Martin Clunes: Heavy Horse Power

Sorry, I have to say I found this programme a bit disturbing at times and didn't enjoy it as much as I was looking forward to it.
The training of those 2 youngsters, the docked tails of the Budweiser Clydesdales, the weight pulling contest (pleased to see the British entrants had braided their horses tails up though).

I used to work with shire horses and learnt from one of the most respected heavy horsemen in the country at the time. Not that I would call myself an expert or anything like one.

However, it was great to see "proper" horses having some tv coverage and it did give a good insight in to different breeds and the jobs they do. (Although there were not much on Shire horses which are the best!) Particularly enjoyed the drum horse training and the logging horses.
 
ladyt25 said:
Well, clearly those horses were completely ruined by that guy's training and dog chasing.....

Enjoyed that! :)
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Absolutely, they looked really stressed and overbent at the end of the programme, really fizzed up!

inamac said:
Interesting programme, but I was disappointed that no one questioned the fact that all the American heavy horses were short docked (despite the fact that it is illegal in some US states, and has been banned in this country for a century).
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Yes, that was the only thing that I didn't like about the programme, seeing all the docked tails. Even at the French pulling competition, "ours"stood out with their tails plaitted up.


Generally speaking, I really enjoyed watching this. A lady up the road from us has Clydesdales, one has 90 BD points and has done BE90.
 
Loved the programme.

I simply adore Martin Clunes - he's as daft and soft in the head about horses as I am.

NO Ardennes featured though :( My poor Tank was not represented :(.
 
The fishing horses looked just like sisters Big Girl, she is a Westphalian Kaltblut, but I rather think that they and the Belgian Drafts etc share a fair bit of DNA :)
 
Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!
 
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Funny - gotta love HHO for its opinions! FWIW my views:

1) Martin Clunes - a well known gentle presenter, easy to watch, obviously loves his horses which is half his appeal. Seems a bit of an innocent.
2) Liked the get on with it attitude of Samson chap - no frills, good honest man whose horses respect and he treats them with respect
3) Was a bit 'eeekkk' when they hitched him up to Axel the stallion but horses learn a lot from a lead and this is a common training technique. Didnt particularly like Axel attacking the horse in the yard but it was just sensationalism for TV purposes, plus it showed how powerful and agressive these giants are, highlights how impressive they are and how amazing it is that us humans can work with them. All just show for TV.
4) i doubt very much those 2 youngsters were just harnessed up and pulling a pallet around on the first day - but for the purpose of the programme they are not going to show the boring stuff of introducing harness etc.
5) the JRTs chasing after horses heels - again I bet they had a whole lot of footage of those boys lunging nice and quietly but hey thats not good TV - the general non horsey public would find that boring. I actually laughed at the JRT - a bit stupid of it to be doing that but gotta love their spunk - hell that Clydesdale is MASSIVE compared to that dog but it still wanted to take it on! And the pallet it was dragging.
6) Good to see a programme raising awareness of these animals and the fact they will become a dying breed if people dont use them.
7) Great to see the Budweiser horses - again fantastic coverage of them if a little twee. Hoovering a horse - much more interesting than just a boring old groom.
8) I did go hmmmm a bit at the barbed wire shot but again it was the style of the show - no fancy white post and rail fencing here at this good honest Scottish working mans farm (see horses aint just for snobs you know!). What did make me laugh was the arty shot with some ragwort in the foreground ... bit more research needed on that bit - lovely yellow flower from the countryside ....ohhh wait its very poisonus to horses!

Come on guys - it was a TV programme not an educational DVD - enjoyable, always lovely to see some beautiful horses but edited to show the 'interesting, funny' bits. Was never going to be a serious show.
 
Patchworkpony said:
Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!
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I thought that too, especially about his lack of experience with two very young horses. I was a bit shocked when although it said he had never driven, he was given the reins of the team of 6 Budweiser horses. I once had a go at 4 shires but only exercising at home and with lots of experienced people around. You couldn't really see everything though so I presume there were plenty of people on the ground!
 
DragonSlayer said:
I watched a prog once with a trainer in saudi, he would get a horse to lie on the floor, place his knee on the neck and fire a pistol next to the horse. His reason? That would be the worst thing ever to happen to that horse, and training afterwards came easy....I can see the logic.
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One man's training, another man's abuse.

Contrariwise, if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.
 
I found the programme interesting. I suspended my normal beliefs as I know nothing about heavy horses, best way to start or when you should do. I gave MC and the backer credit for a bit of common sense! Axel wasn't attacking the horse - he went after a mare and was a good example of when things can go wrong quickly but equally how RS got him back and under control almost immediately. I thought it demonstrated how well he had trained the stallion!

I personally hated that blooming dog and would have had strong words with my neighbour for letting the wretched thing chase and try to hang onto the horses tail. Forget the horse kicking it, I would have!. I have 3 staffords at the yard and they do not. EVER. chase the horses. Its not rocket science to put the smallest amount of effort to train your dog!
 
FWIW I actually really enjoyed the program, but I was sat there at one point and actually said to the dog 'bet there is a thread 8 pages long on HHO with people not happy about certain things'! I paused the TV and yep, I was right!

I thought the program was well done, and I enjoyed watching it. The same way if you watch another type of program with a person that is passionate about its content there are always opinions of how to do it better.

In my opinion those two horses of MC's have had a fair bit of ground work done with them, before they apparently just plonked the harnesses on. One had already won a lot of prizes as a foal and I am sure you don't just drag them out the field to do that! They also appeared to have traveled very well in the lorry (and unloaded very calmly) and at one point MC was having a good rub of its back and gave one a pat on the back - surely youngsters without any training wouldn't cope with that??

Overall good program, enjoyed seeing the variations or horses still used as work horses, and would love to see a follow up of the program in a years time to see what the horses are up to and how they get along.

One of my favourite parts was when the Axel took the horse through the water, came out the other side and Axel then had a quick word and surprise surprise the youngster went straight through the second time!!
 
ribbons said:
Just finished watching this fantastic programme and thought let's have a look at the experts criticising the methods on HHO.
Sure enough here they all are.
That man is a genius, he has forgotten more about horses than most here will ever know.
The stallion episode happened because Martin had the reins, the stallion recognised his inexperience and took advantage, Robert immediately took control and the stallion returned to obedience.
The dog running around you are all condemning, when that horse is working properly with heavy dangerous machinery harnessed to it, and some idiots dog gets loose and bounds over yapping that horse will not bat an eyelid.
What an absolute pleasure to watch a real horseman at work. Total respect for his horses, complete understanding of controlling them.
What a load of rubbish spouted by people who haven't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.
A little more learning real horsemanship from people like Robert would lead to a lot less posts here about, "help, my horse is rude, bargy, pushy strong etc etc etc.
That man will never ruin or spoil a young horse. Which is more than can be said for a great number of people who post here.
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well said:)
on the topic of the dog i thought it was martins dog as I'm sure somewhen later in the programme he had a JRT in the car with him:confused:
I deliberately logged off HHO before i watched it as i knew the nit picking would spoil it for me:p
 
I enjoyed it!

I know nothing about driving but could clearly see the trainer knew his stuff. I had no problems with how he did things. We have to remember the youngsters were with him for 6 weeks, we didn't see all of their training!

I'm suprised this hasn't been mentioned but I was upset with the state of the Amish horses feet :( Clearly well valued horses but their feet needed attention.
 
I loved the prawn fishing Brabants - OH's comment was 'I bet they take some stopping once they get going'

Also loved the Czech man with his logging team. What a well-trained team!

Has anyone ever read a book by Tim Severin called 'Crusader'? In it he wants to recreate a Crusader's journey to the Holy Land and to do it he buys a 4 year old unbroken Ardennes. Havign read the things that happened while they were trying to break this horse in, I can quite understand why people would start the training earlier.
 
Well I for one loved it :D

I don't see anything wrong with starting work at 2. They weren't exactly pulling anything heavy! Had they made them do that boat thing...then yea, that would have been cruel.

Axel is amazing! I WANT HIM!!
Also, I've had a gelding going at a mare like that, it happens!

I love shows like this :) Shame I couldn't watch it on TV (Working until 11pm :() ITV player is ace.
 
The Amish horses looked like they needed an urgent trim at the very least. And the state of their harness, working harness or not.

And what about putting that young horses in to the shafts next to the stallion, then get it through the water without a major accident.

Having driven horses (single only) I for one would not have sat on the exercise vehicle like MC even if it was my horse being 'trained'!

And what about when MC let the stallion run in to the other horse (gelding?) complete with trap? He needed some lessons before being let loose with a strong horse on the end of his reins.
 
littlemisslauren said:
I saw one with terribly cracked and splayed feet, in need of a trim. I think OH recorded it so I will have another skip through it this afternoon so I can pin point exacly which ones concerned me.
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I did see some odd shaped feet but as they were all barefoot, sound and working in mud (which can produce 'scooping' hooves that aid with traction) I considered it all cosmetic.

The definition on my TV isn't that fine so I didn't see anything closer though.
 
Patchworkpony said:
Says a lot for the nature of MC's horses that they had everything thrown at them at once, including blinkers, strapped to a weight and that yappy dog and it didn't spoil them. An ignorant trainer if you ask me. Most people when they break a horse to harness (including me) start with several weeks of steady long reining then introduce the harness and blinkers slowly, introduce 'shafts' and finally attach a tyre or log with quick release string to give the horse a feeling of pulling a weight. Been doing it for over thirty years and would NEVER take any kind of risk as a runaway harness horse is lethal to everyone.

Two is a good age to start a large horse with slow basic training but not heavy work and encouraging a novice driver to take charge of a pair of inexperienced babies is highly risky. As for the near miss with the stallion MC was lucky he didn't turn over! When I was taught to drive I had safely drummed into me over and over again as the top priority, I suppose I was lucky as my trainers (also friends) were international four-in-hand champions. Also what about a hard hat for MC? HH has reported two terrible accidents this week - both head injuries, one fatal and one near fatal. Guess I'm just old school that respects the power and above all the potential danger of horses in the wrong hands.

Hated the slack barbed wired fencing by the way!
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This.
Personally I thought he came across as ignorant and arrogant - what was his comment early on "I can get a tune out of anything but ...(something to the effect of).... he'll walk all over you if I don't train you"

I'd love to think anyone "we'll respected" and high up in a discipline was worth listening to. Sadly I've learnt there's plenty who think they can when they can't, and it's always to the horses detriment.

No, there may not have been any long term damage (ditto the concerns about skeletal and muscular development on a young horse, but I don't know enough about heavy horses to comment) but is it really necessary to swing a horse round on the lunge, hanging off it's mouth. Hardly productive to Its way of moving. Mind you, that's how a lot of people seem to train their horses in every stage - no real logic, just chuck enough stuff at them and hope they figure It out. Those that don't can be put into the also ran pile if they've coped mentally, those that don't will just get branded "quirky"

Tired of seeing it day in day out really, and very sad when programmes like this put it out their to the wider world, no wonder younger riders have such little feel for their horses. I like Martin Clunes, but poor publicity for the BHS really. Maybe I should lunge like that in my next exam......
 
Having a heavy horse ourselves we loved the programme. Very hard to make an opinion on just a few snaps of him working and training them to harness, however, the barbed wire fencing would concern me. Great to see these lovely horses getting some TV coverage.
 
I enjoyed it, it wasnt a factual documentary otherwise most of the general public wouldnt have watched it. The Amish horses were they docked or not, I dont have a great love for the Amish as they are one of the biggest puppy farmers in the US.:mad:
 
My goodness, what a lot of experts on breaking we have here! :rolleyes:

Anyone actually ever worked with heavy horses? Or broken a horse to drive?

At the end of 8 weeks they were driving quietly and obediently as a pair. Yes, the guys obviously clueless :rolleyes:

Another here who purposely didn't look on here whilst it was on...!
 
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