Navicular and good feet

[CallMeKate]

Yes, well the vet thinks her right is worse (and that’s why she’s holding her head to the left and worse on the right rein)

She also grazes left foot forward ALL the time.

The grazing with the left foot forward is not a concern. Horses have ‘handedness’ just like humans (Dr Andrew Mclean) and will graze with a preferred foot forward often, and usually step forward with a preferred foot first.

 

[CallMeKate]

No, haven't tested for Cushings. I asked the vet about laminitis, no heat in feet and no pulse. The main symptom is the handbrake always being on, the vet can't see any lameness but started nerve blocking to see if it made a difference. I did mention PSSM2 but she is already on a PSSM2 diet (vit E, protein) and he didn't think it made sense.

Is testing for Cushings a blood test?

The handbrake being on feeling, ie not going forward could absolutely be a training issue. If (and this is an if, not a criticism of you) you are being encouraged to ride your horse in ‘a frame’ then you are potentially actually APPLYING the handbrake with rein/bit pressure and then confusing the horse by using leg….there are so many ‘coaches’ out there who have little understanding of how young horses need to be developed. Try lunging from a cavesson NO side reins and allowing her to feel her body, then start hacking out with really light contact allowing her to do what the heck she likes with her nose. Take those shoes off…it is an awful shoeing job btw as I guess you now realise. The neck situation is possibly part of the same ‘ride in a frame’ disease…of course I may be way off the mark never having seen you ride…but if you are attempting to ‘put her on the bit’ it would explain all the symptoms your horse is experiencing.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Cushings related laminitis does not present like the grass related laminitis. As with navicular changes, often the only signs are foot pain. Yes, it is a blood test, and needs to be taken early in the week so it isn't sat in a post box all weekend.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

The handbrake being on feeling, ie not going forward could absolutely be a training issue. If (and this is an if, not a criticism of you) you are being encouraged to ride your horse in ‘a frame’ then you are potentially actually APPLYING the handbrake with rein/bit pressure and then confusing the horse by using leg….there are so many ‘coaches’ out there who have little understanding of how young horses need to be developed. Try lunging from a cavesson NO side reins and allowing her to feel her body, then start hacking out with really light contact allowing her to do what the heck she likes with her nose. Take those shoes off…it is an awful shoeing job btw as I guess you now realise. The neck situation is possibly part of the same ‘ride in a frame’ disease…of course I may be way off the mark never having seen you ride…but if you are attempting to ‘put her on the bit’ it would explain all the symptoms your horse is experiencing.

No, she hasn't been encouraged to ride in a 'frame' until she advanced in her flatwork. When she did work in a frame it was in a snaffle and her own choice. She is not forward and extremely unhappy on the lunge with no training aids at all and became not forward even when hacking, she was no different with another rider on. She does not have 'ride in a frame disease'

Confused how you've assumed all this from a post asking for advice on navicular, her neck changes 2 (lameness) vets don't believe is anything to do with me.

 

[angel7]

How are things going HFilly, is she still on box rest?

 

[Peglo]

Confused how you've assumed all this from a post asking for advice on navicular, her neck changes 2 (lameness) vets don't believe is anything to do with me.

I’ve followed this thread from the start but hadn’t commented as had nothing useful to add (so sorry for all the problems you’ve had with her) and I have no idea where they got that from

 

[Hormonal Filly]

How are things going HFilly, is she still on box rest?

She is still on box rest, thanks for asking. It will be 4 weeks next week. She is landing flat and not toe first now.

She is having weekly indiba sessions and I'm doing daily core exercises and stretches. Not feeling very optimistic if I'm honest, but trying to be. One positive if shes now much better with other horses (just finished her 4 week ulcer treatment) and regularly grooms the gelding opposite.

 

[CallMeKate]

No, she hasn't been encouraged to ride in a 'frame' until she advanced in her flatwork. When she did work in a frame it was in a snaffle and her own choice. She is not forward and extremely unhappy on the lunge with no training aids at all and became not forward even when hacking, she was no different with another rider on. She does not have 'ride in a frame disease'

Confused how you've assumed all this from a post asking for advice on navicular, her neck changes 2 (lameness) vets don't believe is anything to do with me.

Not an 'assumption' but a suggestion that this might be the issue....why did I make this suggestion? (which you seem to have taken offence to... where ther was none intended at all) you said somewhere that the vet's did not find lameness...so, thinking outside the box, the lack of forward might in fact NOT be a veterinary issue, rather a training issue. And as an old lag who has has been around the block (BHSAI since 1985 in fact) there are a few common denominators that I have seen, over the years, with horses that are 'not forward'...and that is that 'the break is being applied at the same time as the accelerator' ie hauling on the mouth to shove the horse into a frame whilst booting them along with the leg...results in a horse that 'goes as if the handbrake is on' (your words). So...with horses very often people want to find an issue, where there is none, because that is how we are encouraged to think. And the suggestion that the issue may in fct be rider based, after the owner has spent thousands in the vet to no avail, often meets with open mouhts and denial...and taking offence is often part of the response. So I will leave you with that thought. Two thoughts actually...don;t take offence where none is intended, it just makes you look chippy. And sometimes, often, with horses, the issue is down to us humans and how we ride them not some mysterious health condition!

 

[CallMeKate]

The handbrake being on feeling, ie not going forward could absolutely be a training issue. If (and this is an if, not a criticism of you) you are being encouraged to ride your horse in ‘a frame’ then you are potentially actually APPLYING the handbrake with rein/bit pressure and then confusing the horse by using leg….there are so many ‘coaches’ out there who have little understanding of how young horses need to be developed. Try lunging from a cavesson NO side reins and allowing her to feel her body, then start hacking out with really light contact allowing her to do what the heck she likes with her nose. Take those shoes off…it is an awful shoeing job btw as I guess you now realise. The neck situation is possibly part of the same ‘ride in a frame’ disease…of course I may be way off the mark never having seen you ride…but if you are attempting to ‘put her on the bit’ it would explain all the symptoms your horse is experiencing.

'the vet can't see any lameness' so in fact it MIGHT not be a lameness issue!!

 

[ester]

This horse has had a lot of diagnostics and several pathologies that will cause lameness.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Not an 'assumption' but a suggestion that this might be the issue....why did I make this suggestion? (which you seem to have taken offence to... where ther was none intended at all) you said somewhere that the vet's did not find lameness...so, thinking outside the box, the lack of forward might in fact NOT be a veterinary issue, rather a training issue. And as an old lag who has has been around the block (BHSAI since 1985 in fact) there are a few common denominators that I have seen, over the years, with horses that are 'not forward'...and that is that 'the break is being applied at the same time as the accelerator' ie hauling on the mouth to shove the horse into a frame whilst booting them along with the leg...results in a horse that 'goes as if the handbrake is on' (your words). So...with horses very often people want to find an issue, where there is none, because that is how we are encouraged to think. And the suggestion that the issue may in fct be rider based, after the owner has spent thousands in the vet to no avail, often meets with open mouhts and denial...and taking offence is often part of the response. So I will leave you with that thought. Two thoughts actually...don;t take offence where none is intended, it just makes you look chippy. And sometimes, often, with horses, the issue is down to us humans and how we ride them not some mysterious health condition!

Bonnifer, your comment is rude and not needed. I’m not in a great place as it is. You have no knowledge of my riding or experience.

The horse has been the same on the lunge in a headcollar. It is not a rider or schooling issue, I know my horse. She has never been forced into an outline ‘whilst booting them along with the leg’.

She did not use to be like this. She isn’t ‘lame’ but suspensory issues don’t always make them lame, yet can still cause pain. She is probably ‘riding with the handbrake on’ because she is in pain. She has had intensive investigations, she has issues in 3 legs as well as her neck. There is no ‘mysterious health condition’ I know what they are.

I don’t need to explain myself and not sure why I have, please do not comment any further.

 

[nutjob]

She did not use to be like this. She isn’t ‘lame’ but suspensory issues don’t always make them lame, yet can still cause pain. She is probably ‘riding with the handbrake on’ because she is in pain. She has had intensive investigations, she has issues in 3 legs as well as her neck. There is no ‘mysterious health condition’ I know what they are.

You're right, and there are plenty of things that can go wrong with a horse that don't produce a classical lameness that's easy to spot. PSD is insidious because it comes on gradually. Mine started with behavioural issues and people who saw him irl thought that either he was going through a 5yo phase and would grow out of it or it was something to do with my riding that made him sharp, spooky and start bucking.

I'm sure most people who go down a veterinary route to find an issue with their horse do so because there actually is one, not because they've mistakenly been booting them and hauling in the mouth . My wobbler appeared sound to the first vet who examined him and my horse which had an SI injury was not lame although both myself and my vet could see he was moving differently; I'd seen him have a fall otherwise this would have been more difficult to diagnose. It can just need more extensive investigations to get to the bottom of some things.

On your other post I see you are thinking of turning your horse away. This is what I did with mine, he became noticeably worse so the decision became easier and I had time to come to terms with it and he was pts after about 5 months of retirement. That's not to say that the same will happen to yours but if you keep an eye on her you'll know if she is better / worse / same, I hope it works out.