Issues with confidence

[Waxwing]

Hi thank you for the replies; the pony club isn't one she's been to before and is held in a large country park several miles away. Not quite sure how we will get there as I think our 3.5 tonne is to small. I am thinking of asking my one of my friends if their older very horsey young adult might be interested in being a paid mentor over the summer. This would provide support for both daughter and horse.; my daughter is almost sixteen so likes to be more independent and as long as the horse is behaving is perfectly capable of tacking up etc.

 

[eahotson]

Hi thank you for the replies; the pony club isn't one she's been to before and is held in a large country park several miles away. Not quite sure how we will get there as I think our 3.5 tonne is to small. I am thinking of asking my one of my friends if their older very horsey young adult might be interested in being a paid mentor over the summer. This would provide support for both daughter and horse.; my daughter is almost sixteen so likes to be more independent and as long as the horse is behaving is perfectly capable of tacking up etc.

That sounds a really good idea.

 

[mustardsmum]

That's amazing how well you and your daughter are doing with your new horse. Keep building on the positive experiences you are having with her. I would def let your daughter join and attend PC, they are excellent at keeping an eye on kids and try not to worry, if they think there are any issues, they will tell you. My daughter did junior camp from 8 and senior camp from 14 and loved it. It was great for her to look after her horse alone, without me hovering behind all the time and gave her heaps of confidence and built the relationship she needed to enjoy her pony. Your daughter will be in with a group of kids of similiar ability to her and the instructors really do know what they are doing. They will say if there are any issues or if they are worried, but they will definitely build your daughters confidence. I would take a deep breath and try not to let your anxieties overthink it. It will be so good for her mental health to be independent and have the responsibility of caring for her horse. I would go along to a couple of rallies, to see what the PC is like - make sure you like the instructors and that the kids are friendly. Usually they do ask if you can attend a couple of rallies before camp so they have some idea about your horse and daughter. I know its hard when you have anxieties (been there!) but sometimes you just have to let them go it and its amazing when they come home brimming with confidence and new found skills. While she is gone, why not have some lessons yourself - use it as a time to build your own confidence, it will take your mind off your daughter and will help you feel more confident when your horse come back.

 

[Waxwing]

Well my daughter is continuing to enjoy the horse; mainly riding her ln lessons but has done a mixture of jumping, flatwork, drill riding and waking on the tracks around the yard so the horse is getting a variety of work. The farrier came out for the second time since we got and she behaved a lot better; he cold shod her and she was bribed with a few treats. The person holding said it was relatively uneventful so it appears shoeing will be manageable; the farrier is happy to cold shoe for now and can work on hot shoeing in the future. She has attempted to put a small buck on one further occasion but my daughter has ridden her through it and been unconcerned by it. Each time has been a one off and once the horse has been told to get on she does regardless of what she is being asked to; ie if there are further canters or a jump she doesn't hot up. I think its doing my daughter's confidence and riding good in the sense that she is riding positively and sorting the behaviour out. She wasn't able to do a lot with either of our previous horses but is enjoying the current one.

She has issues with school and her mental health; we had a chat last night about what she felt was going well in her life and having the horse was the first thing she identified.

As long as my daughter is happy she stays!

I am going to carry on doing bits with her but the focus for the next couple of years is my daughter. I had my fun as a teenager and she has missed out for the last couple of years due to our last horse not being suitable.

I think in my later years I may want a very quiet cob type I can pootle about on. I have some monies from one of my parents that I am setting aside as a five years in future pot (if required)

 

[eahotson]

I hope all goes well for you all and your daughter continues to enjoy her.

 

[Red-1]

Sounds like a great start. If you'd done the 6 week test time, the horse would have won you over. I'm betting that, once your daughter has ironed out the wrinkles with the folly of youth, you'll feel great to ride again too.

If not, I too got a lil' ol' cob to get me back into it after a break. It worked!

 

[Waxwing]

Well it has all gone horribly wrong'; from my perspective at least; my daughter rode her this evening and once they started cantering properly bucked rather than a couple of small bucks and she came off again. One of the staff at the yard got on her; she continued to misbehave but then settled and was working well. My daughter is ok but will have some bruises tomorrow. I don't mind a bit of exuberance but I have no desire to get back on after this evening's performance. My daughter wants to keep her and carry on but I now have genuine worries about her safety; the horse is relatively big for her and while it might be manageable at home in the school I would not feel comfortable with her taking her to pony club. My daughter did say she was more unsettled when she was tacking her cup, calling out etc so I wonder if she is season again and they have moved to different grazing so this may be having an impact. The yard staff feels she needs more regular work; I think she needs a different owner. My daughter is now cross with me, my husband is cross with me as he thinks I a making a snap decision when upset. However feeling as I do now is definitely not the right frame of mind to get on any horse. My inclination is to get back, teeth and tack checked etc to make sure there is nothing underlying contributing to her behaviour and find a reputable schooling and sales livery who can do some work with her and then find her the right home. I am not worried about taking a financial hit; I don't want to keep a horse I don't want to ride and I am not happy with my daughter riding.

 

[Lois Lame]

I wouldn't call that 'horribly wrong'. I was wondering what I was going to read.

I think the yard staff are correct in that the mare needs more work. She's feeling very good with that bit of grass and needs more opportunity to use it up. (Work, not play.)

I also think that mental health and it's management can override a few bucks. That 's what life is - a few bucks. I think you are acting in haste.

 

[eahotson]

Well it has all gone horribly wrong'; from my perspective at least; my daughter rode her this evening and once they started cantering properly bucked rather than a couple of small bucks and she came off again. One of the staff at the yard got on her; she continued to misbehave but then settled and was working well. My daughter is ok but will have some bruises tomorrow. I don't mind a bit of exuberance but I have no desire to get back on after this evening's performance. My daughter wants to keep her and carry on but I now have genuine worries about her safety; the horse is relatively big for her and while it might be manageable at home in the school I would not feel comfortable with her taking her to pony club. My daughter did say she was more unsettled when she was tacking her cup, calling out etc so I wonder if she is season again and they have moved to different grazing so this may be having an impact. The yard staff feels she needs more regular work; I think she needs a different owner. My daughter is now cross with me, my husband is cross with me as he thinks I a making a snap decision when upset. However feeling as I do now is definitely not the right frame of mind to get on any horse. My inclination is to get back, teeth and tack checked etc to make sure there is nothing underlying contributing to her behaviour and find a reputable schooling and sales livery who can do some work with her and then find her the right home. I am not worried about taking a financial hit; I don't want to keep a horse I don't want to ride and I am not happy with my daughter riding.

I understand you want to keep your daughter safe but no real harm was done.She is only young and a few bangs and bruises are survivable.Monitor the situation but don't act in haste as you may seriously upset your daughter.

 

[Red-1]

Whatever you decide, it will be correct. You bought the horse to enjoy, both you and your daughter. You are not enjoying her. Your daughter is young and the young are not always as good at managing risk, feeling invincible.

Where would you be, in the 6 week time frame? That was my first suggestion, have 6 weeks without the pressure of a decision, then see where you are. I would stick with that, unless you think your daughter is at an unacceptable risk, in which case the decision is a forgone one.

I do think more work can help some horses, but then there also are horses who don't do those behaviours even with no work. Rigs can be ridden when not worked for months, without fuss or fanfare, but then he wouldn't be athletically what you are looking for. BH is another who doesn't need every day riding. He is generally good but does have the odd teenager moment but they come with notice and are always because of something, and quickly resolved. I feel safe on him, but if I were bucked off a time or two, I would not. I am too old to faff with that and would likely sell if that happened. To me, his moments are all part of growing up, seeing new things and learning to manage, and will be over soon! They are also momentary and manageable.

I feel for you. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. I can only say to trust your instincts. They may be right or they may be wrong, but if you go against them and it all goes wrong, you will likely not be kind to yourself. If you go with your instincts, you will always have comfort that you did what you thought was correct at the time, with the evidence you have.

 

[cauda equina]

One horse I had - the first time he bucked me off I didn't get on him again, he went straight to sales livery.
It wasn't just that bucking off; that was the final straw of escalating problems and me losing my nerve on him
Falling off that one time just confirmed what I really knew but had been reluctant to acknowledge

Another horse - I had him for over 20 years and got bucked off several times but basically we got on very well and I enjoyed him.
When I fell off him it was no big deal as things were good otherwise

If your daughter and the mare are basically well suited I wouldn't be too worried by her coming off - it doesn't sound as if she is.

Falling off is always a possibility every time we get on a horse and as we get older our acceptance of risk decreases. As a teen I did things that I wouldn't do now.
Of course you want to keep your daughter safe, but I wonder how much you are projecting your fears for yourself onto her.
Even though you bought the mare for both of you to share would you be willing for your daughter to crack on without you, if she is happy riding her but you are not?

 

[Peglo]

Some mares can get quite sore along their backs and ovaries when in season so if she is in season that might explain her bucking. Much the same as being forced to do a heavy weights session when your suffering with bad period pains. If you had the choice you wouldn’t go to the gym. If she was unsettled tacking up that might’ve been her saying she wasn’t feeling up to it today. It’s worth finding out if she is so you can work around it.

As Cauda says some horses give you confidence even if they throw in some bucks etc. it seems this horse gives your daughter confidence even though she’s come off but It’s such a tricky one when you don’t have that trust in her. Definitely speak to your daughter and trainers and get their advice and explain your concerns.

 

[Waxwing]

Hi; thank you for your replies; my daughter didn't appear overly worried yesterday but from the ground I was. The bucks were larger and more persistent than anything I had seen her do before; I think it probably was a combination of being in season and her feeling rather too good after spending a couple of days on some very good grass. The yard owner is being very supportive and ensured she was ridden today and has moved her onto less good grazing. She has suggested I try riding her at the weekend after someone else has ridden her; however I have no inclination or interest in riding her and my instincts are telling me that won't be staying in the longer term. All the confidence I had in her and myself is gone and I don't plan to get back on her. If I felt she was right for my daughter not for me she could stay but size wise she is a lot for my daughter to handle if she is misbehaving as she was last night. Yesterday was manageable as there was an instructor on hand and someone else available to ride the horse, but this obviously isn't always possible.

I think she will make someone else a good horse but it isn't me and it probably isn't my daughter. I have agreed with my husband that I won't make any decisions until the end of the school year but the horse needs someone with the confidence to get out and about and do stuff with her and give her a variety in her work.

 

[mustardsmum]

Your post is me six years ago. Same mother daughter share, bucky mare, daughter loved bucky mare and learnt to sit the bucks. Had a couple of nasty falls but got up dusted herself off and got back on, while I felt sick with worry. Our mother daughter share was def not for me. I was not keen to ride her - she was sharp and speedy and had a very big buck. My instincts told me to sell, but as my daughter’s confidence in her own ability grew, so did her love of this quirky mare. The first year I honestly just wanted her gone - she was a handful and when in season, she was not pleasant. We put her on Oestress which really helped and use still today. My daughter learnt what triggered the bucking, and although she will never not buck, we know the signs when we ride so ride accordingly. Six years on she is semi retired and daughter (now at Uni) comes home and spends every minute she can with her. Their bond is quite amazing - they’ve gone through PC, jumped, done endurance, rode a 30mile ride alone to raise money for charity and spent hours together. When my daughter left for Uni, I bought a horse for me - not sassy or opinionated and definitely no bucking! Daughters sassy mare is now a field ornament who we all love dearly. Some of us mothers need a horse that’s very different to what their children want. They need a challenge, we need calm.

Your instructor sounds sensible and realised what may have happened - mare sounds reactive to grass so work her and keep her on less rocket fuel. See out your six weeks, then decide. I would also get saddle etc checked too - all the usual stuff. Don’t get back on, give yourself a break and step back. It maybe she isn’t the one but keep talking to your instructor and let your daughter ride her if she’s happy to. Just make sure she’s got a decent body protector and a good fitting hat (which I am sure you have). Would also invest in some proper safety stirrups like the Avacello ones. Put a neck strap on. Also, if you’re not happy riding her, maybe spend time doing groundwork with her and get to know her. See if you can build a bond with her. At the end of the day, only you can decide if she’s “the one” . It maybe she will always occasionally have a moment you just need to decide if you can cope when she does. I do empathise - sometimes it’s very hard to know what the right thing to do is. Good luck which ever way you decide to go.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I agree with @Lois Lame , I too wouldn’t be overly worried, BB bucked a few times last week with me when there was horseflies nibbling his butt.
Try and not let it dent your confidence though

 

[J&S]

This thread makes me realise just how lucky we must have been with mother/daughter shares! I had ponies I could share equally with my daughter (now 50!) and then later another perfect one with my step daughter (now 35). They competed successfully PC and RC and hacked all over the forest, no problem. The main difference was, I think between OP and her daughter, and myself and mine, that as soon as any problems arose with pony/daughter combination I was able to take charge and sort it out straight away. OP is having to rely on other, more experienced people to step in if needed, and, as she has mentioned, this might not always be available at the right time/place. I feel the OP has established that this will never be the right horse for her but perhaps, if she could get an appropriate sharer/rider to keep the horse going well, then in time, it might still be the right horse for her daughter.

 

[Upthecreek]

Waxwing I think you need to wait and see if the changes in her management make a difference before you make any hasty decisions. Stop any hard feed (if you haven’t already), get her out on some poorer grazing and doing more work and see how she is then.

You have said you want a quiet cob to pootle on, but it doesn’t sound like that will be suitable for your daughter. You might have to accept it will be difficult to find the perfect horse for both of you.

 

[Waxwing]

Hi thank you all for your responses; I don't have an issue with just my daughter riding her for a while or even a few years. The issue she is bigger than ideal for my daughter, not a concern if she is behaving but it is if she is bucking as it is hard for to get her legs on and push her forward. The saddle fitter is due back in a couple of weeks; we had the saddle fitted the day after she arrived and I booked them to come back after three months. I will see if I can bring this forward. She was seen by the vet last week who didn't raise any concerns. Her teeth are also due so I will chase this up.

My daughter enjoys riding and is happy to spend time with the horse but getting her to put the commitment in to up her riding to enable to manage the horses behaviour; from a technical point of view, is more difficult. Her instructor has been clear with that she needs to develop her core strength and overall fitness but she has been quite resistant to this. We have both joined a gym recently and I suggested booking her a session with a trainer who could help her focus on this but she wasn't willing. What I am trying to say, not very coherently is that I am not sure she will put the work in to make me feel sure she is safe riding the horse without an instructor present. In all honesty she wants to ride something she can jump on two or three times a week, have some time in the school or field with a friend from the yard and take out to pony cub or similar. She has never particularly enjoyed hacking , but if I had been doing this a few times a week this wouldn't be an issue.

When the horse initially arrived this seemed eminently doable; we were having lessons on her , had taken her out for a few short hacks and my daughter had ridden her on her own in the school a few times on her own.

I think being in season and being particularly reactive to the grass are the most likely causes of her recent freshness and I totally get that having a horse means dealing with the ups and downs but I have to feel confident that this horse is right for at least one of us.

 

[Waxwing]

I would like to say thank you to everyone who has been kind enough to respond; it's helpful to have different views and perspectives whilst trying to work out what to do. Your time and thoughts have been greatly appreciated.

 

[Caol Ila]

I'd stick with the plan to check teeth and saddle and adjust the management. Selling the horse because she's bucked a couple times, but you've had her for less than a year and are still in that settling in phase, seems hasty, not to mention hard on your daughter if she is enjoying the horse. I'm a small adult -- about 8.5st -- and I had a 15.1hh quarter horse from age 13 to age 18 (only sold because I upgraded to an even sportier, more athletic model). I got bucked off a whole bunch of times during the first couple years. I don't think my mom knew about most of those incidents because she'd just drop me off at the barn and leave me to it, but she was definitely aware of a few. Oddly for my mom, she never flapped about it. I know it's a different era now, but teenagers are still teenagers.

If you sold your mare, would you give up on the horse thing altogether, or try to find a quieter one? I think it would be difficult for any teenager to have a horse for a short time, then lose it (unless they were scared of it and didn't want to ride). Really difficult. Whether that's losing out on horse ownership completely, or having to restart at square one with a new horse. I can't speak for every kid, but I would have found that very traumatic. In your earlier posts, the mare seemed perfect and you seemed happy with her. If she's getting bucky, you may need to go down the rabbit hole. That was one of my early experiences of horse ownership too: me being 14, the horse showing more challenging behaviour than the norm, then having to fix stuff. Saddle. Feet. I think we injected her hocks. We just got on with it, to be quite frank, because that's horses.

Some mares can also get very weird when they're in season. That wasn't an issue for horse #1 (who had plenty of other problems), but horse #2 got a personality transplant during particularly strong seasons and wasn't much fun. I saw a good meme-type thing on Facebook the other day explaining how ovulation can be quite uncomfortable for some mares, hence the spicy behaviour when they come into season. As the owner of three different mares over the years, I have also found that the 'must have babies' hormones can fry their brains; they have one thing on their mind, and it isn't you. Not every mare, and not every single time she's in heat, but some mares, some of the time.

Ultimately, every horse is a crapshoot. You won't know whether a different horse who seems as bombproof as a rocking horse will stay that way with new owners and different management. You won't know if this horse won't improve if you tweak some things with her management. Educated horses don't buck riders off for no reason, so it may be worth trying to figure it out.

 

[Waxwing]

Thank you again for everyone who has responded it has been greatly appreciated! The horse has been moved off the better grazing and won't be returning to it! Up until yesterday I was fairly adamant I didn't want to get on. My lovely instructor, who runs the yard and is a very close friend suggested someone else ride her first; while I rode one of the school horses who I trust implicitly and we then swap. The horse had been ridden that morning by one of the instructors who had her jumping a meter (which was also nice to hear as she hadn't jumped much before we got her) so she had expended some energy. She behaved perfectly with the other person who rode so I got on for a walk trot and canter. It may not sound like much but given where I was emotionally this week was a good achievement from my perspective! The other person who rode said what a lovely horse and asked when they could ride her again. My daughter was really unsure she wanted to ride her today but joined in a group lesson and did the full hour and walk, trotted and cantered and the horse behaved perfectly. She was a little apprehensive about going out for walk on the tracks afterwards but the instructor walked with her. I spent a lot of time today at the yard today and gave her a good groom. We have both agreed not to make any immediate decisions and give it a couple of months and see if we can do what we want with her. (Us not the horse; she can already do most things with the right rider!) I am still not totally sure where we will be in a few months time but I think we are both now in the headspace to make a more considered decision which is probably the better place to be.

 

[cauda equina]

Well done!
It sounds as if you all had a good day, and your yard sounds very supportive
I'm looking forward to the next positive update!

 

[Red-1]

I guess the only bit of that I didn't like, was to hear that your daughter wasn't sure she wanted to ride her today. Other than that, a very positive update.

 

[Lois Lame]

I guess the only bit of that I didn't like, was to hear that your daughter wasn't sure she wanted to ride her today. Other than that, a very positive update.

Yes, that puzzled me a bit too.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It basically sounds like teething problems which can happen with a new horse you have made some changes with grazing and more work so hopefully she will settle down, they can take months to really settle in a new place with new people it's alot for any horse really.

 

[Waxwing]

I just wanted to clarify I have made it very clear to my daughter it is entirely up to her if she rides or not. She wasn't sure yesterday morning and then decided she wanted to try. We agreed before the lesson she would just do what she wanted and she decided to join in the whole lesson and she was pleased with herself. It is entirely up to her how much she chooses to ride her in the future, or not at all if she doesn't want to. All I really want to do is ensure that my daughter feels included in whatever decisions we make now and in future and together we make a considered decision about whether the horse is right for us in the longer term.

 

[eahotson]

I just wanted to clarify I have made it very clear to my daughter it is entirely up to her if she rides or not. She wasn't sure yesterday morning and then decided she wanted to try. We agreed before the lesson she would just do what she wanted and she decided to join in the whole lesson and she was pleased with herself. It is entirely up to her how much she chooses to ride her in the future, or not at all if she doesn't want to. All I really want to do is ensure that my daughter feels included in whatever decisions we make now and in future and together we make a considered decision about whether the horse is right for us in the longer term.

I think including her in discussions is an excellent idea.

 

[Waxwing]

We had the saddle fitter out today; she hasn't changed at all around her withers but had changed a lot around her back as she has developed muscle on her top line. It was a quite a significant change in the twelve weeks we have had her and consequently her saddle wasn't fitting properly; the saddle fitter felt this could have potentially contributed to her bucking if she was feeling uncomfortable in canter. The horse spent half an hour dozing in the sun while the saddle fitter was there, the yard was very quiet this morning and the school was free so I decided to ride, She was very calm and relaxed and to be fair had been the previous three times she was ridden. It felt like I had got the horse back we tried and I enjoyed my twenty minutes on her. She will be remaining on the very bare field she is currently on and is during the day for four to five days a week and apart from some hay when she is in is not having any additional feed. Its still day by day but today was a better day . (I appreciate everyone may have lost the will to live reading my musings but i is helpful to have a space I can get down how I am feeling.)

 

[Annagain]

We had the saddle fitter out today; she hasn't changed at all around her withers but had changed a lot around her back as she has developed muscle on her top line. It was a quite a significant change in the twelve weeks we have had her and consequently her saddle wasn't fitting properly; the saddle fitter felt this could have potentially contributed to her bucking if she was feeling uncomfortable in canter. The horse spent half an hour dozing in the sun while the saddle fitter was there, the yard was very quiet this morning and the school was free so I decided to ride, She was very calm and relaxed and to be fair had been the previous three times she was ridden. It felt like I had got the horse back we tried and I enjoyed my twenty minutes on her. She will be remaining on the very bare field she is currently on and is during the day for four to five days a week and apart from some hay when she is in is not having any additional feed. Its still day by day but today was a better day . (I appreciate everyone may have lost the will to live reading my musings but i is helpful to have a space I can get down how I am feeling.)

This is really good to read Waxwing. Let's hope you got to the bottom of the behaviour and it won't be back. I'd maybe get a bodyworker to take a look just to make sure there's no residual damage. At least you know when something's not right! I get the feeling Wiggy would never tell me anything.

As I've said before, getting used to a new horse is hard. If you'd had her a year before the bucking, you would have known this is out of character, after 12 weeks you have no idea if this was normal for her or not so it's easy to assume the worst.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Great news totally makes sense with the saddle causing the bucking.