Michen
Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry HF. If she’s not cheerful and happy in the field I’d be calling it a day. You’ve done everything you could and some of them just can’t be fixed.
Navicular and good feet
- Thread starter Hormonal Filly
- Start date
Alibear
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, HF. That is a lot of physical issues, and I too, have had zero luck when hind suspensories have been part of the issue. From what you've posted, it sounds like she's not happy in the field either, so I'd be thinking about PTS.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry - was hoping it was just hoof balance.
I never got my mare with hind suspensory damage sound, but she's happy in the field.
Take some time to think everything through xx
I never got my mare with hind suspensory damage sound, but she's happy in the field.
Take some time to think everything through xx
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Thanks all. 
rubbish times.
If insurance accept the front foot claim, as I am already over the excess amount, that I think I will go for a MRI, just so I have a definite diagnosis on her front feet. It will help when making a decision.
rubbish times. If insurance accept the front foot claim, as I am already over the excess amount, that I think I will go for a MRI, just so I have a definite diagnosis on her front feet. It will help when making a decision.
Lamehorses
Well-Known Member
I think mri ( checking insurance will pay) is a good idea, decisions are easiest when you know exactly what you are dealing with.
I have seen hind suspensories fixed with indiba treatment , but that may not be relevant I'd you have alot of other issues going in.
I have seen hind suspensories fixed with indiba treatment , but that may not be relevant I'd you have alot of other issues going in.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Oh gosh, that's not what you wanted to hear. Whatever decision you come to, you will make the right one. Is she on any pain relief? Would you keep her if she was field sound and pain free? Good luck with the MRI - I hope you can get it done and it reveals a better prognosis.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Not on any pain relief, she isn’t in work at the moment and when she’s on danilon she gets even more aggy.
I’d have to find a retirement yard and I’m not sure if she’d be happy with that at the moment, she hates horses near her.
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Oh what rubbish news, I'm so sorry!
If it helps, one of mine had 'something' in the front feet (could have been soft tissue, could have been the huge sidebone, could have been something else), plus PSD, with a some SI discomfort. It was a lot and like you it was a hard day, as she was only 9 and so talented, also not insured and although I would have funded anything the vet wrote her off.
I tried steroid injections and keeping her shod (she had always been barefoot until we tried studs for eventing and then the wheels fell off), but that only lasted a few weeks. I then stopped riding for 6 months and let her mooch in the field, she did come in overnight that winter. After 6 months she was to all intents and purposes sound, so we started hacking in straight lines. Three years later I think she's even sounder (I swear I could still feel something fractionally downhill though others couldn't see it), she feels fantastic now.
I did however make a choice that she will only be a hack (though a fairly hard core hack, she's done fun rides, will pop a log, do 3+ hour hilly hacks) as I didn't want the emotional roller-coaster of will she stay sound enough to compete.
However, she was happy in the field with her companions, not that she is sociable and is very happy to put Beryl in her place, but it was her normal demeanour rather than her being unhappy. If you want to try I'd see how she fairs with the ulcers being treated and see if that improves her mood, but if she's not happy in the field then that's a hard choice to make. Skylla had previously had ulcers (I thought it was a yard move but who knows really what caused them) and her behaviour before and after were miles apart.
If it helps, one of mine had 'something' in the front feet (could have been soft tissue, could have been the huge sidebone, could have been something else), plus PSD, with a some SI discomfort. It was a lot and like you it was a hard day, as she was only 9 and so talented, also not insured and although I would have funded anything the vet wrote her off.
I tried steroid injections and keeping her shod (she had always been barefoot until we tried studs for eventing and then the wheels fell off), but that only lasted a few weeks. I then stopped riding for 6 months and let her mooch in the field, she did come in overnight that winter. After 6 months she was to all intents and purposes sound, so we started hacking in straight lines. Three years later I think she's even sounder (I swear I could still feel something fractionally downhill though others couldn't see it), she feels fantastic now.
I did however make a choice that she will only be a hack (though a fairly hard core hack, she's done fun rides, will pop a log, do 3+ hour hilly hacks) as I didn't want the emotional roller-coaster of will she stay sound enough to compete.
However, she was happy in the field with her companions, not that she is sociable and is very happy to put Beryl in her place, but it was her normal demeanour rather than her being unhappy. If you want to try I'd see how she fairs with the ulcers being treated and see if that improves her mood, but if she's not happy in the field then that's a hard choice to make. Skylla had previously had ulcers (I thought it was a yard move but who knows really what caused them) and her behaviour before and after were miles apart.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
It's often difficult to work out if there is pain. Most horses separate themselves from the others and want to be alone. Mares can be antisocial due to hormone changes, so that's not a good guide. Have you tried Equioxx (Previcox if your vet would prescribe)? Good pain relief and supposed to be well tolerated and not as irritant to gut for longer term use.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry it's not very good news 
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Insurance have come back to ask if it’s related to the hock or neck claim, myself and the vet have said it is unrelated so fingers crossed.
This evening she was trotting across the field, floating.. and a lovely canter. Honestly didn’t look like a single thing was wrong
This evening she was trotting across the field, floating.. and a lovely canter. Honestly didn’t look like a single thing was wrong
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
I have a new farrier coming Monday to shoe her (for now, with everything going on don’t want to pull shoes off yet)
He has agreed a few changes to be made, and a LOT of foot to work with.
Could that be why she blocked to feet?
I say blocked positive, to me she felt no different on the front feet, back or suspensory blocks in fact she worse and more grumpy to ride. The vet said he thought she moved better.. but thought ulcers were the reason for the grumpiness which she is now having treatment for.
A friend today mentioned regumate because she use to be on it and my friend couldn’t believe what a different horse she looked like for the vet last week (in a bad way) I looked back through my diary, she was on regumate until June this year. She came off it the week before she had her neck medicated (the time I’ve said she suddenly went downhill)
She originally went on regumate because during her season she became very backwards, stuffy, didn’t want to work.
I’m going to call the vet in the morning and ask if we could scan her ovaries and maybe test hormone levels, if mares have ovary problems could it cause that much of a dramatic change to their behaviour?
Possibly clutching at straws, but want to check everything.
He has agreed a few changes to be made, and a LOT of foot to work with.
Could that be why she blocked to feet?
I say blocked positive, to me she felt no different on the front feet, back or suspensory blocks in fact she worse and more grumpy to ride. The vet said he thought she moved better.. but thought ulcers were the reason for the grumpiness which she is now having treatment for.
A friend today mentioned regumate because she use to be on it and my friend couldn’t believe what a different horse she looked like for the vet last week (in a bad way) I looked back through my diary, she was on regumate until June this year. She came off it the week before she had her neck medicated (the time I’ve said she suddenly went downhill)
She originally went on regumate because during her season she became very backwards, stuffy, didn’t want to work.
I’m going to call the vet in the morning and ask if we could scan her ovaries and maybe test hormone levels, if mares have ovary problems could it cause that much of a dramatic change to their behaviour?
Possibly clutching at straws, but want to check everything.
Last edited:
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Have you tested for Cushings? Entirely possible you are seeing laminitis. If it is Cushings related, the symptoms behave differently from grass laminitis. Not much in the way of symptoms, but a feeling that the handbrake is on. I lost a horse to Cushings around fifteen years ago when the testing wasn't routine. His only symptoms were lameness and pain.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
No, haven't tested for Cushings. I asked the vet about laminitis, no heat in feet and no pulse. The main symptom is the handbrake always being on, the vet can't see any lameness but started nerve blocking to see if it made a difference. I did mention PSSM2 but she is already on a PSSM2 diet (vit E, protein) and he didn't think it made sense.
Is testing for Cushings a blood test?
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Yes it is a blood test, and Liphook Hospital used to test samples for free, not sure if that is still the case. Have the blood taken early in the week, then it isn't sat in a post box all weekend,
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry it's not better news but this is so common, one apparent problem is actually a symptom of a movement pattern and shows symptoms elsewhere.
If you're happy to throw a load of time and attention at it it may be worth getting an opinion from a rehabber (Dan Wain Equestrian, Encompass Equine Solutions would be two possibles), perhaps in conjunction with a good bodyworker such as a vet osteo (Tom Beech, Rob Jackson etc) to see what the prognosis might be from their perspective, often with medication of joints etc (ideally just as a window of pain free opportunity to change the movement patterns).
There are no promises, but it's the holistic way to tackle it, along with checking out the hormonal side of things etc and I think this is likely to give better results than simply turning away. Yes, some horses do come back sounder, but many don't, and fundamentally, just as we do, need guiding to help them change the way they move.
If you're happy to throw a load of time and attention at it it may be worth getting an opinion from a rehabber (Dan Wain Equestrian, Encompass Equine Solutions would be two possibles), perhaps in conjunction with a good bodyworker such as a vet osteo (Tom Beech, Rob Jackson etc) to see what the prognosis might be from their perspective, often with medication of joints etc (ideally just as a window of pain free opportunity to change the movement patterns).
There are no promises, but it's the holistic way to tackle it, along with checking out the hormonal side of things etc and I think this is likely to give better results than simply turning away. Yes, some horses do come back sounder, but many don't, and fundamentally, just as we do, need guiding to help them change the way they move.
SEL
Well-Known Member
I think ovaries / seasons can be very painful for some mares. I was on livery with one who was vile off regumate and used to canter crooked.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Mmm. My dressage instructor has a mare she trained to Grand Prix which is unrideable off regumate.
If nothing comes of the MRI scan I’ll get her ovaries scanned.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Update as had the MRI scan yesterday, still waiting for the full report but they gave my vet a brief description.
No tendon or ligament damage (great!) but bone bruising and the small navicular changes we saw on x-ray are a bit more evident on MRI.
The vets plan is to come next week, scan her suspensories to find out where we are with those.. and scan her ovaries then make a plan going forward. More ulcer medication has turned up today, so she'll be on esomeprazole as well as the sucralfate. Vets thoughts are sometimes a low grade ulcers can highly affect some horses, my previous vet gave me 1 weeks medication last year after a grade 1/2 scope :| She has 30 days at the full dose and then it will be reduced.
I'm tempted to take her shoes off again and try her barefoot, she walked up the stony track to the field yesterday after her MRI with no soreness or footiness at all but she only had her fronts taken off that day.
It seems more difficult to find a farrier willing to trim, compared to shoe. There is a farrier that trims a lot of barefoot on my yard (the feet look good) but they all are very footy after a trim and it puts me off.
No tendon or ligament damage (great!) but bone bruising and the small navicular changes we saw on x-ray are a bit more evident on MRI.
The vets plan is to come next week, scan her suspensories to find out where we are with those.. and scan her ovaries then make a plan going forward. More ulcer medication has turned up today, so she'll be on esomeprazole as well as the sucralfate. Vets thoughts are sometimes a low grade ulcers can highly affect some horses, my previous vet gave me 1 weeks medication last year after a grade 1/2 scope :| She has 30 days at the full dose and then it will be reduced.
I'm tempted to take her shoes off again and try her barefoot, she walked up the stony track to the field yesterday after her MRI with no soreness or footiness at all but she only had her fronts taken off that day.
It seems more difficult to find a farrier willing to trim, compared to shoe. There is a farrier that trims a lot of barefoot on my yard (the feet look good) but they all are very footy after a trim and it puts me off.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Is there a reputable equine podiatrist in your area or a barefoot trimmer? If you wanted to give barefoot a go there are definite differences in how a farrier trims (usually, not all) compared to a trimmer. I'd be not happy at all if any of mine were sore after a trim, that means too much foot /sole is being taken off.
Last edited:
HufflyPuffly
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was going to suggest trying to find a great barefoot trimmer if the farriers locally are leaving them sore after a trim…
I did this for my old show pony as I just needed someone on my side with trying barefoot (very different issues to yours though). He worked wonders for her! I was sad when I moved and he couldn’t travel that far. I’m back with a farrier now who does seem to do a good job with my three barefoot girlies.
I did this for my old show pony as I just needed someone on my side with trying barefoot (very different issues to yours though). He worked wonders for her! I was sad when I moved and he couldn’t travel that far. I’m back with a farrier now who does seem to do a good job with my three barefoot girlies.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
There are only a couple who will come to my yard, but either are taking anymore clients on. There is another farrier on the yard tomorrow, I'm going to ask if he can take the hinds off and give her a basic trim until I find a permanent farrier/trimmer.
I just feel like I don't trust any farrier now..
On the plus side I'm sure she is walking better with the fronts off, but might be to soon to say.Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
You may just have to be very assertive with the farrier and ask him to bevel the hoof only. Do not take off any sole and do not slice off the frog. It's difficult, unless you can find someone who is sympathetic to a gradual transition, who allows the horse to grow the foot it needs. Good luck!
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
There are only a couple who will come to my yard, but either are taking anymore clients on. There is another farrier on the yard tomorrow, I'm going to ask if he can take the hinds off and give her a basic trim until I find a permanent farrier/trimmer.
I just feel like I don't trust any farrier now..
Another option is you could learn to do it yourself. It's daunting at first but then just becomes second nature! I trim all of mine now and just get my farrier to check the balance every once in a while. I love that I don't have to reply on anyone and can trim them my way.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is a option.. her feet are just SO long right now.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Had the report sent over, bilateral 'very faint' bone bruising on navicular bone and mild navicular. Low grade pathology and mild findings which have been found in non lame horse. No recommended treatment plan.
I'm not sure if to get a new farrier to put some front shoes on for now and try taking her barefoot once we've reached the bottom of this.
I'm not sure if to get a new farrier to put some front shoes on for now and try taking her barefoot once we've reached the bottom of this.
Highmileagecob
Well-Known Member
Be careful. If you are seeing mild navicular changes now, the hooves cannot grow out and correct themselves with shoes on - you are technically holding the hoof in a fixed position. Hope you can find a way forward.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
Thanks @Highmileagecob much appreciated.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I would take the shoes off now and just ask the farrier to give them a bit of a rasp for now as they will probably chip and split most do when the shoes are off.
My farrier trims mine he doesn't trim the frog or sole and I rasp and tidy mine up in between, I have started using my little electric sander on them it's quicker and easier on my back, it's quite easy to do just get a farrier to show you mine even gave me an old rasp.
I would then expect to let her have a fairly long rest in the field to let the feet heal and hopefully they will.
My farrier trims mine he doesn't trim the frog or sole and I rasp and tidy mine up in between, I have started using my little electric sander on them it's quicker and easier on my back, it's quite easy to do just get a farrier to show you mine even gave me an old rasp.
I would then expect to let her have a fairly long rest in the field to let the feet heal and hopefully they will.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
The lameness vet doesn’t want her to have rest, he has advised after suspensory scans next week to start some ground work if the scans don’t show anything. I think he wants to get to the bottom of it.
I guess it depends how she is barefoot.