Laminitis with no improvement

[Roxylola]

So, insurance wise, what is your worry? Is it that they won't pay for any of the treatment up to now if you then decline to treat further and euthanize? Or is it that they won't pay for euthanasia? The reason I ask is that insurance companies seem to have much more stringent factors for PTS on welfare grounds than I would, my decision for my horse (non laminitic) was made on the basis of what I knew his quality of life to be as his owner for almost 10 years.
Basically for insurance to pay it has to be recommended by your vet and the guidelines are so stringent for a recommendation I would never personally wait that long so I would never have had the euthanasia covered.
So you can continue on the route you are on I make no judgement but if you are hoping the insurance will agree to pay for euthanasia you will have to leave your horse to struggle on longer than I personally felt reasonable.

 

[meleeka]

The rotation won’t be cured as such. What they will do is trim the toes so that they align more with the bone so that forces aren’t pulling them apart. The break over point will be moved back, again to reduce forces pulling the wall away from the bone.

My old pony came back from that sort of rotation with 4 weekly trims and regular xrays. Have they not mentioned imprints? I believe they are very effective, although they hadn’t been invented when I had the problem. I believe resection are done when there’s a build of up of gas. You’ve also got to get to the root cause of why she’s got it, or she’ll be at such risk of just getting worse despite treatment.
I’m pleased she’s looking brighter today. Hopefully the meds you got into are helping.

 

[holeymoley]

Okay so the first x Ray looks fine. Second x Ray is the big licks. Quite severe rotation, I’d say roughly 15• but your vet will be able to tell you exactly. The bone has also dropped so she has sunk in that hoof. I hope you find the cause to prevent anything further. On looking again actually, the first x Ray, she may have almost the start of a negative palmar angle? Is this the one she has lameness on? Prior to laminitis?

 

[PSD]

So, insurance wise, what is your worry? Is it that they won't pay for any of the treatment up to now if you then decline to treat further and euthanize? Or is it that they won't pay for euthanasia? The reason I ask is that insurance companies seem to have much more stringent factors for PTS on welfare grounds than I would, my decision for my horse (non laminitic) was made on the basis of what I knew his quality of life to be as his owner for almost 10 years.
Basically for insurance to pay it has to be recommended by your vet and the guidelines are so stringent for a recommendation I would never personally wait that long so I would never have had the euthanasia covered.
So you can continue on the route you are on I make no judgement but if you are hoping the insurance will agree to pay for euthanasia you will have to leave your horse to struggle on longer than I personally felt reasonable.

My worry is that if I go against the surgery, the insurance won’t pay for the treatment & euthanasia because the vets are advising the surgery will potentially cure her. But now I have to decide what is best for her, money is just that and nothing of importance especially when it comes to her.

 

[PSD]

The rotation won’t be cured as such. What they will do is trim the toes so that they align more with the bone so that forces aren’t pulling them apart. The break over point will be moved back, again to reduce forces pulling the wall away from the bone.

My old pony came back from that sort of rotation with 4 weekly trims and regular xrays. Have they not mentioned imprints? I believe they are very effective, although they hadn’t been invented when I had the problem. I believe resection are done when there’s a build of up of gas. You’ve also got to get to the root cause of why she’s got it, or she’ll be at such risk of just getting worse despite treatment.
I’m pleased she’s looking brighter today. Hopefully the meds you got into are helping.

the vet has said that there is a gas pocket causing separation, that may be why he’s advised the resection?

Okay so the first x Ray looks fine. Second x Ray is the big licks. Quite severe rotation, I’d say roughly 15• but your vet will be able to tell you exactly. The bone has also dropped so she has sunk in that hoof. I hope you find the cause to prevent anything further. On looking again actually, the first x Ray, she may have almost the start of a negative palmar angle? Is this the one she has lameness on? Prior to laminitis?

I’m not sure what the palmar angle is sorry! She was initially more lame on the one with the bad rotation

 

[Roxylola]

My worry is that if I go against the surgery, the insurance won’t pay for the treatment & euthanasia because the vets are advising the surgery will potentially cure her. But now I have to decide what is best for her, money is just that and nothing of importance especially when it comes to her.

Ask them, at this point you've literally nothing to lose

 

[AmyMay]

There’s no reason why they won’t pay for treatment up until the moment you puts.

 

[meleeka]

the vet has said that there is a gas pocket causing separation, that may be why he’s advised the resection?



I’m not sure what the palmar angle is sorry! She was initially more lame on the one with the bad rotation

Sometimes it’s just a drill hole, not cutting the whole wall away. I think your vet sounds pretty good so I’d be guided by then if you think she’s still got the fight for life. The key will be finding and eliminating the cause.

 

[Equi]

Just wait and see what the bloods say before making a decision. If the cause of the laminitis can’t be found I’d be very very reluctant to put her through anything more.

 

[PSD]

Okay so update for you all.

thank you so much by the way for all your amazing support through this time I really appreciate it and it’s so nice to be able to talk about it.

so the vet got the results back for the insulin test and he said usually they come back at around 60 for a “normal horse”. Hers came back at 126 so she does have EMS and this is likely the cause of the laminitis. So thankfully we now have a reason for this and can work on that. He’s booked her for the resection tomorrow morning, he said we may as well give it a go because it will relieve a lot of the pressure and pain and thus making her recovery more likely if the pain is managed and even eliminated. He will do it at the yard so no need to make her travel, the farrier has also rang me to explain the procedure and the recovery period which was very reassuring. They’ve both said it’s not a miracle cure, it may not in fact do anything but it’s definitely worth a try as it’s the last option we have of saving her. She’s a hell of a lot more comfortable now and a lot brighter, she’s almost back to her usually pain in the butt self haha. So I’m not ready to give up on her, I know a lot have already said they wouldn’t put her through it but I just think I have one last option to save her, so I’m going to let them at least try as we’ve really nothing to lose right now.

 

[Equi]

The fact you have a solid reason for the lami is great news!! Do all the research you can on ems it’s not something I know anything about but I’m sure others do.

I’d be sending a very strongly worded letter to your ex vet. This could have all be done months ago literally.

hows she going with the soaked hay? It will really really make a difference to her. Her diet is going to be one of the main factors in her recovery.

 

[PSD]

The fact you have a solid reason for the lami is great news!! Do all the research you can on ems it’s not something I know anything about but I’m sure others do.

I’d be sending a very strongly worded letter to your ex vet. This could have all be done months ago literally.

hows she going with the soaked hay? It will really really make a difference to her. Her diet is going to be one of the main factors in her recovery.

it’s a huge relief now we have an answer to the cause. I’ve got plenty of bedtime reading to do! I think I’m going to seek legal advice if I’m honest, as you say it could have been avoided.

she’s actually eating it, I’m shocked! She’s on 7 kilos a day (I think that’s the right measurement) so I split it over the day. I’m having to give her the bute and metacam orally through a syringe because she doesn’t like her boring plain chaff!! But she seems so much happier already

 

[ester]

I should have given you this link before but I strongly recommend the ecir group run by Dr Kellon who has done a lot of research into metabolic horses
https://www.ecirhorse.org/
forum link (I find it a bit confusing I think it's very old and I've never needed to manage full navigation!)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main

 

[Equi]

It’s amazing how fast they can feel better when sugars are reduced. My boy is just on the cusp of ppid and in summer he can go from being a bit withdrawn to doing summer-salts in a few days after being taken of the grass. This year I’m going into it more prepared and he won’t be let at the grass at all lol

 

[splashgirl45]

at least you now have a reason, which the first vet should have found !!!!!! hopefully she will feel a lot better and good news that she is eating her hay now....at least if you do lose her you will know that you have done everything possible to give her a good quality of life. fingers crossed for both of you...

 

[deepsoftheavy]

We did a resection as there was no other option apart from pts as there was infection in the pedal bone. This was actually resolved by the operation but Im not sure how your mare can cope with both feet being done? The cost will probably exceed your insurance so be prepared for that. Be prepared for a gory looking foot/feet to be re-dressed each day. As regards lying down one good vet told me the best thing a laminitic horse could do is lie down for 12 months with its feet elevated!!! The foot/feet will likely take 12 months to regrow (if she recovers) Hope this helps x

 

[PSD]

We did a resection as there was no other option apart from pts as there was infection in the pedal bone. This was actually resolved by the operation but Im not sure how your mare can cope with both feet being done? The cost will probably exceed your insurance so be prepared for that. Be prepared for a gory looking foot/feet to be re-dressed each day. As regards lying down one good vet told me the best thing a laminitic horse could do is lie down for 12 months with its feet elevated!!! The foot/feet will likely take 12 months to regrow (if she recovers) Hope this helps x

I think they’re just doing the one bad foot as the other doesn’t seem as bad. This is what I’m guessing from what the vets said, it’s going to be a long road ahead but hopefully she comes right

 

[Leo Walker]

My worry is that if I go against the surgery, the insurance won’t pay for the treatment & euthanasia because the vets are advising the surgery will potentially cure her. But now I have to decide what is best for her, money is just that and nothing of importance especially when it comes to her.

They do pay for the treatment. They wont pay for death or disposal though. I had mine PTS as enough was enough and just accepted I'd lose the insured value. for death I wasnt prepared to allow him to suffer in agony for the sake of a pay out.

I think you would be very unwise to do this. It will cost more than your vets fees insurance will pay out. So you are much better to lose the insured value and know the suffering is ended, rather than pay out for treatment which may well not work.

I could not live with myself if I did that to a horse.

 

[ycbm]

I would not do a resection on a horse with the history of yours, sorry

 

[fusspot]

So sorry to read about everything you have gone through.My boy went down suddenly with Lami overnight-fully fit,just been at regionals.My Vet was excellent and said there must have been an underlying cause.We tested him for EMS and he came back at 230 and that was with vet running late and bloods being taken nearly 2 hours later.My boy didn’t like the wet hay to start but soon learnt to deal with it.It should be soaked for 4-5 hours maximum and then rinse off before giving as gets any sugars which it’s been sitting in off. I was absolutely gobsmacked when looking at feed especially the chaff he went on to Dengie Hi Fi Molasses Free and loved it-was at the time by far the healthiest and lowest in sugars. I had him on a very low sugar, high fibre diet so eventually went on to D & H Classic Fibre Cubes. I had him in full work and controlled by diet for 2 years and out daily for up to half a day in a muzzle.He then had another small bout of Lami and started getting a couple of abscesses.We put him on Metformin and again got him Top 10 regionals. The metformin lasted about 2 years and then he got lots of recurring abscesses which was basically him having permanent low grade Lami. I tried but was not improving and one day was shifting weight a lot even on very high painkillers.He was let go that afternoon just over a year ago.It still hurts but I know that with the EMS,there really was nothing more I could do-Vet said I couldn’t have him any lighter,could see his ribs but he still had fat pads and was never going to have any quality of life.She said that like a lot of medication, it stops working after a while.It definetly seems that as climate changes, so does the way some breeds are able to deal with it and the vet said last year they had a ridiculous amount of Laminitis and were nearly all Welshies and majority were all fit,not over weight.Good Luck,the vet and farrier wouldn’t give it a go if they didn’t think it was worth a try.I totally understand and feel waht you are going through.

 

[PSD]

Thank you everyone, I will give you an update later once her resection has been carried out. Fingers crossed it helps her

 

[Yeomans]

Good luck today, keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

[WandaMare]

All the best with her today, hope the procedure is successful and relieves pressure for her, will keep my fingers crossed x

 

[Ceriann]

All the best for today - hope it provides some relief for her and you.

 

[splashgirl45]

good luck for today

 

[PSD]

Thank you all, the resection went really well and there is already a huge difference in her. The vet is really pleased with how it went, she’s still not out of the woods as she has some indentation above her coronet band so we need to keep a close eye on that. But so far so good, I can’t believe the difference already

 

[Mule]

Thank you all, the resection went really well and there is already a huge difference in her. The vet is really pleased with how it went, she’s still not out of the woods as she has some indentation above her coronet band so we need to keep a close eye on that. But so far so good, I can’t believe the difference already

Great news

 

[WandaMare]

Great news, so pleased to hear this

 

[meleeka]

Thank you all, the resection went really well and there is already a huge difference in her. The vet is really pleased with how it went, she’s still not out of the woods as she has some indentation above her coronet band so we need to keep a close eye on that. But so far so good, I can’t believe the difference already

great news. For this who like to be nosey did you take any photos?

 

[vmac66]

Great news. Let's hope she continues to improve