If you found out your yard was sedating your horse..

[be positive]

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.

This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.

 

[sarahann1]

I can honestly only think of one reason I wouldn't go bat poop crazy and that's if either of mine needed sedation urgently or they'd hurt themselves or someone handling them.

Regularly giving your horse medication without your permission is disgusting behaviour, how anyone can think that's acceptable is beyond me.

Glad you've managed to make other arrangements OP, hopefully you can sort out something more practical for the longer term soon.

 

[D66]

This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.

this ^^^^
Also I'm shocked by the number of people, (not the OP), who say they would hit the YO! Why, what would that possibly achieve?

 

[Mike007]

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.

No ,there are better ways to deal with this. The OP,s own vet should be brought in asap. the evidence gathered and the matter referen to the RCVS. Someone prescribed the stuff and vets have been struck off for considerably less. It is a serious matter an needs to be refered to the proper authorities. ... And then let the +++t fall downwards.

 

[MiniMilton]

:eek3:

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

The vet that supplied the Sedalin is unlikely to get into any trouble at all. He probably supplied the medication for clipping particular horses & that is fine. The fact that the YO administered it to different horses is nothing to do with the vet. When a tube of sedalin is supplied not everyone uses the whole tube so there can be plenty over, specially on a big yard.

Regarding having bloods taken, before you do this I would make enquiries, possibly with a totally different vet, as to how long sedalin remains detectable in the body. If it is gone in 24 hours then it's a waste of time & money doing it when the horses are staying in as there won't be anything to find. You would need to arrange a visit for bloods on the day you believe it will be used.

As to if there is an offence in administering it or if you can make a case for some other offence I don't know but seek professional advice regarding the legal situation. I'm not generally in favor of the legal route as on many occasions it's a costly & not a very effectinve avenue to go down. On this occasion, if it is legally viable, I would pursue it.

 

[be positive]

No ,there are better ways to deal with this. The OP,s own vet should be brought in asap. the evidence gathered and the matter referen to the RCVS. Someone prescribed the stuff and vets have been struck off for considerably less. It is a serious matter an needs to be refered to the proper authorities. ... And then let the +++t fall downwards.

While I agree that this is situation totally wrong it is likely that the vet that has prescribed the sedalin did so for another horse for good reason, to think he could possibly be struck off because of a dishonest or incompetent YO is not really fair, it is down to the YO and the restricted turnout arrangements not a vet who will not be involved in the running of the yard. I have sedalin here, not much but enough to use in an emergency, it is left over from when I had it for a horse on box rest, it probably should be destroyed but it may be required so will stay until it is used or goes out of date, I will not be the only owner or YO who has some tucked away, not that I would use it in the circumstances in the OP but I could very easily and my vet would be none the wiser.

 

[Mike007]

My understanding was that the horse was being sedated on a regular basis ,that implies a lot of "spare" sedalin. Please dont tell me that the vet is an innocent bystander. He/she,has aa duty of care and if there is that much spare sedalin floating around then that vet has some very serious questions to answer!

 

[Marydoll]

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.

The OP hasnt said shes after money, and i believe a moral victory and letting the horse world in that area know the disgusting behaviour that is going on in that yard, the behaviour of the yo and staff at the yard is disgraceful.

 

[Queenbee]

This and taking legal action

This is true, no actual harm has been done and the YO will say in her defence that the sedation prevented the horse being harmed while turned out, there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action.
I would be furious, let everyone know why the horses were being moved, contact the vet involved as they are likely to be in the dark and should tighten up their practice but I cannot see any point in trying to take this further legally.

On the other hand, whilst yo was being a lazy *insert insult* and may say she was doing it to prevent harm! her actions were infact placing both horse and rider in potentially harmful situations, owner could have come a right cropper, as could her horse if she had decided to go jumping for the day.... Not something I'd want to do with sedalin in my horse!

 

[hnmisty]

I'd find out the facts and then I would go absolutely bezerk.

 

[MadBlackLab]

On the other hand, whilst yo was being a lazy *insert insult* and may say she was doing it to prevent harm! her actions were infact placing both horse and rider in potentially harmful situations, owner could have come a right cropper, as could her horse if she had decided to go jumping for the day.... Not something I'd want to do with sedalin in my horse!

Yes very dangerous to rider if they didn't know and rode or competed. It been an accident waiting to happen

 

[Queenbee]

this ^^^^
Also I'm shocked by the number of people, (not the OP), who say they would hit the YO! Why, what would that possibly achieve?

Would make me feel better, how dare someone administer any drug to someone else's horse without the owners expressed permission (unless it is in an emergency first aid situation) If someone hit my horse without my knowledge or agreement there wouldn't necessarily be any lasting damage, but I'd want to punch the living day lights out of them. Horses are not humans, but humans being administered drugs under such circumstances would be tantamount to assault, there are a number of potential and valid repercussions, the horse could have had an adverse reaction, sedalin also decreases in efficiency over time. What if said horse was a danger to clip unsedated and op went to clip her horse, sedated him with the normal dose and ended up injured because that dose didn't touch the sides because yo had had the horse popping it like candy on a daily basis, or how about competitions? What if one of yo's liveries competed, got drug tested, got banned from competing (I'm assuming its a banned substance)?! Damn right the yo deserves a bashing, and she certainly doesn't deserve any liveries! Someone like that who uses short cuts, and secretly drugs her liveries horses, is in my opinion incompetent. Seriously this post has made me angrier than anything I can remember.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.

Has anyone mentioned money? You really think this YO should be allowed to put other horses in her care at risk? Horses shouldn't be ridden for 36 hours after Sedalin administration - as others have said, that was an accident just waiting to happen.

 

[TrasaM]

I think there are a number of relevant questions here.
1. Is there proof that sedative was administered.
2. Had owner given permission for drug to be administered
3 had veterinary advise been sought prior to administration
4. Was owner informed that sedative had been administered
5 was any harm done to horse by the drug
6 was the owner placed in danger by her horse being drugged.

The very least I'd be looking fir would be a complete refund of all fees paid then revenge by making sure everyone knows what the yard is doing.

 

[armchair_rider]

If it's a competition yard could/should the drug testing authorities be informed? Especially if the YO is competing affiliated themselves.

I'd be absolutely furious in your place OP and i'd get my horses out of there ASAP (which I see you've done). However I think you need to tread carefully because you don't have much evidence - only the text and possibly blood test results. For that reason i'd be wary of publically naming and shaming - even if only to the other liveries. However I would report to all relevant authorities.

 

[Marydoll]

Violence while not the answer would be a very understandible reaction imo, the yo has in effect put both horse and rider at risk,absolutely terrible behaviour

 

[Luce85]

Horrified I have just read that, poor you! Glad you can get them out of there as soon as possible!
I assume from the text just mentioning your horse's name, that no other liveries have had the same problem? I would let all other liveries know, get a blood test ASAP and ensure anyone who thinks about joining the yard knows what they have been up to behind your back!
Outrageous behaviour from what should be a knowledgeable horseperson to own/manage a livery yard!

 

[NaeNae87]

That's horrible Gingerwitch.
Good to hear you are getting out of there. IF you do decide to go down the legal route, just be mindful of what you post on social media, DO NOT NAME AND SHAME. It can be seen as slander and used against you in court as evidence.
Get lots of evidence. Speak to vets about the time that the sedative is still in the blood stream as well as how long the horse is under the influence once it is administered as riding or competing on a horse that has been sedated is not only incredibly dangerous for both you and your horse, it is banned according to the FEI Cleansport guidelines.
I don't know if you would get any compensation, it is more likely a moral victory. It sounds like the YO has a large supply of the sedative, more than should be needed to sedate and clip one horse. Especially if the sedation is a regular occurrence on multiple horses, so the vet may well be investigated and maybe fined.
Good luck. xx

 

[Patterdale]

Before you get all over excited and waste money on a lawyer you have to remember that in order to sue somebody for money you have to be able to prove harm. Unless your horse has some ongoing issues as a result of the regular sedation the best you would get is a moral victory, but no money.

Best to chalk it down to experience and move on.

This.
There must be a lot of people with deep pockets on this thread!

And as for the person who suggested going after the vet for this and complaining to the RCVS......wow. There are some vindictive people about!
On a large yard it's VERY easy to stockpile sedalin, whilst telling the vet it's for clipping etc. I very much doubt that the vet is in cahoots with the YO and deserves to be 'struck off.' :rolleyes3:

 

[OldNag]

I am completely gobsmacked...no matter what the YO's "reasoning" for administering sedaline... how on earth does she think it is ok to do it without owner's knowledge or permission?
Glad you have got alternative livery sorted GW.
I don't see any point in suing as you would have to prove loss. I don't actually see what you can do, but absolutely worth ringing BHS helpline.

 

[RunToEarth]

God, my blood runs cold for everyone on that yard who are riding/schooling/jumping horses which may still be smacked up to the eyeballs on dope. I understand the stuff has a place but this is a very deceptive use. I'm not sure I would be taking legal action, but I would be letting the other liveries know.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

THEY ARE SEDATING FOR TURNOUT??? HORSES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO EAT WHEN UNDER SEDATION!!!

You have evidence so sue and hopefully for the sake of others do what you can to finish them ie.e sue, verbally ruin reputation so nobody wants to keep horse there etc.

 

[Hackie]

I had a very similar thing happen, I picked up a horse that had been with a trainer for much longer than intended and discovered the horse had been hormoned within an inch of his life. He was MASSIVE. And he'd almost foundered.

I never said anything to the trainer (no point, the horse was back, although I had bloods done, in case needed in the future) and I don't see the point of legal advice unless you can demonstrate damages, but I told everyone who would listen, whenever her name came up. I still do, and I mean anyone, so that people don't inadvertently put their horses with her.

 

[mjcssjw2]

its to be hoped nobody competing gets blood tested - how will they explain that!

 

[Patterdale]

I had a very similar thing happen, I picked up a horse that had been with a trainer for much longer than intended and discovered the horse had been hormoned within an inch of his life. He was MASSIVE. And he'd almost foundered.

I never said anything to the trainer (no point, the horse was back, although I had bloods done, in case needed in the future) and I don't see the point of legal advice unless you can demonstrate damages, but I told everyone who would listen, whenever her name came up. I still do, and I mean anyone, so that people don't inadvertently put their horses with her.

You 'never said anything to the trainer'?

:eek3:

I will NEVER understand this attitude.

 

[paulineh]

THEY ARE SEDATING FOR TURNOUT??? HORSES ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO EAT WHEN UNDER SEDATION!!!.

A small amount of Sedaline is often given to a horse that is being turned out for the first time after Box Rest.

GW get all the evidence you can, ask for receipts for any extras that have been done, ie Physio , clipping , Farriery etc. as you have only been at the yard for less than 2weeks I feel that unless you have asked for the above then these things have not been done and the reason for asking the vet for the Sedaline is false.

Get bloods ,keep the txt message,talk to any other liveries (you feel you can trust as some will go straight back to the YO). Take advice from the BHS or your horse insurance, many will give you advice for nothing.

Ask the YO why they sedated your horse. Many mobile phones these days can record a conversation ,just do that . Also speak to the vet that issued the Sedaline and inform him/her that this was bought to give your horse without permission. They ave the right to know what that YO is doing.

There are some good honest Yards around but I do find that many are not hence I now have my own yard.

Come the New Year you could try and find a small yard you and a friend can rent.

Good luck and have a Happy Christmas

 

[jrp204]

Is there anything in your contract about 'treating' your horse while on their yard, they may use this to cover their arses. I think sueing is extreme and also hugely costly but highlighting the issues to HH and the BHS if it is a licensed yard may put a stop to it, I bet it is more widespread than we think. I would also be phoning the vets.
Hope the move goes well GW.

 

[Honey08]

I don't think that you are allowed to record someone unless you've told them??

Talking to the vet that they use is a really good idea. I wouldn't think they would be very impressed, the vet, if anyone, is the one that would get in trouble. They could have just been being helpful - our vet leaves us bute and antibiotics in case we get snowed in and need it... Yard owners like this spoil it for everyone.

As for the slander angle, is it slander if you've taken bloods to prove it?

 

[Hackie]

You 'never said anything to the trainer'?

:eek3:

I will NEVER understand this attitude.

Why? She knew what she had done, me discussing it with her wasn't going to change anything, in fact knowing her for a number of years before this instance, she'd just deny it in the face of all evidence. She was very arrogant, and one of those 'can't be told' types.

I was more concerned about getting the horse right again, and was in no way interested in a hoo-ha over it, as what was done was done.

ETA - we had finished using her as a trainer, and to be honest this was one of a number of things that I had disliked about the way the horse was treated, however having been in lock down (long boring story) I literally had no way of removing the horse from her care.

But to be honest, I never spoke to her again, period - not even to say hello to as I pass her at competitions.

And I tell people why.