Never thought I’d be writing this :(

[Amirah]

Keira, you hacked him out alone, past feral ponies and fast cars and hornets. You were not ineffective at all, don't do yourself down. There are plenty of horses that won't hack out alone.

 

[Amirah]

Indie and Paddy, I'm guessing Keira doesn't want to say anything even remotely negative about her YO on a public forum, the horse world is very small.

 

[Wishfilly]

The horse has hives and has been fed on Alfalfa - which can blow plenty of horses minds. This has happened all AFTER the horse had been in the UK for a few weeks. I have said in previous posts that the horse need a month in the field on nothing but grass with a bit of hay if required THEN reassessed. I just cant understand why this approach is so difficult to understand or implement? If another pro rides it and it still rears then you can go own the Vet route if required. One of my horse is a sweet and kind chap but he completely lost his shit when i fed Calm & Condition, he literally could not contain himself. So i took him off it, gave it a few days and guess what? I had my lovely horse back.

Yes the OP may never want to ride it again but if the horse comes good it can be resold.

I'm sorry but the fact that the OP wont acknowledge the posts asking about how the pro rode the horse only makes me think that something went wrong, now OP has a horse that has been labelled dangerous. And none of it's really her fault.

The OP has now acknowledged your post, just in case you missed it.

I do think your suggestions are reasonable, if the OP had had the horse for longer, but given the OP has only had him for a short time, and there is (or was) the possibility of a refund from the seller on the table, then it's not as easy a decision as you're making out. But that's just my opinion.

I agree that if the OP decides to keep him then your suggestions about taking him off his feed and trying to get to the bottom of the hives are a good first step.

"If another pro rides it and it still rears then you can go own the Vet route if required"- this, however, I have a real problem with, especially if OP's insurance will pay out for some investigation first. I think there are a lot of signs that something isn't right with this horse, and putting another rider on to essentially figure out if the horse is in pain isn't fair on the horse. I also think it's a bit unfair on the pro, although obviously if you disclose the horse's history and they are still happy to get on, then that is on them.

I do agree that if she decides to keep the horse there are options and routes open to her, but I don't think there's any basis for assuming OP's YO has caused the problem.

 

[Amirah]

Some of us clearly have "male pro" baggage, lol.

 

[Mikas-mom]

So now it appears that some People think the OP should keep the horse and throw bucketloads of money at it in the hope that something will show up giving reason for the recent behaviour, which can then (hopefully) be ‘fixed’ by throwing even more money at the horse by getting another ‘Pro’ to do some work with the horse?
or am I mistaken?

as ycbm said previously, this horse is a money pit, anyone with a bit of experience can see that. And whilst a lot of us would throw money at him in the hopes that he can be of some use at some point in the future, I think a lot of you are forgetting that Keira ISN’T an experienced owner, and she bought a horse that both her and her daughter can enjoy and ride.
Quite clearly this is not Princ, not at the present time at least. And Keira has admitted that she won’t feel comfortable getting back on him again after his previous rearing, can’t say I blame her tbh.

horses are meant to be fun. Yes they do cause quite a bit of stress and worry every now and again, but this is well beyond that and is now causing problems in Keira’s personal life ?

if she can get a refund and return the horse, surely that’s the best course of action for her and her family

 

[Firefly9410]

Indie1282 the problem is if he rears over backwards and kills someone it is no good saying oh ok better get the vet after all. It is too late by then. He has already teetered on the brink of going over backwards. Regardless of the reason for it I would never get on him again and advise nobody else to either. I someone wants to have vet investigation thinks that they found and treated the problem then wants to try again that is a slightly different situation and less risky in terms of safety.

 

[indie1282]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I appreciate all your time reading and responding - I really do.

In answer to the question about the pro, he was certainly more stern/firm than myself but I was way too soft and ineffective (especially at first, although I gained a lot of confidence after a few weeks.) He was never ever rough though. Never used a switch. Just a stern tone of voice when Prince was napping.
In terms of getting a second opinion from another pro (and I’m so grateful to the people who have kindly sent details of people they recommend) I feel that I would rather get a full medical work up done FIRST so that if there is a problem medically it can be addressed as soon as possible. If he were to get the all clear medically, I would then want to visit another pro for behavioural advice. What I do know medically so far is that his teeth are good, his hooves are good, his heart and eyes are good, the vet did flexion tests with his legs and watched him trot from behind. He is not cold backed. So that leaves me left to explore the possibility of harder to spot issues (needing scans/xrays etc) such as ulcers, spinal problems etc..

Am I going to do this?? Guys, I just don’t know. I honestly am lost. I will however make my mind up very very soon, I can’t keep going around in circles - it’s no good for me or Prince.

What I can say is that I value everyone’s input very much - many of you have spent such a long time reading and replying. I’m sorry if I haven’t replied to you personally with my thanks yet.

I will let everyone know the outcome of this as abs when things happen and new things are discovered. I’m still awaiting a call from the vet with the second microchip number.

Thanks again to everyone who has stuck around to lend their advice and support x

Thats the good news about your pro. Its another thing to tick off, I know it probably seems like a lot but all these little things really help to paint a picture so thank you for replying ?

After reading your posts about you husband wanting the money back I think your next step is to stand back and discuss with him where you go from here. I can see where he is coming from. He's 2.5k out of pocket, you and your girls are understandably upset and he sees the horse as being the cause of all this - to him sending the horse back and getting a refund is the way to solve the problem and make you all happy.

If you do go down the dealer refund route be prepared for it to drag on for months...

As a compromise with your OH, can you put Prince in a cheaper grass livery for now? If your full livery is £600 per month and say grass is £100 in 5 months you will have 'saved' 2.5k so he will get his money back? Then, if you want to you can look at getting the horse a vet work up and take it from there?

 

[Amirah]

We weren't all going to agree, but all have an opinion. We have collectively dug into our experiences and come up with various memories of things that sent our horses temporarily crackers, ranging from egotistical males to the wrong food. Some think return, some think try to find the cause and some think that she's got little chance of a refund.

None of us know how much spare cash, if any, OP has got, her emotions towards Prince or how she would feel if she never saw him again.

She's even had an incredibly generous offer of free bed and board for him on here.

It's easy to have principles when you can afford them like some of us can, it wouldn't matter to me if one of mine was completely useless as they're at home, and I'm not that fussed about riding anyway unless my daughter drags me out (I am very fair weather, like the Queen ☺).

The important thing is that whatever she decides none of us judge her.

 

[Keira 8888]

We weren't all going to agree, but all have an opinion. We have collectively dug into our experiences and come up with various memories of things that sent our horses temporarily crackers, ranging from egotistical males to the wrong food. Some think return, some think try to find the cause and some think that she's got little chance of a refund.

None of us know how much spare cash, if any, OP has got, her emotions towards Prince or how she would feel if she never saw him again.

She's even had an incredibly generous offer of free bed and board for him on here.

It's easy to have principles when you can afford them like some of us can, it wouldn't matter to me if one of mine was completely useless as they're at home, and I'm not that fussed about riding anyway unless my daughter drags me out (I am very fair weather, like the Queen ☺).

The important thing is that whatever she decides none of us judge her.[/QUOTE

 

[Keira 8888]

You know what, I wasn’t going to mention this to you guys but I’ve had a gin and tonic and feeling very vulnerable and emotional right now.

Last year (having been fit as a flea for my whole life) everything came crashing down and I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Very long story (and you know how good I am by now at very long stories...!)

I was 39 years old. My whole world came tumbling down. And I thought - what do I really want to do right now. And as a horse FANATIC for my entire the life, but never with the funds to realise my dreams, I started to save money. All I wanted was to realise my lifelong dream and also make my daughters dream come true. Before I potentially wouldn’t be mobile enough to do so in the next few years. The time is clocking for me and I am desperate to ride with my daughter in the forest - perhaps it is this sappy dream that led me to ignore all the “sensible” voices in my head when I bought Prince unseen.

But do you know what - this past month with Prince has been incredible. He IS the horse if my dreams. I just wish I could have had a smoother ride with it all. Sorry to be overly emotional but it’s a funny thing when you realise that you might not have all the time you thought to have a healthy body and mind x

 

[Amirah]

I am so sorry to hear that you're not well Keira. I hope you are feeling a bit calmer now about this debacle (I would suggest a second gin). Take care sweetie

 

[paddy555]

So now it appears that some People think the OP should keep the horse and throw bucketloads of money at it in the hope that something will show up giving reason for the recent behaviour, which can then (hopefully) be ‘fixed’ by throwing even more money at the horse by getting another ‘Pro’ to do some work with the horse?
or am I mistaken?

as ycbm said previously, this horse is a money pit, anyone with a bit of experience can see that. And whilst a lot of us would throw money at him in the hopes that he can be of some use at some point in the future, I think a lot of you are forgetting that Keira ISN’T an experienced owner, and she bought a horse that both her and her daughter can enjoy and ride.
Quite clearly this is not Princ, not at the present time at least. And Keira has admitted that she won’t feel comfortable getting back on him again after his previous rearing, can’t say I blame her tbh.

horses are meant to be fun. Yes they do cause quite a bit of stress and worry every now and again, but this is well beyond that and is now causing problems in Keira’s personal life ?

if she can get a refund and return the horse, surely that’s the best course of action for her and her family

I certainly don't think she should throw bucket loads of money at Prince. I doubt the insurance is going to pay anyway. If they will that will be great and may provide an answer and no point in not going down that road.
However I would just try and remove some of the doubts before calling it a day. Those would be his history, alfalfa/too much feed, hives and the rider. I would also get someone else to have a look at him to see if they can see anything helpful.
The reason is that something niggles me about this story. This has gone from a horse who was "very easy, gentle and respectful to ride" her words to this in the space of only a couple of weeks. He was hacking out amongst semi feral ponies and cars calmly. Her daughter was riding him in the field.

If he is a confirmed rearer why didn't he just rear then?

If he had reared, napped and misbehaved from the beginning then no problem, something was badly wrong before he even came.

Yes it would be better to send him back but I didn't think K wanted to and more to the point I am not sure getting a refund is going to be as easy as some people think. Maybe evidence will come back from the 2nd microchip that will make him change his mind. If not and he doesn't co-operate then it is going to be a time consuming and costly process and in the meantime she is still going to have Prince.

 

[Amirah]

If I wasn't so far away you and your daughter could come and ride mine, but there might be someone here that's nearer that could offer the same

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

No worries Keira - I'm just playing it forward. There are a lot of really experienced and knowledgable people on this forum and I'm pretty sure that many of us have found ourselves in a bit of a shit situation with a horse when you doubt your own judgement and reach out for advice which is why this forum exists. If you decide to do any investigations can I recommend you contact Endels and ask for a call back from Hani. She is an extremely experienced and pragmatic equine vet and will give you sound advice on what, if any, further investigations she feels would benefit you and Prince given your circumstances. I wish you all the luck in resolving your dilema and my offer still stands when your pre-paid livery ends.Just as a by-the-way my current job mainly involves taking non-payers to the small claims court and then instructing sherifs to reclaim unpaid debts so if you need any advice on this let me know. Its more simple then you would think although possibly the Irish element might be more complex. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

 

[southerncomfort]

Keira

I haven't responded to this thread so far simply because I don't know what advice to give. But having just read your last post, I just want to say that whatever you decide to do, you won't get any judgement from me nor I suspect from anyone else here.

You need to take care of yourself first and foremost.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Actually, riding with MS is a good idea with the right horse. The main reason that my good friend is still able to walk (she has MS) is because she rides almost everyday. So I think riding would be a great physical and mental therapy for you.

I've been through some shit and I totally get waiting to seize the moment while you can. Or trying to treat yourself a bit because life is short. I've also been screwed over by dishonest sketchy people. It sucks. You will be able to move past this. It's a bump in the road.

 

[Winters100]

So sorry Keira - really. x

 

[Keira 8888]

No worries Keira - I'm just playing it forward. There are a lot of really experienced and knowledgable people on this forum and I'm pretty sure that many of us have found ourselves in a bit of a shit situation with a horse when you doubt your own judgement and reach out for advice which is why this forum exists. If you decide to do any investigations can I recommend you contact Endels and ask for a call back from Hani. She is an extremely experienced and pragmatic equine vet and will give you sound advice on what, if any, further investigations she feels would benefit you and Prince given your circumstances. I wish you all the luck in resolving your dilema and my offer still stands when your pre-paid livery ends.Just as a by-the-way my current job mainly involves taking non-payers to the small claims court and then instructing sherifs to reclaim unpaid debts so if you need any advice on this let me know. Its more simple then you would think although possibly the Irish element might be more complex. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do.

I can’t actually find the words to thank you for your incredible offer and kindness. This means more to me then I could express x

 

[ycbm]

something niggles me about this story. This has gone from a horse who was "very easy, gentle and respectful to ride" her words to this in the space of only a couple of weeks. He was hacking out amongst semi feral ponies and cars calmly. Her daughter was riding him in the field.

If he is a confirmed rearer why didn't he just rear then?

If he had reared, napped and misbehaved from the beginning then no problem, something was badly wrong before he even came.

The timing is bang on for a bute loading wearing off.

.

 

[Keira 8888]

Actually, riding with MS is a good idea with the right horse. The main reason that my good friend is still able to walk (she has MS) is because she rides almost everyday. So I think riding would be a great physical and mental therapy for you.

I've been through some shit and I totally get waiting to seize the moment while you can. Or trying to treat yourself a bit because life is short. I've also been screwed over by dishonest sketchy people. It sucks. You will be able to move past this. It's a bump in the road.

Oh my goodness!!!!!! This is so amazing to hear!!!! I can’t tell you how excited this makes me feel! Thank you for telling me this xx

 

[Keira 8888]

If I wasn't so far away you and your daughter could come and ride mine, but there might be someone here that's nearer that could offer the same

?

 

[Keira 8888]

So sorry Keira - really. x

Thank you ? xx

 

[Goldenstar]

Op it’s a sad story and of course giving opinions on a horse you have not seen is an very imperfect thing .
But my advice is unless you have loads of money don’t spend it on vets for this poor horse .
You could spend thousands on diagnostics alone
Get a vet to advise you and try some pain relief but don’t ride him .
If you can retire him and let him have a happy time perhaps with some drugs to keep him more comfy I applaud you .
If it’s not possible then a well planned end is not the worse thing that happened to an older TB with serious issues .
Don’t risk serious injury trying to ride him .
You need a hug so have a cyber hug from me, having a horse is not supposed to be like this but when it is you need a clear head and a strong disposition.

 

[Keira 8888]

Keira

I haven't responded to this thread so far simply because I don't know what advice to give. But having just read your last post, I just want to say that whatever you decide to do, you won't get any judgement from me nor I suspect from anyone else here.

You need to take care of yourself first and foremost.

Thank you xx

 

[misst]

Keira what a sh1t time you have had and are having. I can't help and can't offer anything except a virtual hug but keep on keeping on. So far you have handled this so well. I really hope you can find somewhere safe for Prince, make friends with your husband again (horses are not always helpful in a marriage but they also can bring out the surprising best in a husband too when the chips are down) and find the horse you need for your dauther and yourself.x

 

[Frumpoon]

The timing is bang on for a bute loading wearing off.

.

Is it really that long? A few weeks?? Every day is a school day

 

[paddy555]

The timing is bang on for a bute loading wearing off.

.

fair point he may have been buted and I wondered about that but I have used a lot of bute over the years (a lot of older horses) and never managed to go for anything like that long without topping it up. Perhaps something else was used. If he had been mine I would have put him straight onto a bute trial at the first sign of pain reluctance to try and establish if he had. It would sadly be too late to try that now.

I don't doubt he came with problems I am just not sure what problem. I did think when K first posted about tying him up and saying he was a 16 yo had hunted and had had a hard life thinking this might not have been a good idea and wondering if the next post was going to be the horse was so stiff, unsound behind etc etc and he was going to need treatment.

 

[Goldenstar]

He may have been out of work that could account for the onset of issues .

 

[Gingerwitch]

fair point he may have been buted and I wondered about that but I have used a lot of bute over the years (a lot of older horses) and never managed to go for anything like that long without topping it up. Perhaps something else was used. If he had been mine I would have put him straight onto a bute trial at the first sign of pain reluctance to try and establish if he had. It would sadly be too late to try that now.

I don't doubt he came with problems I am just not sure what problem. I did think when K first posted about tying him up and saying he was a 16 yo had hunted and had had a hard life thinking this might not have been a good idea and wondering if the next post was going to be the horse was so stiff, unsound behind etc etc and he was going to need treatment.

I once had a horse who " tied up" or appeared to. Turned out he had had a rotational fall at some point in his life and had horrific arthritic changes in his neck/shoulder this led to a trapping of nerves that created a huge dangerous reaction. He was only 11 but I sadly lost him as he was too dangerous, he was in such pain he was not even able to be a field ornament.

 

[Keira 8888]

It definitely sounds like a large gin and tonic kinda day! I can't remember if this has already been asked, but are you a BHS member? It might be worth having a chat with their legal team if you are (or joining as a member if not) just so you know where you stand from a legal perspective, especially if your husband is going to push for Prince to be returned.

I will def look into this! Sounds very sensible xx