Mild moan about yards changing the goal posts !

[Mary3050]

Hi Guys ,

Just wanted to have a mild moan and see if I am overreacting. So I moved my horse not long ago two went together and one joined later. The first two settled amazing no issues just the usual stuff getting in a routine with yard . It’s expensive but I think it’s been worth the money. My last horse moved about a week ago . She has issues but she settled fab. Originally when we went to view we discussed her medical issues yard said all fine. We arranged for her to go out on a sand paddock in the summer all day minimum of 8 hours in good weather. Although now as the horse in the other sand paddock got stuck in the electric fence it’s been removed to make one massive paddock . Which means she only getting 3 hours and the fence isn’t going back up. Which means I have had to pay extra for her to be hand walked in a morning as otherwise she stood to long. Then Monday I was approached by the yard owner . Who said my livery for my mare would be going up £1 a day for her in addition to her additional hand walking. Which means I am now paying and additional £21 for my mare . That is unexpected . As she’s requiring more care than they thought legs bandaged and medication syringed. I explained all this to her when I viewed the yard which they said would be included . They also said I could use who I wanted vet , dentist and physio wise . I told them my physio was coming next week and they ask who it was. Once I told them they said I don’t like her and can you get someone else . She the only one I have issue with she said and I will not allow her on the yard . In my case she’s the only one who can keep my mare sound which I explained. She won’t budge which means my physio who I have had for 9 years who kept my mare sound can’t come . This is supposed to be a temporary yard move until we buy a house with more land than our current place . Hopefully 6-12 months but I just feel now I have more stress and cost again. Do I just shut up and put up . I will have to decrease my lessons on my other horses to cover my mares extras . I used to have two lessons a week per horse at a minimum . Due to the price of the lessons at the new yard being almost double the last place . I am having one a week per horse. With the extra i can only really do one horse per week which is annoying. My bill for the horses has already gone up £140 a week plus lessons and other bits.

 

[ihatework]

I do understand the frustration of moving goalposts so can see why you are annoyed.

First I think you need to be clear on the issues. Overall, 3 horses combined, you are paying more money both on livery and for lessons. But you acknowledge it’s generally worth it for what you are getting (I’m assuming you are very happy with the other 2 horses situation?)

So the crux of your issues are 1) the tricky horse and 2) the physio

1) the tricky horse - no matter how well intentioned a YO might be, having a horse that requires a lot of special treatment does cost more and does sometimes mean the ‘ideal’ can’t be met easily. Often you don’t quite appreciate just what the owner expects until they arrive. So, whilst I appreciate the goal posts have changed for you in terms of turnout, hand walking, cost - from the yard perspective they aren’t saying ‘no’ but they are saying that the are you need exceeds what you were paying.

2) Physio - I think this is just unfortunate. Any chance you could box your horses off site for treatment if you specifically want this physio?

With 3 horses, one with special needs, what is the likelihood of finding the perfect yard for them all? Slim I’d imagine. I’d suck it up given it’s temporary anyway

 

[asmp]

If it is possibly only for 6 months I would put up with it. I’m assuming it would be difficult to find somewhere else to put her unless she went back to where you were before? I wouldn’t be happy about the physio though, nor the price increase (did you have any of the pricing in writing beforehand?)

 

[Caol Ila]

That sucks. I really hate it when yards tell you what professionals you can and can't use for no good reason (I suppose there could be reasons... like if a vet or farrier or whoever had been convicted of violent felonies or animal abuse or whatever, but if it's just interpersonal crap between them and YO....).

Can you move your mare to another yard? Having horses spread between multiple yards sucks (this is me right now), but it does not seem as if your current situation is great for you or your mare.

From reading the OP's posts, it looks as if the yard changed their sand paddock turnout arrangement. It went from multiple to paddocks to one paddock? So the one now has to be rotated amongst the owners who want it. Fine... that's the way lots of yards do it, but if I went to a place having been told that my horse would be out all day, and then they said sorry, it's actually just going to be three hours, I would be pretty annoyed.

 

[Mary3050]

I do understand the frustration of moving goalposts so can see why you are annoyed.

First I think you need to be clear on the issues. Overall, 3 horses combined, you are paying more money both on livery and for lessons. But you acknowledge it’s generally worth it for what you are getting (I’m assuming you are very happy with the other 2 horses situation?)

So the crux of your issues are 1) the tricky horse and 2) the physio

1) the tricky horse - no matter how well intentioned a YO might be, having a horse that requires a lot of special treatment does cost more and does sometimes mean the ‘ideal’ can’t be met easily. Often you don’t quite appreciate just what the owner expects until they arrive. So, whilst I appreciate the goal posts have changed for you in terms of turnout, hand walking, cost - from the yard perspective they aren’t saying ‘no’ but they are saying that the are you need exceeds what you were paying.

2) Physio - I think this is just unfortunate. Any chance you could box your horses off site for treatment if you specifically want this physio?

With 3 horses, one with special needs, what is the likelihood of finding the perfect yard for them all? Slim I’d imagine. I’d suck it up given it’s temporary anyway

Yep so happy with the other two. It’s £140 a week full livery . Which is a lot of money around here. It takes them them a minute to syringe her meds and it’s only back legs that need bandaging at night. Like they put other horse boots on thing no charge. Sadly not an option my physio offers .
Haha yes very slim this is the reason we need to find something bigger so they can all come home . Thanks

 

[MuddyMonster]

Did your mare need bandaging and syringing before she moved or is this new? I can understand additional costs due to time but it is frustrating for a livery too.

If you generally like the yard, can you see if you can work with the YO/YM for a compromise?

If bandages are for day to day management rather than an injury, can you have a chat with YO to see if swapping bandages for wraps will mean a reduction in additional costs to you per day?

Is the mare tricky to syringe which is taking the time or is it making it up? Could you pre make a few days worry so the staff don't have to.

Can you take the mare to your physiotherapist somewhere if she's the only one that can keep her sound but she's not allowed on the yard? Perhaps hire an arena or something.

Could she do some time in a 'normal' paddock muzzled so that walking isn't required? I'm assuming the sand paddock is due to metabolic issues.

It is tricky when you have a 'special needs' one - as they do take extra time and management . I think you also have to accept nowhere will be perfect and compromises made. I think accepting one lesson a week may be one of those compromises.

 

[Mary3050]

If it is possibly only for 6 months I would put up with it. I’m assuming it would be difficult to find somewhere else to put her unless she went back to where you were before? I wouldn’t be happy about the physio though, nor the price increase (did you have any of the pricing in writing beforehand?)

There’s a possibility she could go to a friends yard 40 mins away but I wouldn’t see her a lot. Yes I have it in writing before hand but they just said that it’s due to her extra care. It’s already £140 a week per horse which is a lot of money around here . I will have to have a think.

 

[Hunter2021]

Main issue seems to be physio. I’d find an arena to hire and box the horse there, have physio meet you there. Assuming horse is sensibly behaved it shouldn’t be too tricky to treat with you holding her in an arena?

 

[Mary3050]

That sucks. I really hate it when yards tell you what professionals you can and can't use for no good reason (I suppose there could be reasons... like if a vet or farrier or whoever had been convicted of violent felonies or animal abuse or whatever, but if it's just interpersonal crap between them and YO....).

Can you move your mare to another yard? Having horses spread between multiple yards sucks (this is me right now), but it does not seem as if your current situation is great for you or your mare.

From reading the OP's posts, it looks as if the yard changed their sand paddock turnout arrangement. It went from multiple to paddocks to one paddock? So the one now has to be rotated amongst the owners who want it. Fine... that's the way lots of yards do it, but if I went to a place having been told that my horse would be out all day, and then they said sorry, it's actually just going to be three hours, I would be pretty annoyed.

Yep they had a disagreement before we are talking 10 years ago. Just really a difference of opinion. Yer I am thinking about it the other place is 45 mins away and would only be able to see her occasionally. Yer I am pretty annoyed as it’s for her health and now I am having to pay for her to be hand walked. I don’t get why they can’t just put an actual fence up . It used to be split in 4 in winter my other two where there end of winter . With electric fence then to 2 in summer was what I agreed to as only two need it . They said there was chance YO daughters Shetland would need to join my mare if she got fat this summer which was fine as they can go together. But now it’s costing me more for hand walking . Thanks

 

[ihatework]

Cold your mare have the sand paddock overnight and come in during the day?

 

[Mary3050]

Did your mare need bandaging and syringing before she moved or is this new? I can understand additional costs due to time but it is frustrating for a livery too.

If you generally like the yard, can you see if you can work with the YO/YM for a compromise?

If bandages are for day to day management rather than an injury, can you have a chat with YO to see if swapping bandages for wraps will mean a reduction in additional costs to you per day?

Is the mare tricky to syringe which is taking the time or is it making it up? Could you pre make a few days worry so the staff don't have to.

Can you take the mare to your physiotherapist somewhere if she's the only one that can keep her sound but she's not allowed on the yard? Perhaps hire an arena or something.

Could she do some time in a 'normal' paddock muzzled so that walking isn't required? I'm assuming the sand paddock is due to metabolic issues.

It is tricky when you have a 'special needs' one - as they do take extra time and management . I think you also have to accept nowhere will be perfect and compromises made. I think accepting one lesson a week may be one of those compromises.

Yep she did and I asked them before I moved if this was okay. It’s £140 full livery a week per horse which is a lot around here for what’s included. Thing is she had to have hock boots and then bandage back legs so can’t get any boots to fit . They are already made up for her she stands without any head collar on for it too . Sand paddock is due to her being the most accident prone , metabolically unhealthy , has the more health issue than you thought was possible OAP .
The sand paddock tends to support her legs better than turnout if the grounds hard . ?‍♀ She will start to go out on grass when he legs aren’t causing such issues but it’s not for a while yet .

Yer it will have to be hopefully we can find a house soon . When I have her at home I can mange her fine as we will put in a sand paddock for her and a track system for when she can go out . Just got to find a house . Thanks

 

[Mary3050]

Main issue seems to be physio. I’d find an arena to hire and box the horse there, have physio meet you there. Assuming horse is sensibly behaved it shouldn’t be too tricky to treat with you holding her in an arena?

May consider that only thing is if my mares bad and can’t come out of the stable . Thanks

 

[Mary3050]

Cold your mare have the sand paddock overnight and come in during the day?

Sadly not as they won’t leave out over night. I also don’t think she cope with all her issues.

 

[Frumpoon]

Honestly I would take all three horses and my £1800 a month elsewhere as a matter of urgency

 

[Mary3050]

Honestly I would take all three horses and my £1800 a month elsewhere as a matter of urgency

I know just not sure I can deal with another yard move or even find somewhere for all 3 together . It’s probably significantly more than that as I have lessons as well. I am glad you don’t think it’s just me expecting something for nothing .

 

[Lipglosspukka]

Telling you that you can't use your chosen physio is control freak absurd.

Get out of there.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Three horses, one being a special needs horse limits the OP's options for moving yards.

Suck it up as it is only temporary. Travel the horse to the physio off site somewhere, there are bound to be places who would allow this (for a fee).

 

[PurBee]

The goal posts seemed to have moved on everything the yard agreed with you before you moved your horses there.

I would understand it if your mare was a pain to handle and took 2 people to bandage her/syringe her, but you say she’s well behaved and these things are done with ease. You told the YO openly about these things and they agreed, for it to be included in the price - at 140 a week, i should bloody well hope so!

They were the ones that said 8 hours turnout - if that cant happen due to fencing issues, they are the ones who should be seeking a solution to continue to offer you the 8hrs turnout, as contractually agreed.

I’d be having a frank discussion with YO. Ask why she agreed all these things beforehand and now charging more. If its in writing as a contract what you agreed you can state she’s in breach of contract.

As for the physio - that’s childish - she may have had a personal spat with the physio years ago but who the hell do they think they are projecting their issues with people onto their liveries?

Normally, things carry on as they started out, and your experience of this YO means theyre not true to their word, are childish, wont accomodate you - considering the sums youre paying this yard, i’d make a point that their behaviour is unacceptable by looking for another place for all 3 horses.

Moving all 3 might be challenging, but at least move the mare if you can.
If you just comply with their new demands for more money without firmly having a frank discussion about your displeasure of being duped by them, they’ll continue to treat you as a pushover.

People treat us how we allow them to. In this situation, using your vulnerability i.e horse needs as leverage to dupe you to pay more, despite what was agreed before the move, is damn low. It’s terrible business practice too.

You’re paying a lot to this 1 yard - im sure other yards would welcome your thousands per month and will stick to their word. Worth putting in the effort to move, if you can?

 

[Mary3050]

Telling you that you can't use your chosen physio is control freak absurd.

Get out of there.

Thanks I will look for other place but not many about.

Three horses, one being a special needs horse limits the OP's options for moving yards.

Suck it up as it is only temporary. Travel the horse to the physio off site somewhere, there are bound to be places who would allow this (for a fee).

Sadly I don’t even think they will allow that and my mare who needs it the most can’t alway travel . You have to inform them of where your going and who to when going out due to bio security. So think they will make an excuse

 

[milliepops]

having a special needs horse I would also say if the yard fits in most ways and the care is good (you trust them) then I'd suck it up and hope you find a place to buy soon.

it's frustrating but the nature of livery.

the physio thing is really frustrating. My OH is a farrier and there's one yard he is not allowed on because of a totally bonkers spat that the YO had with a different family member, nothing OH has done... he still has a client there and shoes the horse at the end of the drive!! I think I'd possibly try to calmly talk them round on that.

 

[PurBee]

For what you’re paying 1 yard for all 3 - cant you find a 3 box private rental with a field and employ a local groom to livery them when you cant be there?

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Frustrating though it is as it was always going to be temporary I’d just put up with it until you can move to your own property. I doubt you’d find anything that meets all 3 of your horses needs perfectly. Even your friend may not be the answer as people are weird and even those who you think you can fully trust don’t always deliver. There are always compromises no matter what Yard you are on unless it’s your own and even that can have issues.

 

[Mary3050]

The goal posts seemed to have moved on everything the yard agreed with you before you moved your horses there.

I would understand it if your mare was a pain to handle and took 2 people to bandage her/syringe her, but you say she’s well behaved and these things are done with ease. You told the YO openly about these things and they agreed, for it to be included in the price - at 140 a week, i should bloody well hope so!

They were the ones that said 8 hours turnout - if that cant happen due to fencing issues, they are the ones who should be seeking a solution to continue to offer you the 8hrs turnout, as contractually agreed.

I’d be having a frank discussion with YO. Ask why she agreed all these things beforehand and now charging more. If its in writing as a contract what you agreed you can state she’s in breach of contract.

As for the physio - that’s childish - she may have had a personal spat with the physio years ago but who the hell do they think they are projecting their issues with people onto their liveries?

Normally, things carry on as they started out, and your experience of this YO means theyre not true to their word, are childish, wont accomodate you - considering the sums youre paying this yard, i’d make a point that their behaviour is unacceptable by looking for another place for all 3 horses.

Moving all 3 might be challenging, but at least move the mare if you can.
If you just comply with their new demands for more money without firmly having a frank discussion about your displeasure of being duped by them, they’ll continue to treat you as a pushover.

People treat us how we allow them to. In this situation, using your vulnerability i.e horse needs as leverage to dupe you to pay more, despite what was agreed before the move, is damn low. It’s terrible business practice too.

You’re paying a lot to this 1 yard - im sure other yards would welcome your thousands per month and will stick to their word. Worth putting in the effort to move, if you can?

The care the other two horse get is fabulous but my mare is well looked after expect the turnout issues . Yep you would hope so wouldn’t you but no apparently not. To compare one of my other horse Is having to go out with One of the YO kids pony’s as apparently they have run out of field space despite asking for individual turnout . Which is pretty much impossible when you see the size of massive field some livery have to themselves. I don’t get a discount for that . I have struggled to find anywhere that can give the level of care needed. But this is supposed to be a professional yard. I don’t think my money matters when you see what some owners are spending with 2 horses talking Daily lessons, schooling, lunging, grooming, tack up etc all paid for as extras.

 

[Mary3050]

having a special needs horse I would also say if the yard fits in most ways and the care is good (you trust them) then I'd suck it up and hope you find a place to buy soon.

it's frustrating but the nature of livery.

the physio thing is really frustrating. My OH is a farrier and there's one yard he is not allowed on because of a totally bonkers spat that the YO had with a different family member, nothing OH has done... he still has a client there and shoes the horse at the end of the drive!! I think I'd possibly try to calmly talk them round on that.

I am thinking i may have to widen the house search area. Then I am wondering why all my friends want me to buy a bigger property to come join me . As they know the horse come first in my opinion. At least when we get somewhere my mare will be well taken care off and have all she needs. Think I need to get a bloody livery yard for what they charge and actually do . I don’t think they will move on the point at all. How daft is that making him shoe at the end of the drive. People change like 10 years ago is a bloody long time .

 

[Mary3050]

Frustrating though it is as it was always going to be temporary I’d just put up with it until you can move to your own property. I doubt you’d find anything that meets all 3 of your horses needs perfectly. Even your friend may not be the answer as people are weird and even those who you think you can fully trust don’t always deliver. There are always compromises no matter what Yard you are on unless it’s your own and even that can have issues.

Think I am gonna have to . I mean as long as they don’t continue being restrictive and put my livery up any more . Yer I guess there is. At least I will know now not to treat livery when I have a few at the new place hopefully

 

[Annagain]

Could your mare and the other horse be turned out together? The other owner can't be happy with 3 hours a day either, could you go to the YO together and suggest that?

 

[FireCracker238]

People treat us how we allow them

Thank you for posting this, it really struck a chord with me today

Sadly I don’t even think they will allow that and my mare who needs it the most can’t alway travel . You have to inform them of where your going and who to when going out due to bio security. So think they will make an excuse

To a degree I can understand this but it also sounds quite ridiculous and very restrictive at the same time. Are you in a suspected EHV-1 (think I've got those initials right) area?

 

[Mary3050]

Could your mare and the other horse be turned out together? The other owner can't be happy with 3 hours a day either, could you go to the YO together and suggest that?

I suggested this but apparently the other owners said no. Apparently the horse doesn’t like to be out more than 3 hours. Which it probably would if it was out with company.

 

[Mary3050]

Thank you for posting this, it really struck a chord with me today


To a degree I can understand this but it also sounds quite ridiculous and very restrictive at the same time. Are you in a suspected EHV-1 (think I've got those initials right) area?

Nope, we are not I have already been warned about this as apparently they get very strict over the smallest thing. Like you go away to a competition for more than a night and you get put in isolation for two weeks .

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

You have to inform them of where your going and who to when going out due to bio security. So think they will make an excuse

For what you’re paying 1 yard for all 3 - cant you find a 3 box private rental with a field and employ a local groom to livery them when you cant be there?

Wow! Is that normal with livery yards you have to tell them where you are going and who to? that wouldn't work for me on privacy grounds alone! I get the bio security stuff, but IMO that should only become an issue if there is some concerns within the local area - not just ad hoc for all liveries at anytime when they go anywhere. Controlling much!

I like PurBee's solution, far more sensible and I would think also very much more financially do'able.