Mild moan about yards changing the goal posts !

[paddi22]

I wouldn't budge on the physio thing. why should spend extra time/cost/diesel because a YO doesn't like a person. My physio would have a full history of my horse and issues, and would see changes every time she comes. There is no way I would want a stranger I didn't know coming in to treat her.

 

[RHM]

I’m not allowed my physio on my current yard so I can sympathise! I’m my experience if someone is this irrational it’s probably not worth trying to convince them otherwise. I just rent a local arena and meet them there.

 

[Mary3050]

Would your horse be Ok if the other one came in after 3 hours? Yours could then stay out. The situation sounds so controlling but unfortunately that's the case on many livery yards. I've moved twice only to have the yard owner 'forget' what we'd agreed when I viewed or make instant changes to it. I envy you the prospect of your own place. I think you've got Hobson's choice. You may just have to put up with it and hope you find somewhere else soon.

Yep but the other horses owners won’t have them turned out together. Thanks let hope so

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

I went to visit a yard for our big move to York. It was picturesque. Had hacking, jumps school, flat school, ran clinics, xc jump school (surface and field). Nice airy stable, lots of storage.

...and a completely psycho YO. I was given the rulebook version of War and Peace. God knows how many pages it was. Any professional visiting (farrier, vet, physio etc) had to provide the YO with their qualifications and insurance details. If they didn't they weren't allowed on. Guests had to be prebooked, so many rules. Then saw a post about the yard on the local fb group and looks like most people didn't last longer than a few weeks.

 

[milliepops]

I went to visit a yard for our big move to York. It was picturesque. Had hacking, jumps school, flat school, ran clinics, xc jump school (surface and field). Nice airy stable, lots of storage.

...and a completely psycho YO. I was given the rulebook version of War and Peace. God knows how many pages it was. Any professional visiting (farrier, vet, physio etc) had to provide the YO with their qualifications and insurance details. If they didn't they weren't allowed on. Guests had to be prebooked, so many rules. Then saw a post about the yard on the local fb group and looks like most people didn't last longer than a few weeks.

I arena hired a bit at a local yard last year and was made to sign a 6 page disclaimer!

 

[Mary3050]

If the other mare will be out for no more than 3 hours, why can't yours be out for 5 hours? I couldn't do with this nonsense tbh and would have to move all 3.

I spoke to them today and said I wasn’t happy with the turnout situation as she can’t be stood all that time as the vet advised her to be out for 8 hours at a minimum. They said they could leave her out until just before the groom leaves . So she will get about 5 or so hours .

 

[Chianti]

if livery moved into the 21st century many of us would be priced out, DIY is ridiculously cheap in most areas and if yards moved with the times we'd probably be paying what the OP is just for a stable and some turnout!

This doesn't seem to be about money though but more the YO changing what has been agreed and being over controlling about the physio. I know that livery is a business and owners have to make a profit but it's the way some businesses are run that makes the clients so irritated. Years ago I went to view a yard for part livery and clearly explained that my horse needed back brushing boots, front boots - she'd previously had a tendon injury and overreach boots as she could pull a shoe off at the drop of a hat. So six boots in total. This was said to be fine. A couple of weeks later I was told that there would have to be a charge 'otherwise everyone else will want boots put on.' The charge was going to be 50 pence per boot per day- so £3 a day and £21 a week to put on boots - which was quite a lot of money back then. I thanked them for the offer but said I'd call in on my way to work and do it. I also found out quite quickly that this yard didn't expect to have to do the beds at the weekend and got grumpy if you didn't come. None of this was mentioned on my first visit.

 

[milliepops]

i know it's not about the money, it was a glib remark but i think it's true, we all want different things and I want to pay £30 a week livery for the rest of my days (actually if it could be £10 a week that would be wonderful )
but I accept that it's rare to find a highly professional totally customer service focused yard for that. the finances don't add up so they are generally not run as "proper" businesses. It's a side point to the OP.

 

[Mary3050]

Are you not able to move your mare to your small field at home?

Not an option unfortunately she can’t be on grass . Not worth having a sand paddock put in to move house .

 

[Mary3050]

That level of control would drive me crazy. It's frustratingly common. In my last Great Yard Hunt, I ran away from a place which detailed in the contract how you were to provide medical care for your horse (you must try alternative medicines before resorting to stuff like, say, Danilon), and, among other things, stated that you must notify YO whenever you had a visitor, and if someone else was taking care of your horse, you had to prove to YO that they were "experienced." But at least it was in the contract, so I dodged that bullet.

The YO of an ex-yard once gave me a bollocking for taking my horse to a two-day clinic. I'd planned on trailering the horse home overnight, as the clinic wasn't far away and I thought I could save stabling costs. But horse had other views and it took two hours to get her into the trailer that morning. Not wanting to go through that again, I decided to use the clinic yard's stabling. Texted YO immediately to tell him that. When I nipped back to my yard later in the evening to grab feed and a rug, the YO lit into me with guns blazing: "You said she was coming back!" I did, but you witnessed the epic trailer fight. "But you said she was coming back!" I changed my mind. "You'd better hope all those horses are vaccinated! She better not be stabled near anything!" I'm not an idiot. She's not sharing feed or water or in contact with any other horse.

Omg my mare would be in massive trouble at the first yard . No amount of herbs, turmeric , massages or anything else can fix her ?. Make you laugh don’t they .

 

[Mary3050]

I'm a YO (albeit a mere DIY one) and can understand where both parties are coming from.

Taking on a horse with medical issues at a yard is never going to be straightforward as things can change by the day and both the client and the YO can't ever hope to possibly predict what for e.g. a vet or other professional may prescribe in the way of aftercare; so I think you may have to accept the way things are with this regard. Pay up and look sweet might be what you will have to do.

Re. the refusal to allow your chosen physio on the yard; there may be all sorts of reasons for this - it could just be down to a personality-clash, or there may have been a professional opinion and/or treatment that was disagreed with and the issue was never resolved. The problem is, you might not know all the gory details! What you have been told might be (and probably is) one-sided. I think that again, whilst this is hugely annoying (and some would regard it as childish even) there is nothing you can do other than try to perhaps source a "neutral" venue where your horse could be treated by this particular physio. All I would say is that sometimes a YO needs to act in a protective role to protect both clients and their horses; for instance there is a certain "saddle fitter" (and I use the term guardedly as they're about as honest as a weasel) who I would never in a million years have anywhere near my yard due to the fact that they not only thoroughly fleeced me but also my then-time livery client and they are thoroughly unreliable and unpleasant people to deal with to boot. So there may be more to the dispute than you are aware of........

I really feel you would be best advised to seek alternative livery as soon as possible; you are obviously not happy and no YO wants that.

Yep I know it’s a lot but when your offering a professional service at a high price and have agreed to do so beforehand than the price should remain the same .Can’t see it going down either if she doesn’t need it all doing.

 

[Mary3050]

Of course these are perfectly valid points to make from the YO perspective. The point in the OP however was that it isn't the required care of the horse which has changed, it is the service the yard had agreed to provide. On the physio point, it would have been very helpful if the YO, knowing that they had an issue with certain people, had actually said so in advance and checked that it wasn't going to cause a problem. It is the YO's inconsistent messaging here which appears to be the cause of the issues, not the requests of the client.

Yep wouldn’t have been so annoyed if they said it in the first place but no tell me after the horse arrives . I did ask if I was okay to use my own vet etc they said yet . So don’t really see how it’s my fault .

 

[Mary3050]

The physio thing sounds really odd to me. I could understand if YO did not want to deal with them and asked you to attend, but to refuse to allow you to use your chosen physio seems a very strange way for an adult to behave!

I attend all my appointments for my horses . Even though it’s now included in my livery but I told her I didn’t need her to do any of the visits .

 

[Mary3050]

This
I can understand your frustration and would be looking to move if it was me. That's a serious amount of money to be paying out a month. The significantly decreased turnout, and inability to use your own physio would be a deal breaker for me.

Part of the reason I am getting somewhere bigger . I could put 1/3 into a mortgage on a bigger property. Then Employ a friend to do mine plus a couple of livery’s. I managed to get more turnout from them as I said the vet said it’s not going to work ?

 

[Mary3050]

Could you box her to the physios

Not an option we have with her sadly

could the mare with the medical issues be moved to a track livery?there are several around. full livery. there tends to average £400ish month. infact if theres a good local one move all of them to track livery.

Don’t think it would work for her . But also the nearest is over an hour away . We are gonna put a smaller on in for her when we buy a new house

 

[Mary3050]

I've met a lot of crazy YO's since moving to Somerset but no-one's stopped me having who I wanted on the yard to treat my horses. The worst type of moving the goalposts was also upping the price after I moved on, that YO also turned out my elder mare in her Thermatex one November night as the other horse was calling (she had company). He was also the one who when I was suffering with flu and hadn't poo picked at night through the week told me to F off and find somewhere else - as I was catching up with the poo picking. He also used to complain when my head torch shining into his living room when I was poo picking at night. Years later a work colleague was on his yard and upset because he used to go into the barn and tip out her hay that was soaking as having it lying around was making the place untidy - he threw her partially soaked hay on the muck heap. He always has vacancies.

Omg there are so crazy YO about not surprised he was always having vacancies.

 

[Mary3050]

This doesn't seem to be about money though but more the YO changing what has been agreed and being over controlling about the physio. I know that livery is a business and owners have to make a profit but it's the way some businesses are run that makes the clients so irritated. Years ago I went to view a yard for part livery and clearly explained that my horse needed back brushing boots, front boots - she'd previously had a tendon injury and overreach boots as she could pull a shoe off at the drop of a hat. So six boots in total. This was said to be fine. A couple of weeks later I was told that there would have to be a charge 'otherwise everyone else will want boots put on.' The charge was going to be 50 pence per boot per day- so £3 a day and £21 a week to put on boots - which was quite a lot of money back then. I thanked them for the offer but said I'd call in on my way to work and do it. I also found out quite quickly that this yard didn't expect to have to do the beds at the weekend and got grumpy if you didn't come. None of this was mentioned on my first visit.

I am a more annoyed tag at they didn’t say before we arrived . Yes I have noticed this a lot that YO expect everyone to do the same if your the only one not doing your horses on YO birthday, kid’s birthday, Christmas week you excluded . They seem to forget what they say a lot

 

[Mary3050]

I went to visit a yard for our big move to York. It was picturesque. Had hacking, jumps school, flat school, ran clinics, xc jump school (surface and field). Nice airy stable, lots of storage.

...and a completely psycho YO. I was given the rulebook version of War and Peace. God knows how many pages it was. Any professional visiting (farrier, vet, physio etc) had to provide the YO with their qualifications and insurance details. If they didn't they weren't allowed on. Guests had to be prebooked, so many rules. Then saw a post about the yard on the local fb group and looks like most people didn't last longer than a few weeks.

I guess it could be worse then . That’s crazy isn’t it . Lucky escape by the sounds

 

[stormox]

The physio thing sounds really odd to me. I could understand if YO did not want to deal with them and asked you to attend, but to refuse to allow you to use your chosen physio seems a very strange way for an adult to behave!

I have been on a yard that fell out with their regular farrier who shod my horse too. Next time shoeing was due I wasnt.allowed to get that farrier to the yard I had to use their new one.
I refused and got my mare shod in a local car park by the original guy.

 

[TPO]

While demand continues to exceed supply there is no motivation for yards to change. Most are running with a wait list

If I were to have a yard or take liveries a certain vet practice and farrier woulsnt be allowed on my property but this would have been clearly communicated from the start.

The YO is in the wrong because she agreed all physios could visit and once you arrived then said "but it that one".

Could you ask for permission for a one off visit due to the misunderstanding, the horse being a routine/requiring a treatment soon and there not being enough time to find a suitable replacement. Perhaps labour your horses issues and how it really has only been this physio that has helped.

If YO can tolerate one visit she might allow more or if not would one visit and some exercises from the physio ser you through until you can move?

It's so annoying (putting it politely) when you ask all the right questions and get as guaranteed as possible answers to arrive and find it was a load of rubbish.

 

[Chianti]

That’s nothing, when we lived in the U.K. we were in a yard where on Christmas Day nothing was allowed to be turned out as the owners wanted to sit in having dinner with no liveries around. Happy sodding Christmas ?

My friend was on an almost full livery yard where nothing got turned out from Christmas Eve to 2nd Jan. If you wanted your horse out you either had to do both ends of the day or team up with someone else. Needless to say there was no reduction in the cost.

 

[Mary3050]

While demand continues to exceed supply there is no motivation for yards to change. Most are running with a wait list

If I were to have a yard or take liveries a certain vet practice and farrier woulsnt be allowed on my property but this would have been clearly communicated from the start.

The YO is in the wrong because she agreed all physios could visit and once you arrived then said "but it that one".

Could you ask for permission for a one off visit due to the misunderstanding, the horse being a routine/requiring a treatment soon and there not being enough time to find a suitable replacement. Perhaps labour your horses issues and how it really has only been this physio that has helped.

If YO can tolerate one visit she might allow more or if not would one visit and some exercises from the physio ser you through until you can move?

It's so annoying (putting it politely) when you ask all the right questions and get as guaranteed as possible answers to arrive and find it was a load of rubbish.

Yes I agree should have been told . I asked that they said I have had a weeks notice which is enough . Happens a lot doesn’t it

 

[Flyermc]

I spoke to them today and said I wasn’t happy with the turnout situation as she can’t be stood all that time as the vet advised her to be out for 8 hours at a minimum. They said they could leave her out until just before the groom leaves . So she will get about 5 or so hours .

Just make sure this happens and they arent just saying so to please you!

Id ask myself if all the changes that they have made, had been known at the start, would you still have wanted to move your horses for the short team? If the answer is yes, id just suck it up and really start house hunting!!!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

While demand continues to exceed supply there is no motivation for yards to change. Most are running with a wait list

If I were to have a yard or take liveries a certain vet practice and farrier woulsnt be allowed on my property but this would have been clearly communicated from the start.

I have 1 farrier I wouldnt ever let on my yard even now, I know he's still working but doesn't have many clients.
There was in the distant past 1 vet who I threw off my yard on a Sunday afternoon when called to an emergency, I banned him too, tho happily 6 months later he got stuck off. On that occasion I was very glad to have the senior partners home number and got him out to finish the flushing and sutures. He completely understood my reasons for throwing off his employee.

When I have had liveries in the past, I've left them to crack on with their choice of professionals.

My yard rules aren't many, mostly for safety (and I used to be very anal about my muck heap, but now more relaxed these days ?)

 

[Lois Lame]

I'm a YO (albeit a mere DIY one) and can understand where both parties are coming from.

Taking on a horse with medical issues at a yard is never going to be straightforward as things can change by the day and both the client and the YO can't ever hope to possibly predict what for e.g. a vet or other professional may prescribe in the way of aftercare; so I think you may have to accept the way things are with this regard. Pay up and look sweet might be what you will have to do.

Re. the refusal to allow your chosen physio on the yard; there may be all sorts of reasons for this - it could just be down to a personality-clash, or there may have been a professional opinion and/or treatment that was disagreed with and the issue was never resolved. The problem is, you might not know all the gory details! What you have been told might be (and probably is) one-sided. I think that again, whilst this is hugely annoying (and some would regard it as childish even) there is nothing you can do other than try to perhaps source a "neutral" venue where your horse could be treated by this particular physio. All I would say is that sometimes a YO needs to act in a protective role to protect both clients and their horses; for instance there is a certain "saddle fitter" (and I use the term guardedly as they're about as honest as a weasel) who I would never in a million years have anywhere near my yard due to the fact that they not only thoroughly fleeced me but also my then-time livery client and they are thoroughly unreliable and unpleasant people to deal with to boot. So there may be more to the dispute than you are aware of........

I really feel you would be best advised to seek alternative livery as soon as possible; you are obviously not happy and no YO wants that.

I agree with all of this except the last tiny paragraph as I don't get the feeling that the YO/YM wants Mary gone.

 

[Lois Lame]

As it's relatively short term and your are happy on the whole I would suck it up. I would ask if the hand walking could be done for free as the agreed time out has been drastically reduced. If 8hrs out had been stuck too, the hand walking would be unnecessary.

That's a terrific idea. Mary, why not have a conversation along this line? Put it forward as a suggestion.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

This issue is difficult, normally if there is problems with a livery yard you vote with your feet & move. I'm in he same boat as you because I have 3 horses on a livery yard, it was difficult to find a yard with 3 vacancies so you have to bite your tongue on occasions when something is said. The only advice is stay at preswenrt yard & look harder to find your new house & land.

 

[Getbackboys]

hi all, i couldnt read and run without giving my opinion to this valid discussion so here goes, so sorry OP has this unneccessary stress as a paying livery and a customer at that. i have met and experienced a few nuts case YO myself and agree that livery yards have not come into the 21st Century but why not. it is because us liveries accept this BS because of fear of having no where to put our horses when we get kicked off because we choose to stand up for our rights.....in various divisions....i would rather pay more and get what is offered and was agreed. How many livery yards are not VAT registered and liveries are paying for YO personal horses no maintenance done to fields etc. A lot of these do not have insurance. A lot just happen to be lucky enough to have come into or been left or married in to money and are able to have land and stables so set out to do livery, but with the thought that they are doing us a favour not the other way around, drives me insane. OP if it was me i would move and the day i leave i would throw a comment about being VAT registered i would also make a call to HMS, enough is enough with these people. OP is your mare happy. Her quality of life sounds hard and therefore cant be pleasant for her or for you. I wont say anymore as a horse owner and carer her future and yours is in yr hands. i wish you the best of luck in settling somewhere, and for the rest of us bullied, taken for a ride, lied to liveries lets make a stand and start letting HMS know about these dodgy companies because at the end of the day, the livery taking yr money is a company if they are taking yr hard earned money from you

 

[ITPersonnage]

So how is not being VAT registered a bad thing ? Run that one past me again, and what is wrong with YOs having their own horses ? I'm neither a YO or owner (now) but your post seems overly aggressive and bizarre, but maybe it's just me. Who/what is the HMS ? Some sort of ship ??

 

[Berpisc]

Okidoke then