amandap
Well-Known Member
LOL! Not much point as it seems I'm already making a fool of my self.
See below.
Erm, I had shut up.
inconsiderate whip use at badminton
- Thread starter equinim
- Start date
See below.
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
Nah...the correct wording is Beer! Beer!
MT got Land Vision through the complex safely BECAUSE he used the whip. By the time he had got his balance Mark had about 3 strides to the log up a steep incline and was on the gallop. IMO he did the best thing.
I love MT! So glad he is back!
No! If it was Beer! Beer! there'd be 6 strides to the log and possibly two logs....
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
I DID request a video of someone else on another thread, of their riding so we could have a look....I'm still waiting.
I think we will be waiting for an eternity, because hidden behind a keyboard, it's easy to slag someone off.
Would be nice to see some of these posters say all this to the eventers themselves...
'Hey, just wanted to say, Mr. Todd.....I was appalled by your riding, the way you beat that horse round, obviously you ain't got it schooled right, would you like me to give you a few pointers? by the way, you are crap....'...
At which point, Mr. Todd can do one of several things.
Punch you in the nose, which you deserve....
Shove the 1st place rosette where the sun don't shine, because it's what you deserve...
OR say this...
'who the hell are you?'..
'I'M from HHO! ...and I know it all! didn't you know? Everyone is an expert on there....would you like me to give you some riding lessons?...and teac you how to school your 4* eventer so it goes in a snaffle and doesn't need a whip?'...
At this point, I'd imagine the air might be quite blue, or you might be coughing up your teeth....
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
You aren't alone!
Alec.
Ets, and those who can't see the made point, should be banned from this forum, if for no other reason, than crass stupidity! a.
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amandap
Well-Known Member
I got tired of waiting for your reply so I checked the other thread and the person you asked was not someone called Amanda!
I'm not involved in that thread.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
I have asked you to come ride mine so we can video it! No need to feel left out
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
I got tired of waiting for your reply so I checked the other thread and the person you asked was not someone called Amanda!
I did reply, you will have to go back and read this thread to find it...its there.
Mrs B
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, Alec - would you like to choose a canter left stride or canter right? Or a cheeky little transition? Or maybe a canter to halt at x? Or the last stride before one of those cheek-clenchingly enormous fences? Or the crucial one to place Land Vision just right for the final fence on the sj course...
I could go on (and make no apology if I do)
I could go on (and make no apology if I do)
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
alligator40
Well-Known Member
sorry, SA..THIS is the post of the day!!..in fact, i would go as far as saying it's up there as post of the year.
amandap
Well-Known Member
Sorry missed it. Must be that tacky paint! Arghh, nope, can't face reading my boring, foolish posts again!I did reply, you will have to go back and read this thread to find it...its there.
dozzie
Well-Known Member
muffinino
Well-Known Member
I'd happily be labelled a 'Parelli Denier'
Also, skewbald_again, 'tinker's cuss'! LMAO! MT has probably heard worse aimed at him than this, although perhaps not so much for a correctly applied whip, and I think he has enough supporters not to worry that the whole horse world can't see why he did it
As Mrs B said: I will bore you all senseless again when I say "If I could ride one stride like Mr Todd, I would die happy." This, 10 times over!Mark Todd, what a guy!
For the record, I never ride without a whip even though I trust my horse and in general he seems to trust me. However, that can go out the window if there's a life-threatening situation on the road, such as a plastic bag or a leaf turned the wrong way (I kid you not; tractors, trailers, buses etc, not a problem. A wrong way leaf? Deadly!). If it's a quick few smacks on the arse to avoid messing about on the road, then so be it. Horses are instinctive animals and no amount of training will completely hide this (well, maybe Parelli
) and I have always been taught to carry one, just in case. 99.99% my horse is fine, but I would not want to take the chance. They are also useful for threatening dogs that won't go away and clunking cars that are too close As a side note, have any of you who do not use whips ever driven? You would be a fool not to carry a whip then, so what do you do?
BEUnderTheInfluence
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of listening to inexperienced whimpering about silly things. The young horse was tired and Mark stated that the striding was all wrong at the previous but the petrol was in the tank to get home, if he hadn't have ridden the fence the way he had the horse could have fallen and picked up a much worse injury! Thats what people seem to not understand, good riding often doesn't look neat, sometimes riders have to ride aggressively but I hardly think you can critique Mark Todd after the beautiful way that horse finished and how well it came out the next day. If you want to complain about 'cruelty', maybe you should look into the real stuff...rescue cases, not high class, super fit, masterfully ridden and maintained competition horses. Get some perspective please.
1stclassalan
Well-Known Member
Well Pastie if you keep reaching for that gin bottle its no wonder why you keep falling asleep and continually miss the point.
Reading and understanding my posts does not require the invocation of nonexistent supernatural beings.
If that is your view you are welcome to it but for the sake of argument we first have to establish exactly what is horsemanship. Eventing developed from Hunter Trials which themselves were developed from cavalry tests designed to emulate the odd adage that a chargers should take you into Hell and be capable of bringing you back. So from the very outset there was an element of pushing the horse beyond normal bounds. I would agree wholeheartedly that it most definitely is thrilling entertainment just to watch let alone be good enough at it to take part but is it good horsemanship?
Ah well, you must have nodded off again there because it wasnt me doing the comparing I merely added my twopennyworth to someone elses agenda;however; I put it to you that both sports deliberately place obstacles with dangerous potential in the way of horses many of whom come a cropper at them.
I actually predate eventing but I did a bit of amateur racing and in those sepia days I could have probably shown Mark Todd a thing or two about competitiveness havent seen him having a whip fight with other jockeys half way round followed by a punch-up at the back of the weighing room! My young life had the dream of seeing owned, trained and ridden in the frame at the Grand National when it really was an awesome prospect but all of a sudden I got the message of whats it all about? I never did a competitive thing with an animal
muffinino
Well-Known Member
So, how does one safely drive a horse without a whip?
1stclassalan
Well-Known Member
clunking cars that are too close
As a side note, have any of you who do not use whips ever driven? You would be a fool not to carry a whip then, so what do you do?
Ah ha! Agree with you there - I've clunked a good few cars with the butt end of a four foot dressage stick and two drivers who thought they'd stop to remonstrate.
However; that's what the sticks are for and not in ANY circumstances to hit an animal. My mare was trained to regard the feel of the stick has an extension of my hand - I was acutely alert when out and never let a danger find me first.
Vizslak
Well-Known Member
Crazy crazy place this forum
And still nobody wants to come ride my horse *sigh* your loss, he's really rather lovely, not that I'm biased or anything! At the failure of that idea I am still waiting for some video of the anti whip brigade in action
And still nobody wants to come ride my horse *sigh* your loss, he's really rather lovely, not that I'm biased or anything! At the failure of that idea I am still waiting for some video of the anti whip brigade in action
burtie
Well-Known Member
I understood that 4* was 570 (metres per minute), which is in fact 34.2kph so quite a bit faster than endurance and with some rather large obstacles in the way too. So not really comparable.
stacey_lou
Well-Known Member
Ok so what about this
Mother asks child to go to fetch something for her. Child refuses and answers the mother back being being rude, mother tells child off by giving him a slap on the back of the legs and as a result of this child appologies and does as he was first told.
Does this then make her a bad mother?
Child (horse) didnt do as asked and was rude about it mother (rider) told them of with a slap to say dont be so rude and do as your told, Child (horse) did as told and answered the question asked.
Same thing, no?
Mother asks child to go to fetch something for her. Child refuses and answers the mother back being being rude, mother tells child off by giving him a slap on the back of the legs and as a result of this child appologies and does as he was first told.
Does this then make her a bad mother?
Child (horse) didnt do as asked and was rude about it mother (rider) told them of with a slap to say dont be so rude and do as your told, Child (horse) did as told and answered the question asked.
Same thing, no?
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
Just to really put a cat among the pigeons, no, not the same thing.
Children can be talked to and reasoned with, and understand consequences, and should not be smacked.
However, putting a horse on the naughty step doesn't cut it.
Sorry, which ever way round you go at it, horses are not people and vice versa.
Serenity087
Well-Known Member
I have to admit, I stopped reading at the point the beating of shetlands was advocated purely because they are shetlands (seconded, btw )
This whole thread, seems to me, to be three of four 12 year old girls fresh out of their Loan-a-pony week for easter who are slagging off some of the GREATEST riders in the WORLD.
I mean, we're not talking your local pot hunter, we're talking OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!
Who apparently don't know how to ride... huh?
Now, I obviously can't ride anyway, cos I use my stick a lot to back up my leg (I mean, there's 80kg of me versus well over 500kg of horse, if she'd listen to me whispering it would be okay!) but I would never DREAM of teaching grandma to suck eggs. Or an OLYMPIC 4* EVENT RIDER to ride a cross country course.
I think some of the posters here have delusions of granduer. I'm glad you enjoyed your loan-a-pony week, but seriously, you're a long way from teaching Mark Todd how to ride.
)This whole thread, seems to me, to be three of four 12 year old girls fresh out of their Loan-a-pony week for easter who are slagging off some of the GREATEST riders in the WORLD.
I mean, we're not talking your local pot hunter, we're talking OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALISTS!
Who apparently don't know how to ride... huh?
Now, I obviously can't ride anyway, cos I use my stick a lot to back up my leg (I mean, there's 80kg of me versus well over 500kg of horse, if she'd listen to me whispering it would be okay!) but I would never DREAM of teaching grandma to suck eggs. Or an OLYMPIC 4* EVENT RIDER to ride a cross country course.
I think some of the posters here have delusions of granduer. I'm glad you enjoyed your loan-a-pony week, but seriously, you're a long way from teaching Mark Todd how to ride.
muffinino
Well-Known Member
Really? So if your horse was being an idiot and for some reason planted in the road, and you thought a swift smack would move them forward out of the way of danger, what would you do?
How would you drive a horse safely without one?
tristar
Well-Known Member
i am not in awe of top riders, why should i be?, i know just as many ordinary folk who ride really well and who treat their horses, not as vehicules to fame and fortune but as friends and companions, and who really can say that they are not as good as mark todd if the inclination had been in them to try?
some of the best riders in history have not competed a lot, their motivation was different, it was a voyage of discovery to reach a place where horse and man met and understood each other in a way most competition riders will never know
eventing and horse racing are noted for hard attitudes towards horses, this has been expressed to me by both people involved in racing and by a british eventing accredited trainer.
the point for me really is when does it become too much to ask, how far is it humane to go, when does it become abuse?
its not only the horses that get killed outright on the day, its the horses that are injured, legs, backs, musculature problems, horses prematurely worn out, that are unseen by the public, the toll is higher than would appear at first glance
some of the best riders in history have not competed a lot, their motivation was different, it was a voyage of discovery to reach a place where horse and man met and understood each other in a way most competition riders will never know
eventing and horse racing are noted for hard attitudes towards horses, this has been expressed to me by both people involved in racing and by a british eventing accredited trainer.
the point for me really is when does it become too much to ask, how far is it humane to go, when does it become abuse?
its not only the horses that get killed outright on the day, its the horses that are injured, legs, backs, musculature problems, horses prematurely worn out, that are unseen by the public, the toll is higher than would appear at first glance
skewbald_again
Well-Known Member
Yeh, RIGHT.
That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
'I'm as good as Mark Todd but can't be arsed to prove it.'
LMFAO
tristar
Well-Known Member
its not about being 'as good' as mark todd or anybody else, not everyone needs to prove themselves.
people who ride come from all backgrounds,, many excellent riders never compete, its short sighted indeed to say a person such as todd is the best as he has proved it in competition, competitions are not the be all and end all of equestrianism
people who ride come from all backgrounds,, many excellent riders never compete, its short sighted indeed to say a person such as todd is the best as he has proved it in competition, competitions are not the be all and end all of equestrianism
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
I haven't read half of this so expect this will be like a red rag to abull to some but I actually thought Drivetime deserved what he got, it was a deliberate dirty stop; my only problem with it was she took too long to deliver it.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Just remember that those 'just competitions' are the top competitions in their fields, representing his country in not only eventing teams (which involves dressage too of course) but show jumping teams too, both at Olympic level, plus he is a trainer of note of flat racing. If that's not a complete horseman in all different fields then I'm not sure what is but I do know, you will be very hard pressed to find better whether they compete or not.
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Ninfapaola
Well-Known Member
A whip is a tool and only as good or as bad as the person using it. It is a correctional aid and a back up for a natural aid if the response ignored.
I always ride with a whip. It is sometimes used as a sharp reminder to ask my sometimes lazy ID to pick up his feet then we won't both be rolling about on the floor. Also when I rode on the roads I would carry my dressage whip usually at a 90 degree angle so that I could 'clunk' as many cars as possible that came too near. And should my horse ever swing his hindquarters into the road to back up my leg and to get us back on track in an instant.
I wouldn't even class these as a smack let alone a beating.
Horses are too big and strong and must respect us as much as we respect them for their own safety and well being.
I always ride with a whip. It is sometimes used as a sharp reminder to ask my sometimes lazy ID to pick up his feet then we won't both be rolling about on the floor. Also when I rode on the roads I would carry my dressage whip usually at a 90 degree angle so that I could 'clunk' as many cars as possible that came too near. And should my horse ever swing his hindquarters into the road to back up my leg and to get us back on track in an instant.
I wouldn't even class these as a smack let alone a beating.
Horses are too big and strong and must respect us as much as we respect them for their own safety and well being.
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
M, I agree whole heartedly and did say so I promise.
There was absolutely no need for the horse to stop there. He was just being a stroppy so and so and if he were mine he'd have had those smacks too. Maybe a little quicker but probably not as I (not being a very good rider) would have had to peel myself off the horses neck and get my balance back.