skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
That is up to you, but it isn't a position you can take, in my mind, if you intend to get round Badminton.
Prove me wrong at your leisure.
inconsiderate whip use at badminton
- Thread starter equinim
- Start date
That is up to you, but it isn't a position you can take, in my mind, if you intend to get round Badminton.
Prove me wrong at your leisure.
alligator40
Well-Known Member
Elf On A Shelf
...
There is also another VERY good reason for carrying a stick - leading or riding - if the horse gets bored they can chew it rather than chew the handler/rider!
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
a whole new thread! Scratch down your wellies if it gets hot and itchy as well.
amandap
Well-Known Member
That is a great use for a whip. Willow or other tasty or medicinal woods could be used.
Groom42
Well-Known Member
But, all you need to do is ask nicely - any horse will respond to that if it truly respects you - after all, they sooooo want to please!
There is a world of difference between "whipping" and a sharp reminder to buck up and concentrate.
You can "reason" as much with a horse, as you can with a toddler - sometimes you need enforce a message in such a way that means "no discussion", either for safety or behaviour reasons. And if that enforcement avoids accident, it is perfectly justified.
And, as for "violent outburst"...........seriously?.
There is a world of difference between "whipping" and a sharp reminder to buck up and concentrate.
You can "reason" as much with a horse, as you can with a toddler - sometimes you need enforce a message in such a way that means "no discussion", either for safety or behaviour reasons. And if that enforcement avoids accident, it is perfectly justified.
And, as for "violent outburst"...........seriously?.
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
My own personal view on the use of the whip is that for use to encourage a horse to jump as Toddy did is fine, but if a horse needs the stick at every fence, then perhaps it needs another job. I thought the use of the whip on Drivetime at the water was rather un-necessary and I think it was done out of temper, but that's just my opinion. I think hitting a genuinely tired horse (I'm thinking of the German on the black horse as he was approaching the quarry) is unfair and pointless.
I also did not think much to Lucinda Fredricks' showing off when she had finished the course, she should have jumped off and loosened her girth like everyone else did.
I also did not think much to Lucinda Fredricks' showing off when she had finished the course, she should have jumped off and loosened her girth like everyone else did.
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
oh yes, Lucinda - clearly she's the worlds worst at keeping a tricksy little horse fit and well and up to the mark, and needs all the advice we can give her. NOOOOOOOOOT.
When you've all emailed Mark Todd to tell him where he went wrong, you could sort Team Fredericks out, I'm sure they'll be most grateful.
When you've all emailed Mark Todd to tell him where he went wrong, you could sort Team Fredericks out, I'm sure they'll be most grateful.
amandap
Well-Known Member
Thankyou.
It has nothing to do with imposing your will on a horse that may have to be done at times of emergency etc. but do we need to hit? Somehow hitting for me is an act of disrespect and if I expect my horses to listen to and 'respect' me the least I can do is respect their bodies.
It's my fundamental rule.
I wonder if they could get round Badminton without a whip? Perhaps there should be the odd whip free comp?
BSJAlove
Well-Known Member
so if you were riding on the road and you had an ar*ehole driver coming past with no room and your horse was freaking out at something. you were kicking with all your might to get the horse to move forward or youd both end up under a car, id use my whip!
if my horse was a stride out of a jump and was too late to stop but felt like he was going to stop/run out, id use my whip!
if my horse was being a general prat for no reason, id use my whip!
horses are dangerous. some of them, you give them an inch and they take a mile. i dont know about anyone else but if my horse was about to back on to a cars bonnet, id rather use my whip to send him forwards then risk My life. i have a family.
if my horse was a stride out of a jump and was too late to stop but felt like he was going to stop/run out, id use my whip!
if my horse was being a general prat for no reason, id use my whip!
horses are dangerous. some of them, you give them an inch and they take a mile. i dont know about anyone else but if my horse was about to back on to a cars bonnet, id rather use my whip to send him forwards then risk My life. i have a family.
aimsymc
Well-Known Member
skewbald_again lmao! yeah prada really loooked like she was desperate to stop!
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
When you and AmandaP are good enough riders to compete for your country then I believe you then have the right to criticise someone of Toddy's calibre. Until then I suggest you do a bit more research about the sports you are criticising because it is SAFER for the rider and horse to give them a shake up and wake up with a whip.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Without question, you've dropped in the names of the great and the good. One question for you. Just how many of them have ridden at International level?
It isn't their field, and were you to ask them, I suspect that they'd tell you that the top level of competition, isn't really where they are. They would probably tell you that they offer assistance to the best, but at a base level.
When you've managed to replicate the achievements of the very best, then you can tell your peers that they are wrong. Until then, and were I you, I'd think before I post. Your choice.
Alec.
sportsmansB
Well-Known Member
Ref Lucinda- seeing as her horse was clearly so full of running at the end, slowing down gently allowing the adrenalin to decrease in the horse, and the heartbeat to slow gradually, decrease the lactic acid, etc etc was testament to how fit and well prepared her mare was. All these horses are walked (smartly) for several minutes as soon as the rider dismounts anyway (I know, I had the shin splints to prove it after tattersalls 3 day one year!) , if they were wrapped in cotton wool and put in a stable they would seize up something shocking!
Do you think if all these riders had NEVER used a whip, they would have produced horses to this level who are straight and not spooky about ditches/water/coffins/ whatever? What about someone who feels their horse is hanging on one rein and gives a slap on the shoulder approaching a combination so that they don't get an awkward jump or a fall? Should that not be allowed either? Should they jsut ask them politely with a half halt on the rubber snaffle and a little bit of leg behind the girth?! At 4* speed and adrenalin for horse and rider, that just wouldn't cut it.
Re: Drivetime- that horse has sooo much potential but just can't seem to get his head around Badminton lake- should he have been allowed to stop 3 times and never go in, when he clearly has the ability to jump the fences and couldn't have got to 4* being frightened of water?
Some times people need a push to do something they think they don't want to, from a friend/trainer/family member, and then are surprised to find how easy it is and can go on doing whatever it is to a better and better skill level.
If 4yo eventers were allowed to pick and choose what fences they liked the look of and what ones they didn't, we wouldn't have a sport. Coaxing them over with a carrot is not really practical every time. If dressage horses were allowed to decide that they would rather not collect and show some impulsion, they would never reach beyond novice, and we wouldn't have a sport.
I don't for one moment advocate any kind of horse cruelty, but I have seen much much worse riding and handling from amateurs who have no/limited knowledge than from Pros who by their very nature want to win!
And remember- it doesn't matter whether they finish the xc or not, if they can't pass the trot up, it is meaningless (and worse than having time faults for going too slow) and pro eventers know this better than anyone.
Anyway thats my bit.
Can't believe Toddy got the worst of this, all he did was give his horse the equivalent of that tired pinch to get his focus back. I dare say had he had another scramble at the last log of the combination (which he never looked like having, his actions had the desired effect, he made the stride he expected to and the horse got a second wind) he would have retired. He is far sighted enough to know after all these years that there is always another day.
Do you think if all these riders had NEVER used a whip, they would have produced horses to this level who are straight and not spooky about ditches/water/coffins/ whatever? What about someone who feels their horse is hanging on one rein and gives a slap on the shoulder approaching a combination so that they don't get an awkward jump or a fall? Should that not be allowed either? Should they jsut ask them politely with a half halt on the rubber snaffle and a little bit of leg behind the girth?! At 4* speed and adrenalin for horse and rider, that just wouldn't cut it.
Re: Drivetime- that horse has sooo much potential but just can't seem to get his head around Badminton lake- should he have been allowed to stop 3 times and never go in, when he clearly has the ability to jump the fences and couldn't have got to 4* being frightened of water?
Some times people need a push to do something they think they don't want to, from a friend/trainer/family member, and then are surprised to find how easy it is and can go on doing whatever it is to a better and better skill level.
If 4yo eventers were allowed to pick and choose what fences they liked the look of and what ones they didn't, we wouldn't have a sport. Coaxing them over with a carrot is not really practical every time. If dressage horses were allowed to decide that they would rather not collect and show some impulsion, they would never reach beyond novice, and we wouldn't have a sport.
I don't for one moment advocate any kind of horse cruelty, but I have seen much much worse riding and handling from amateurs who have no/limited knowledge than from Pros who by their very nature want to win!
And remember- it doesn't matter whether they finish the xc or not, if they can't pass the trot up, it is meaningless (and worse than having time faults for going too slow) and pro eventers know this better than anyone.
Anyway thats my bit.
Can't believe Toddy got the worst of this, all he did was give his horse the equivalent of that tired pinch to get his focus back. I dare say had he had another scramble at the last log of the combination (which he never looked like having, his actions had the desired effect, he made the stride he expected to and the horse got a second wind) he would have retired. He is far sighted enough to know after all these years that there is always another day.
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
We're not talking Saturday morning at the riding school or even county level where you CAN see whip abuse on a regular basis. No; we're talking about one of the greatest riders of our era and frankly it's bordering on defamation and should be stopped
At least two villages are missing their idiots today.
At least two villages are missing their idiots today.
Rouletterose
Well-Known Member
I agree with you Fellewell, this thread is now way over the top and name calling some of eventings top riders by some posters that don't know what they're talking about.
I hope MT is not reading this. TFC where are you PULL this thread please.
I hope MT is not reading this. TFC where are you PULL this thread please.
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
I shouldn't think Toddy gives a tinkers cuss what some pillock on here thinks of his riding, tbh.
I came on here this morning spitting nails because it made me so cross to see such utter rubbish talked about one of the greatest of riders, and I am still spanking mad that someone is now calling Lucinda's judgement into question, as it's a complete pile of pooh, that mare was still firing on all four. But I wouldn't think it would bother either of them.
I don't think there's any confusion over who the halfwits are in this scenario.
dozzie
Well-Known Member
A master at work.
Rouletterose
Well-Known Member
Agree... MT is too big a man/rider to be bothered by such things, and LF is the same, I'm more concerned that Horse and Hound magazine is allowing such drivel to be posted!!!
In my opinion it is bordering on defamation of character.
aimsymc
Well-Known Member
hear hear!
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
we now await similar snaps of AmandaP and Over2You demonstrating w
here he's going wrong.
here he's going wrong.
mcnaughty
Well-Known Member
Thankyou.
It has nothing to do with imposing your will on a horse that may have to be done at times of emergency etc. but do we need to hit? Somehow hitting for me is an act of disrespect and if I expect my horses to listen to and 'respect' me the least I can do is respect their bodies.
It's my fundamental rule.
I wonder if they could get round Badminton without a whip? Perhaps there should be the odd whip free comp?
You talk of disrespect - YOU are being disrespectful of one of the greatest horsemen who has ever lived. Learn to show some respect yourself and stop making a complete fool of yourself!
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
Well said.
dozzie
Well-Known Member
There were only maybe 4 or five strides between the two logs. Not really time for a conversation.The horse made a mistake at the first log, Mark picked him up fast, gave him a wake up call and got him over the second. Had he not done that the horse may have had a fall. As far as I could see, the whip was used to give the message that another fence was coming.
" Hey mate, forget that mistake, it's ok.. we have something else to do now..so let's crack on"
" Hey mate, forget that mistake, it's ok.. we have something else to do now..so let's crack on"
wizoz
Well-Known Member
Will people just get real for a minute PLEASE. Carrying a whip does not mean it gives the rider the right to beat their horse, it is there for back-up, a 3rd leg and at times, discipline. There have been times where I have had to use the whip on my horse/s for one reason or another but I have never abused it, how else do you discipline, pat it on the neck?
I watched Emily Baldwin smack Drivetime, 3 good smacks, as I was taught, I don't see a problem with that i'm afraid.
For those of you who like to treat horses like fluffy bunnies, that's entirely up to you, as a competitor and someone who trains her horses, I will continue to use my whip as and when it is needed but rest assured, it will never be abused.
Carrying a whip does not mean it gives the rider the right to beat their horse, it is there for back-up, a 3rd leg and at times, discipline. There have been times where I have had to use the whip on my horse/s for one reason or another but I have never abused it, how else do you discipline, pat it on the neck? I watched Emily Baldwin smack Drivetime, 3 good smacks, as I was taught, I don't see a problem with that i'm afraid.
For those of you who like to treat horses like fluffy bunnies, that's entirely up to you, as a competitor and someone who trains her horses, I will continue to use my whip as and when it is needed but rest assured, it will never be abused.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
I didn't single anyone out!
I'm obviously just in a world of my own.
Too simple though for experienced, knowlegable riders obviously.
Again, please come and ride my horse so we can video it! Then I will eat my words I promise!
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
You can come ride my horse too then and we can video that as well. I will be impressed, genuinely, if you can get a tune out of him without carrying a stick. And no I dont ALWAYS carry a whip, it does depend on what you are riding, nor have I ever 'beaten' a horse, I have used a whip on them though!
alligator40
Well-Known Member
here-here......or should that be hear-hear?
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
I think you'll find the correct wording is:
"Wot they said^^^^^^^^"
I will bore you all senseless again when I say "If I could ride one stride like Mr Todd, I would die happy."
dozzie
Well-Known Member
I think you'll find the correct wording is:
"Wot they said^^^^^^^^"
I will bore you all senseless again when I say "If I could ride one stride like Mr Todd, I would die happy."
Nah...the correct wording is Beer! Beer!
MT got Land Vision through the complex safely BECAUSE he used the whip. By the time he had got his balance Mark had about 3 strides to the log up a steep incline and was on the gallop. IMO he did the best thing.
I love MT! So glad he is back!