Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
And then the dealer gets away with it and is free to con more buyers down the line.
My horse is older than advertised/and on passport
- Thread starter sausagedogqueen
- Start date
And then the dealer gets away with it and is free to con more buyers down the line.
millikins
Well-Known Member
So £500 is a starting point. At least dealer appears to be open to negotiation.
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
Oh, it's not right and it is upsetting, but it sounds like the horse is right for the job apart from the age. If the horse is sold back to the dealer, they win then too when they sell him to someone else as an 11 year old.
If it is taken to court, there is no guarantee that Op will get any money off the dealer, if the dealer is indeed dodgy.
When looking for a horse, it is such an emotional thing for a one horse owner, I would take the view that it is about my own happiness rather than being a social crusade.
I also don't underestimate the difficulty in finding another sane and sound horse!
If OP does send him back and get another, I wouldn't touch the mare and I would have a 5 stage vetting on anything else, from whatever source. OP sounded well meaning but inexperienced with a new horse, from a previous thread, so temperament will also be key.
sausagedogqueen
Well-Known Member
Im undecided folks. I know I'd stand a good chance of winning in court, but as many have said, even if i win i might still not see the money. Then bailffs cost even more. And even then, if nothing to take its still a loss. We have all seen cant pay we'll take it away!
Vet booked for Tuesday so i want confirmation on how sound he is for what i want him for plus an idea of age ie. If in his 20s then I'm not backing down.
If confirmed around 17 and fit and well i am in two minds accepting the 500 purely just to avoid the added stress and court and further costs which i may never see back.
Vet booked for Tuesday so i want confirmation on how sound he is for what i want him for plus an idea of age ie. If in his 20s then I'm not backing down.
If confirmed around 17 and fit and well i am in two minds accepting the 500 purely just to avoid the added stress and court and further costs which i may never see back.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I'm with Red I think you could go to court have costs and end up getting nothing, if the horse is healthy and your happy I would be tempted to just accept what they are offering.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Deleted. Wrong end of the stick
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Thats very true but as has been said by Rowreach, at least if OP goes down the legal route and if she wins it is very bad publicity for the seller, which she is then free to broadcast far and wide and it could well save some others from being ripped off. Plus the more CCJs against the dealer the more difficult it is for them to hide their nefarious dealings in the horse world. Is it possible to check for CCJs over there against sellers? I am just wondering if they may already have chalked some up.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Yes I did nearly suggest checking for CCJs too.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t accept his first offer, definitely not! A money claim online is simple and merely a form. That will get you a CCJ if he doesn’t respond and I’d do that as a matter of principle. It’s up to you if you take it further after that with bailiffs etc.
Here’s the link to claim online https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
Tbh a horse is worth what someone will pay for it and as has been said on here many times a safe hacking horse is worth its weight in gold. Yes you have been had but you chose to buy from a dealer who had no facilities for a full vetting (really?), to not have a vetting, despite advice on here, because you liked the horse and thought that he would be suitable for the job you wanted him to do.
You could have paid a minimal amount, or 2x what you did pay for a younger horse and have it drop down dead within a week. The amount you pay has absolutely no bearing on how long a horse lives.
By all means try to negotiate a bigger refund, as the dealer has admitted liability but unless the vet finds something seriously wrong with the horse that means that he is unsuitable for hacking, my advice is to keep him and enjoy hacking him for as long as he remains fit to do so. Personally I would advise most first time owners to buy a teenage horse that knows his job.
You could have paid a minimal amount, or 2x what you did pay for a younger horse and have it drop down dead within a week. The amount you pay has absolutely no bearing on how long a horse lives.
By all means try to negotiate a bigger refund, as the dealer has admitted liability but unless the vet finds something seriously wrong with the horse that means that he is unsuitable for hacking, my advice is to keep him and enjoy hacking him for as long as he remains fit to do so. Personally I would advise most first time owners to buy a teenage horse that knows his job.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
There is very little stress in going through small claims court. You just need to lay out your case clearly on a form with any documentation to back you up. I didn't even have to turn up, it was all done by the judge.
If you win you get your costs back. You have your documents with the passport saying he is over 16 and the advert saying he is 11.
Aperchristmas
Well-Known Member
I completely understand feeling overwhelmed by this situation (I definitely would) but if you can summon the mental resolve, I would highly recommend going to small claims court. You have a good case (although make sure you get as much documentation as possible) and the costs will be small. The other costs you incur are a good idea to do anyway in the circumstances and what you are already doing - getting a vet to verify his age and checking him over physically. Sleep on it, but I do think you can do this.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
I don’t know what you paid for the horse OP, but it sounds like way over the odds if you’d be looking to get 3-4k back due to him being older than advertised. If you can get £500 back and the vet finds the horse to be sound for what you want to do with him, I’d go with that. I think you have to accept that you’ve overpaid, bearing in mind he had feather mites and wasn’t in good condition when he arrived. You also need to consider what you’ve spent on him as that will just be wasted money if you send him back.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Doesn’t sound much like he’s willing to negotiate to me
So in this situation where you’d keep the horse if it wasn’t older than advertised, you’d send the horse back if you couldn’t get more than £500 back? Taking into account the OP has probably spent £1000 on treating feather mites, tack, vet visit next week etc. (which she won’t see back). And probably won’t end up getting her money back if it goes to court because these bin end dealers are excellent at ensuring their assets are ‘owned’ by other people.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Is that a question for me?
I’ve already asked the OP what outcome she wants, and she’s answered above, and said she’d want a substantial partial refund.
If I was in this situation (and this is purely what I would do, not what I’m telling anyone else they should do) I’d take the b*****d to the cleaners. I’m frankly sick to death of dealers behaving like this, and of trying to help owners sort out the aftermath of owning crocked horses.
A £500 refund is nothing to the dealer and gets him completely off the hook and free to con the next person, and the next, and the next.
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gallopingby
Well-Known Member
I think if the dealer is offering £500 they can maybe be persuaded to increase a bit more, but you need to make sure the horse is ok first. A vetting costs anything between £250 and £450 depending on what’s required. You could try just less than £1000. I think transport was included so that would probably have about £200 depending on mileage. Otherwise l’d strongly consider the small claims court.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Of course it’s a question for you! That’s why I quoted you
A £500 refund is not nothing, it’s £500. We don’t know what percentage of the purchase price that is. If I wanted a lovely safe horse only to hack, would it matter hugely if the horse was aged 11 or 17? Probably not when taking into account she likes the horse and the money she has already spent on him. Sure I get what you’re saying about the dealer, but taking everything into account, in this particular circumstance and if the vet doesn’t identify any issues, I would go with it.Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
If the dealer is offering £500, then he /she is admitting liability. Keep going. Maybe you won't gain anything more, but you will be giving someone else sleepless nights. And as for can't pay, won't pay - he/she has your money!
sausagedogqueen
Well-Known Member
I will post an update on Tuesday after tha vet has been. Stressing like I have been over the past couple of days is making me feel unwell, not sleeping properly and its affecting how I'm being with others just snappy and irritable.. need a few days to just calm down and reasses from the vet visit. 
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
I will post an update on Tuesday after tha vet has been. Stressing like I have been over the past couple of days is making me feel unwell, not sleeping properly and its affecting how I'm being with others just snappy and irritable.. need a few days to just calm down and reasses from the vet visit.
Go easy on yourself and try and have a couple of days not stressing, I know its easier said than done. And don't go blaming yourself, your are one of many that get caught this way by these scumbags and there but for fortune and all that. I like to think I am fairly experienced in buying and selling, but I've been caught a couple of times over the years. In can happen to any of us not just novice owners so don't feel bad. I hope your next few days are as stress free as possible under the circumstances.
Fjord
Well-Known Member
I will post an update on Tuesday after tha vet has been. Stressing like I have been over the past couple of days is making me feel unwell, not sleeping properly and its affecting how I'm being with others just snappy and irritable.. need a few days to just calm down and reasses from the vet visit.
Big hugs. Try and relax a bit over the weekend, I'm not surprised you're getting stressed.
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
Of course it’s a question for you! That’s why I quoted you
If you read the whole thread you’ll know that it’s a very small percentage, but no matter, not my horse not my money.
nagblagger
Well-Known Member
Enjoy Jet over the weekend and if he is lovely as he sounds, he is priceless!
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I’ve got my fingers crossed that the vet finds Jet no older than 17 and sound so you can keep your boy and chase the dealer for a bit more money knowing that you have a good horse although a little older than you wanted.
nikicb
Well-Known Member
Of course it’s a question for you! That’s why I quoted you
@Upthecreek we do know how much the OP paid, she said so in a previous post.
I think expecting £3-4k back is unrealistic. In my opinion, a safe (and I assume sound) hack is worth more than £2-3k in the current market, even at 17 years old.
Good luck for Tuesday OP, and try not to lose any more sleep over the situation - hard I know, but it won't change anything at the moment. Once he has been assessed by a vet, you will have a better idea of what you are dealing with.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Sorry I didn’t see that post. In that case I’d probably be asking for £2k back and settle for £1k. I’d definitely continue trying to negotiate with the dealer to get more than the first offer of £500. But if it goes well with the vet and I really like the horse I’d probably chalk it up to experience and accept £500 to avoid further stress and hassle.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
Looking at it a different way, I'd probably expect about 1/3 off the price for the lower number of years if have to enjoy the horse.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
When you buy a horse you have no idea how long you will have to enjoy it. I have had to pts a 6 Yr old and 2 x11 yr olds, while an 8 yr old was effectively retired to the field, although she lived to be 22. I have had other horses live into their 30s but I had no clue that they would do when I bought them. When i buy a horse I pay what I think is a suitable amount *at the time*, vases on what ge horse has done in the past, not on how long I hope it might live.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
No but you can think of averages and the likelihood of an active live and lifespan . If i bought an 11 year, I would hope with a bit of luck to still be riding at 21, i wouldn't be so hopeful at 27. It's more likely in 10 years time a 21 year old will be around than a 27 year old.
Plus an older horse is more likely to start developing other health issues which will affect how much you pay as there are costs associated with managing them.
I would buy a younger horse wanting to lessen the probability of conditions and wear and tear associated with older horses. I can't prevent having to retire or pts a horse before it's time, I had to retire my best ever horse at 10 with a condition so rare they still comment on it, but i can do what i can to stack the odds in my favour.
A suitable price for a horse takes into account age and affects it's market value.
If the OP is going down the legal route, it is better to have a rationale behind any partial refund they want that they cam present to someone judging the case who will likely not have any knowledge of horses.