Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
Thank you darling . YES!! You are right, I did do this!! And it was such a great day, best memories xx
Never thought I’d be writing this :(
- Thread starter Keira 8888
- Start date
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much xx
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
Haha! Bloody men!!
J&S
Well-Known Member
Keira, if you do send Prince back and therefore end up with out a horse do get in touch with your local RDA (Riding for the Disabled) group. I am a coach and have had several riders with MS. You would be welcomed and perhaps the kind horses the groups use would give you back some confidence in yourself and your riding. I am sure they would be able to let your daughter ride too. Some times these horses/ponies are moved on to private homes and you might be able to take advantage of this.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I used to be near you and happily used both Malcolm and Alex.
If it were me and the refund were guaranteed (but it doesn't seem to be that anymore) he'd be going back.
If it were me and the refund were guaranteed (but it doesn't seem to be that anymore) he'd be going back.
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
Hmm this is interesting. He was very underweight when he arrived x
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
What a great idea - thank you. I had no idea such a group existed. Will go check it out now. Thank you xx
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
Do you know what - what you said here means everything to me. Thank you xx
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I failed in where malcolm and alex came from (stable close vets!) lol not a good day.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
OP....fwiw if I had a pound for every time on this forum I've been told I'm a dickhead for some ridiculous thing I've done, I'd be able to afford a yard full of super horses ???? 90% of the time it's a well deserved assessment of my ability to make "sensible " choices ??
Given your diagnosis and the stress you must be under I can totally get why you have ploughed in head first. I lost my 6 year old daughter 5 years ago and I have a colourful variety of health issues myself. I dither frequently between being sensible and throwing all caution to the wind while muttering about life being too short.
BUT you do have to take a little breather every now and again to be sensible and realistic (borrrriiinnnnggggggggg I know). I admire your commitment to doing right by Prince but I think sending him back and getting a refund is the best thing. Stress will not help with the MS, and a strain on your marriage won't be good for you either. You will have learned alot from this and hopefully won't make the same mistake again (unless you are special kind of dumb.....like me ??).
Given your diagnosis and the stress you must be under I can totally get why you have ploughed in head first. I lost my 6 year old daughter 5 years ago and I have a colourful variety of health issues myself. I dither frequently between being sensible and throwing all caution to the wind while muttering about life being too short.
BUT you do have to take a little breather every now and again to be sensible and realistic (borrrriiinnnnggggggggg I know). I admire your commitment to doing right by Prince but I think sending him back and getting a refund is the best thing. Stress will not help with the MS, and a strain on your marriage won't be good for you either. You will have learned alot from this and hopefully won't make the same mistake again (unless you are special kind of dumb.....like me ??).
Amirah
Well-Known Member
I'm so very very sorry that you lost your little girl, that has to be the most utterly unbearable pain. I think you are very brave. Big hugs to you and Keira x
fankino04
Well-Known Member
I know there has been a post on here before about Sophie Gregory (aka the kiss and cuddles lady), but she takes horses like this under her "roos legacy" program, seems really sympathetic etc so might be worth getting in touch with her to see if she has space.
fankino04
Well-Known Member
If you go down the cheap grass livery route he can be a companion for mine for £80 per month. I'm sorry your husband is adding to the stress by the way x
Keira 8888
Well-Known Member
I am so sorry to hear you lost your little girl - how unbelievably awful. My heart goes out to you. I can’t imagine what you have been through. Thanks so much for your advice and lovely reply x
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Late to thread and it's pretty much all been said. But to just put my tuppence worth in:
1) The dealer sounds like he is dodgy as and I think he has offloaded a problem onto an inexeperienced owner.
2) I feel for the horse but dealers like that rely on people caring about the horses they buy so they choose to keep them instead of sending them back to a grim fate.
3) So their profits come from people keeping injured/unsuitable horses instead osf sending them back and demanding refunds.
4) If it is not Prince who is condemned to an uncertain future it will be other horses. Lots of others horses because dodgy dealing PAYS!
5) Given that, I would send back and pursue a refund through the courts if necessary. I would not want to fund this way of horse dealing.
But I also get that emotions get in the way so that is hard to do in practice. And I failed to follow my own advice when I bought my daughter's pony who was never right and was PTS after 15 months of cost and heartache. Which is why dealers work like this. Because it works for them.
Sorry you are in this awful position. I hope you are able to feel comfortable with whatever you decide and it works out for you.
1) The dealer sounds like he is dodgy as and I think he has offloaded a problem onto an inexeperienced owner.
2) I feel for the horse but dealers like that rely on people caring about the horses they buy so they choose to keep them instead of sending them back to a grim fate.
3) So their profits come from people keeping injured/unsuitable horses instead osf sending them back and demanding refunds.
4) If it is not Prince who is condemned to an uncertain future it will be other horses. Lots of others horses because dodgy dealing PAYS!
5) Given that, I would send back and pursue a refund through the courts if necessary. I would not want to fund this way of horse dealing.
But I also get that emotions get in the way so that is hard to do in practice. And I failed to follow my own advice when I bought my daughter's pony who was never right and was PTS after 15 months of cost and heartache. Which is why dealers work like this. Because it works for them.
Sorry you are in this awful position. I hope you are able to feel comfortable with whatever you decide and it works out for you.
Feral
Active Member
Hi Keira,
I have just sat and read this whole thread and really feel for you. I myself blew 2.5k on a young horse last year who is now not rideable (not through behavioural issues but medical problems which will hopefully come right!) - I am an experienced horse owner and have been so unlucky with my mare. These things happen so please do not beat yourself up about it!
For me, I would send your boy to the vets and start with a back X-ray (I got all four feet x-rayed and my mares back for £250!) a fairly inexpensive place to start and would tell you right away if kissing spine is the issue along with any arthritic problems.
I would also ring the vet who has implanted the second microchip, on a 16 year old horse they should have checked for an original microchip so this in itself would be very bad for the vet who has issued this second passport and possibly illegal?
Thirdly I would use the first microchip number to find out as much as I could about the horse, is there a racing/throughbred database you could check it on/ring them or a microchipping database which might bring up old owners that you could contact? (contact may have to go via the microchip company)
Lastly, after doing all of this I would then set up a claim against the seller. Especially if you find anything untoward with the microchip or vet investigation.
Horrible situation to be in but i had the choice with my mare of cutting my losses and having her investigated, selling her as a brood mare or god forbid putting her to sleep at 4 years old- I have decided to try all I can.
(she is young and not spoilt in anyway so worth it for me, although for the extra expense I am hoping she will be more than worth it when we come out of the other end and that I will have many enjoyable years with her)
xxx
I have just sat and read this whole thread and really feel for you. I myself blew 2.5k on a young horse last year who is now not rideable (not through behavioural issues but medical problems which will hopefully come right!) - I am an experienced horse owner and have been so unlucky with my mare. These things happen so please do not beat yourself up about it!
For me, I would send your boy to the vets and start with a back X-ray (I got all four feet x-rayed and my mares back for £250!) a fairly inexpensive place to start and would tell you right away if kissing spine is the issue along with any arthritic problems.
I would also ring the vet who has implanted the second microchip, on a 16 year old horse they should have checked for an original microchip so this in itself would be very bad for the vet who has issued this second passport and possibly illegal?
Thirdly I would use the first microchip number to find out as much as I could about the horse, is there a racing/throughbred database you could check it on/ring them or a microchipping database which might bring up old owners that you could contact? (contact may have to go via the microchip company)
Lastly, after doing all of this I would then set up a claim against the seller. Especially if you find anything untoward with the microchip or vet investigation.
Horrible situation to be in but i had the choice with my mare of cutting my losses and having her investigated, selling her as a brood mare or god forbid putting her to sleep at 4 years old- I have decided to try all I can.
(she is young and not spoilt in anyway so worth it for me, although for the extra expense I am hoping she will be more than worth it when we come out of the other end and that I will have many enjoyable years with her)
xxx
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
Do whatever's right for you and mitigate where possible stress for the horse without sacrificing your safety or emotional well being.
Your options are send the horse back, have it put to sleep, or get diagnostics done. FWIW, diagnostics are expensive as hell (unless you're made of money) when you're throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. A set of back X rays will cost you about £400, more if the horse needs sedating for it. KS surgery is about £2500 without hospital livery cost or adding in complications or rehab costs. Then you have about a 50% it will be successful. You'll also need to know how to work the horse in a way that will build up his back and neck correctly.
Scanning the suspensories is about £300. Ulcer scoping another couple of hundred, the treatment for that same again, if it works and you don't have to try a course of something different.
Once the horse is dead (sorry to be blunt) he'll never be stressed or in pain again, if that's what's causing his rearing. If you send him back it's 99% certain the dealer will sell him again for the same price that you bought him for to recoup their costs.
I'm all for 'teaching the dealer a lesson' and sending the horse back, but if it's at the expense of your own sanity then it's not worth it.
If it were me I'd chalk this up as experience and give him to your cousin as that's what would give me most peace of mind taking into account all the options available. You'll lose money, but that's inevitable with horses.
Your options are send the horse back, have it put to sleep, or get diagnostics done. FWIW, diagnostics are expensive as hell (unless you're made of money) when you're throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. A set of back X rays will cost you about £400, more if the horse needs sedating for it. KS surgery is about £2500 without hospital livery cost or adding in complications or rehab costs. Then you have about a 50% it will be successful. You'll also need to know how to work the horse in a way that will build up his back and neck correctly.
Scanning the suspensories is about £300. Ulcer scoping another couple of hundred, the treatment for that same again, if it works and you don't have to try a course of something different.
Once the horse is dead (sorry to be blunt) he'll never be stressed or in pain again, if that's what's causing his rearing. If you send him back it's 99% certain the dealer will sell him again for the same price that you bought him for to recoup their costs.
I'm all for 'teaching the dealer a lesson' and sending the horse back, but if it's at the expense of your own sanity then it's not worth it.
If it were me I'd chalk this up as experience and give him to your cousin as that's what would give me most peace of mind taking into account all the options available. You'll lose money, but that's inevitable with horses.
EASTIE17
Active Member
Hi, not to be negative, but as someone living in Ireland who has two daughters riding at a high level on ponies and do some breeding and buying and selling of Connemaras, unfortunately I believe there isnt a hope of you getting your money back. It would be difficult enough if you were living here but unless you were dealing with a very well known dealership, who frankly would only be dealing with animals worth 10K plus, who were worried about an international reputation would you have a chance. And those type of dealers I dare say wouldn't have allowed this to happen in the first place.
Occasionally someone in Ireland will take an animal back from a purchaser in Ireland, if the new rider feels its not suitable after a couple of weeks but they do that usually just on the basis of being nice. Once the animal gets to your yard/livery etc. most sellers, even private ones revert to "buyer beware" and on horses and ponies at this price range use the "was fine at my yard" "never did that before" defence. Unless you had a blood test held independently by a vet for 6 months its very difficult, and that isnt always foolproof either.
I say that not to put the boot in but I think you are better off removing that as an option - that then I thinks makes your choices easier.
For example, here is a case that was in the Irish courts, it took 7 years and the plantiff is a very wealthy man who is Irish and has lots of good connections. It also was blatant fraud (bought 1 pony, got sent a different one that was inferior) so a bit more clearcut than your case, he also had deep pockets, lots of connections and was happy to wait 7 years for justice. Most regular people wouldn't have the money, patience or perseverance to pursue this.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...n-over-sale-of-wrong-pony-to-family-1.3846001
Occasionally someone in Ireland will take an animal back from a purchaser in Ireland, if the new rider feels its not suitable after a couple of weeks but they do that usually just on the basis of being nice. Once the animal gets to your yard/livery etc. most sellers, even private ones revert to "buyer beware" and on horses and ponies at this price range use the "was fine at my yard" "never did that before" defence. Unless you had a blood test held independently by a vet for 6 months its very difficult, and that isnt always foolproof either.
I say that not to put the boot in but I think you are better off removing that as an option - that then I thinks makes your choices easier.
For example, here is a case that was in the Irish courts, it took 7 years and the plantiff is a very wealthy man who is Irish and has lots of good connections. It also was blatant fraud (bought 1 pony, got sent a different one that was inferior) so a bit more clearcut than your case, he also had deep pockets, lots of connections and was happy to wait 7 years for justice. Most regular people wouldn't have the money, patience or perseverance to pursue this.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cri...n-over-sale-of-wrong-pony-to-family-1.3846001
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Why does everyone scope for ulcers ? Just treat the animal with gastroguard in the first place, it's pretty obvious if it's the right treatment or not quite soon. Saves on the transport to the vets twice, and the scoping twice and is slot kinder to the animal too.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
because insurance won't pay without a scope.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
And gastrogard costs more than a scope so is a colossal waste of money if you don't need it.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
And in addition to what Ester and AE have said, ulcers don’t always respond to just one treatment - sometimes multiple treatments of a different medication is required. So if you don’t know the horse has them for sure by scoping you could easily assume it doesn’t have them if the first line of action doesn’t work.
HorsesRule2009
Well-Known Member
This is Sophie Seymour not Gregory.
She has a Facebook page Sophie Seymour Equestrian.
fankino04
Well-Known Member
Oops!
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
That's why I self insure, I just do not get the logic if the animal has ulcers you starve I for x hours, treat it then starve again. Isn't the whole point of ulcer treatment keeping the horse with a steady input if feed and a scoop of chaff prior to riding nowadays to stop acid splash ? We really are a strange industry. As the majority of horses apparently have low grade ulcers the insurance company would be saving a huge amount by just paying for the treatment rather than the diagnostics then treatment.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
And it's usually because the vets give a gastroguard equivalent as the first off for slightly less, this does not work and you end up with a course of gastroguard anyways. Perhaps you all have better vets than our local practice as I have never known a horse not have ulcers... Once the ulcers have been treated they then move in on to the real underlying issue ..... Yearh right oh.... Even the horse that scoped clear had ulcers further back than the scope showed allegedly.
be positive
Well-Known Member
I have only ever had one scoped, he showed several classic signs but nothing was found so we looked elsewhere and found other issues which were unexpected, even the vet was surprised, that was treated and all the ulcer symptoms went, I did tweak his management and diet slightly at the same time but if he had just had a course of GG we may not have found the real issue for months.
I did have another treated with GG without scoping but he had just returned from being 'treated' in hospital where he received a very nasty mouth injury which made eating and drinking difficult, he was stressed, on drugs and being box rested so when he started cribbing I called my vet and he was put onto GG immediately, his cribbing stopped, he took weeks before he could drink but was able to eat fairly normally and has shown no signs of ulcers since.
tristar
Well-Known Member
to be honest , i saw your pic of prince somewhere last week, can`t find it now, but from what i remember, i would not be riding a horse in that state, try to think of it like this , he is thin, he has no muscle, and he has been carted from pillar to post recently, shipped across seas etc.
if he came here i would have given him time to settle, done lots of handling and probably walked him out in hand to get to know him, when he has a little weight on him i would have done loose lunging and lunging in very large squares, and some small pole work, all according to his energy levels, and i would do this with a thick pad under his saddle, yes use the saddle in hand, and sit on him in the yard, just to keep him in the game.
i feel this horse has no muscle, from your photos, and needs prep to build up some muscles to move himself, carry himself, and eventually carry himself and the rider without discomfort, no pressure to actually work, just gentle nagging, as i call it, lots of warming up, and up through the gears and back down, somewhere safe.
as he has had no serious investigations, no one here knows whether or not it is something or nothing, it could well be something simple.
i `ve had new horses try rearing, just because they had too much energy, after a few days never did it again i`m sure others will rear because of painetc
there seems to be a lot of furking about in the dark going on here, if you like the horse let fog clear take good advice and run through a few obvious possibilities , make a list, go through it, and take loads of time to think things through with the horse and his reactions
if he came here i would have given him time to settle, done lots of handling and probably walked him out in hand to get to know him, when he has a little weight on him i would have done loose lunging and lunging in very large squares, and some small pole work, all according to his energy levels, and i would do this with a thick pad under his saddle, yes use the saddle in hand, and sit on him in the yard, just to keep him in the game.
i feel this horse has no muscle, from your photos, and needs prep to build up some muscles to move himself, carry himself, and eventually carry himself and the rider without discomfort, no pressure to actually work, just gentle nagging, as i call it, lots of warming up, and up through the gears and back down, somewhere safe.
as he has had no serious investigations, no one here knows whether or not it is something or nothing, it could well be something simple.
i `ve had new horses try rearing, just because they had too much energy, after a few days never did it again i`m sure others will rear because of painetc
there seems to be a lot of furking about in the dark going on here, if you like the horse let fog clear take good advice and run through a few obvious possibilities , make a list, go through it, and take loads of time to think things through with the horse and his reactions
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
Oh the po
Oh the poor lad, I can't imagine being a horse with a mouth injury ! Glad he is well now
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
I have not seen the photo so can't comment, but you have made an excellent post. Slight Problem I think is Mr liver yard owner he is nit going to give the lady or the horse a chance in hell to prove he was a right twinkle Richard, she is paid in advance on full livery and I would think that the op is too intimidated ti move said pony. Hubby obviously is worried about wife, does not know horses so will do what many very caring men do when worried and can't sleigh the dragon so to speak, Nd tbey shout.