! But just because booting them in the ribs is bad doesn't mean hitting them isn't bad.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Yes because on average kids with sticks on ponies is what riding schools are about. You took it to mean an adult beating something around, I didn't.
Utter ball-cocks. FWIW I quit a job of three years in part because the welfare of the horses wasn't considered enough. Sure they were cared for well but their workload was appalling. Please don't talk to me about turning a blind eye.
I think overworked horses being repeatedly kicked in the ribs, three or four hours a day is possibly far more abusive long term, than one too many hard smacks with a whip...
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Will you tell Carl/Charlotte/insert-well-known-trainer-here, or shall I?
DabDab
Ah mud, splendid
People pretty much have. And those comments read as naive to me as they seem to to Cortez.
Every high level dressage rider that I have had access to see a decent amount of their training has had an element of what I would describe as unethical practice. As a standard in horse sport horses are trained with pressure. And that pressure and the way it is applied routinely goes too far. In many ways all the main horse sports are rotten from the top down tbh.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And someone isn't condoning one abusive act just because they point out the bigger picture.
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
To be honest, if you ride at all you are being cruel. It is not in a horse's best interest to have a human sat on it, and be forced to work.
Do you ride?
Shilasdair
Patting her thylacine
To be fair, I don't think she knows the theory of equitation - she thinks you 'hit' horses with whips.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
This, in spades. ALL abuse needs to be called out, whether it's as in this video or starvation, neglect etc....it's all abuse. No matter how you dress it up there just isn't an excuse, EVER.
Mule
Well-Known Member
The beast used to be afraid of drains. I got him confident by leading him up to nose them then after a while put his feet in and then finally lunging him over. In saying this, I have 0.0% talent compared to Mark Todd, although, maybe more patience.
But ime, most people just beat them across so it's not exactly rare. We shouldn't pretend it's not the norm.
But ime, most people just beat them across so it's not exactly rare. We shouldn't pretend it's not the norm.
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
You are the one talking about blind eyes Teapot.
..... the hundreds commenting on fb/insta/tiktok will turn a blind eye to, right under their noses.
Put it under their noses and they'll do exactly what they've done here.
Hepsibah
Well-Known Member
That's a straw man argument.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Well they do turn a blind eye. You really think members of the public immediately call out what they see at BD/BS/BE, wider shows, warm ups, wider disciplines etc? While watching and having a coffee? I'm not so sure.
It's all too easy to be outraged and disgusted when it's in your social media timeline/behind a screen...
FlyingCircus
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter how well known or successful the person doing it is, it doesn't make it OK. I can only assume the success and fame make people who inflict pain on purpose sleep better at night...