New trainer in action 2.....

[milliepops]

Oooh my lordy, I'm trying not to get sucked into this thread too as the previous one demonstrated I'm not good at explaining myself

But...

I didn't comment on the previous thread because everything I would have said had already been said but it does worry me watching this that she doesn't appear to use her seat or legs as much as I would like to see from a "professional trainer"

Several people have made a similar comment on the other thread and I'm really curious - genuinely - what would people want to see here in terms of seat/legs? To my eyes I think she is riding very lightly in this respect - hence the part rising, part sitting according to how he's going in that moment, doesn't need a lot of leg as the horse is quite hot, and is definitely using her seat in the canter, independent from the hands and staying in balance.

also concerned that she needed you to tell her to slow him down and hadnt figured that out for herself.

I think this is a little unfair tbh, I think when anyone takes on a difficult horse it is not uncommon to try different approaches to find one that works. What we don't know is the rider's own thought process - she might have gone home dwelling on the previous ride and already planning the next tactic

In addition, at times - particularly in the canter - he broke to trot several times when the energy fizzled out. That was also the case in the lunge video, when he started to loosen out without enough oomph he couldn't maintain the canter. I can see why she wanted to ride him forward in the first video.

Well, I may get a lot of criticism for this but hey ho.

...

Rome wasn't built in a day, don't expect a horse to change in a day either

Thanks for posting James x

Agree with whole post GG

Now back to the other one, I'm fascinated by the stretching debate there so need to read with an anatomy diagram

 

[aimsymc]

I think (imo) that looked much better, keeping in mind that is the second time she's ridden him. The way people are going on you'd think she was riding in electric spurs!! The horse clearly uses going completely overbent as an evasion and thats going to take time to fix.
Good luck with him armas! And remember you could post a winning badminton round on here and folk would criticize it!

 

[DabDab]

Several people have made a similar comment on the other thread and I'm really curious - genuinely - what would people want to see here in terms of seat/legs? To my eyes I think she is riding very lightly in this respect - hence the part rising, part sitting according to how he's going in that moment, doesn't need a lot of leg as the horse is quite hot, and is definitely using her seat in the canter, independent from the hands and staying in balance.

I agree with you that he does look a lot better in his canter work than his trot work - whether that is because he is naturally more balanced in the canter or whether he responds better to the rider using her seat more, or a combination of the two, I'm not sure. TBH though it is much harder to use a rider's seat on what is naturally a very choppy trot, particularly when the horse naturally seems to hold itself in quite an upright frame. It strikes me that the rider seems to be trying to find the right balance between the aids, particularly in the trot. Like people mentioned on the other thread, it is probably not the type of horse that she is used to.

 

[milliepops]

TBH though it is much harder to use a rider's seat on what is naturally a very choppy trot, particularly when the horse naturally seems to hold itself in quite an upright frame.

^ yes, and also I think *assuming* (always a dangerous thing!!) we all agree that he needs to relax his back/topline, riding with a strong seat can sometimes be counterproductive.

Carl Hester was mentioned a lot on the other thread. Every demo I've seen with him has begun with a light seat & rising trot until the horse is relaxed and working through. Doesn't mean the rider is being ineffective

 

[Cortez]

Why can't she make him go as nicely as the previous trainer, David, did?

 

[twiggy2]

I did not post on the other thread as it became so 'busy', but on both posts the first thing \i want to say is 'by God he is not easy is he?'

the second video is better much better but Armas looked much happier and less confused with the male rider you had previously, I agree it is very early days but the combination of horse and rider seems to really lack communication.

has Armas had many female riders in the past? if so do you feel he has performed as well or better for them than he has for male riders?

 

[Armas]

Why can't she make him go as nicely as the previous trainer, David, did?

It took David a fair few sessions to get to grips with him. Boy they also had some many tantrums together.
Every one has there own take on training and working. Give her time and I am sure you will be surprised.
Alternatively Cortez you welcome to come visit France !
No he has never had a female trainer.

 

[Cortez]

DON'T tempt me! Love France, but have enough of my own crazy PRE's to sort out, thank you

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I *get it*

He looks tricky as anything, i ride two quite similar, over light in the hand generally, rushy rushy but then at certain points just grabs the bit and run.

Would rather see them btv and learning to stretch nicely than having him more open but gobbling on the contact and being ignorant!

I really like the baby transitions she does between the joggy trot and working trot and every time he offers a genuine relaxed stretch, rather than a downward yank, he gets rewarded.

Well done team armas

Sometimes, the need to flex and bend to teach them to follow that contact, then you push the contact out and they follow it there too. Unless you have sat on a horse like this people should really not be so quick to judge!

 

[dieseldog]

Her trot confuses me massively. Sit, rise, sit so she's on the wrong diagonal, rise again...bounce abit Anyone want to enlighten me if i'm being stupid? XD

You do know that there is no such thing as the 'wrong' diagonal? In the UK we ride on a different diagonal to the rest of Europe - if you rode a horse in Germany you would be doing it wrong. It doesn't matter which diagonal you use as long as it isn't the same one all the time. You should never be marked down in a dressage test for being on the wrong one.

 

[Armas]

I did not post on the other thread as it became so 'busy', but on both posts the first thing \i want to say is 'by God he is not easy is he?'

the second video is better much better but Armas looked much happier and less confused with the male rider you had previously, I agree it is very early days but the combination of horse and rider seems to really lack communication.

has Armas had many female riders in the past? if so do you feel he has performed as well or better for them than he has for male riders?

When I hack him out or ride him his head is never BTV however when a rider with strong legs works him properly he revolts. Brown boots said the exact same thing. I just love watching this.
The only girl that gets to ride him is a friends daughter. No saddle no work no BTV !
http://youtu.be/vKh5TK2lksI

Strangely when he jumps he does not go BTV as he enjoys jumping this was our second ever competition as we started to teach him to jump last year.http://youtu.be/Bj39SUBizNE

 

[cundlegreen]

Lovely horse - video is fine from 23 minutes onwards when the rider goes back to walk and lets the horse relax.

Agree that things are improving, there were one or two moments in the first ten minutes, when he did bring his head to the vertical. Several points though... Why wear spurs and carry a whip on a horse like this? there were several very abrupt changes of pace, and one kick out of his leg, poss in response to a spur aid. Second, still going round the outside of the school until she started lateral work. Circles, shallow loop with leg yield back to the fence, and LOTS more walking, to let him stretch his neck would be more helpful. There was one moment when he dropped the canter and went into trot, where he appeared to panic. he obviously has a major hangup about the trot, so take his mind off it and do exercises in walk. I'd be doing pirouette and turns on the forehand. I find this really makes them listen to you. Just ask one step, and then stop, then another step and keep repeating. Nuno Oliveira was a big advocate of this, and it really does get the horse to wait for your signal. However, its all in the timing and ask and release. Still, this is going to take time and more time... Good luck.

 

[nikkimariet]

Several people have made a similar comment on the other thread and I'm really curious - genuinely - what would people want to see here in terms of seat/legs? To my eyes I think she is riding very lightly in this respect - hence the part rising, part sitting according to how he's going in that moment, doesn't need a lot of leg as the horse is quite hot, and is definitely using her seat in the canter, independent from the hands and staying in balance.

In addition, at times - particularly in the canter - he broke to trot several times when the energy fizzled out. That was also the case in the lunge video, when he started to loosen out without enough oomph he couldn't maintain the canter. I can see why she wanted to ride him forward in the first video.

What I did see which is encouraging is that when she did collect him a little bit, she waited for him to lift up out of the overbentedness (yay...new word) and as soon as he did this, allowed him a loose rein forward.

Def looked better to me. I agree I don't believe she is holding his head in, he puts it there and she is saying 'you can't escape the contact'. When he stretches forward her hands follow.
I'm absolutely no expert though.

All of this!

Armas looks better here than in any other flatwork vid I've seen of him.

By the end of the vid he's actually taking weight behind and starting to swing through his hips and back into the hand.

Rider has a light seat and hand, I don't see any kind of forceful riding going on. I like how she patient/calm she seems too - asks the same thing in the same way and then rewards him when he responds correctly.

As per PS' reply - really like the tempo changes she does with him. Something I do with my own rushy rushy whizzy whizzy little chap

 

[charlie76]

I *get it*

He looks tricky as anything, i ride two quite similar, over light in the hand generally, rushy rushy but then at certain points just grabs the bit and run.

Would rather see them btv and learning to stretch nicely than having him more open but gobbling on the contact and being ignorant!

I really like the baby transitions she does between the joggy trot and working trot and every time he offers a genuine relaxed stretch, rather than a downward yank, he gets rewarded.

Well done team armas

Sometimes, the need to flex and bend to teach them to follow that contact, then you push the contact out and they follow it there too. Unless you have sat on a horse like this people should really not be so quick to judge!

Exactly! As I said on the last post, it took a lot of trainers for some one to actually stop telling me to ride my horse with his neck out before he was actually truly connected. To get him connected I had to ride him btv at times, if he sucked behind the contact then my hand and connection followed, even of for a time the picture was ugly! My horse would choose to go very light in the contact and stick himself in rollkur.
By riding him in a frame that was behind the vertical but had a connection I was able to get him to take the contact and stretch over his neck and through his back. This was never going to happen on a negative contact.

I put pictures on of him during his training and was often critised in the way I was riding him and how short he was in the neck at times but I stuck to my guns and now have a horse that is always connected, you can put him in any frame you like and he is a pleasure to ride but it took a long time and a lot of strange looks and negative comments to get to that point.
Sometimes you have to throw the book away and ride what you have underneath you, sod what people think.

This rider is frequently rewarding him, she is quiet on him and soft. She is quick to praise.

A horse that prefers to duck behind the contact and go light it MUCH more difficult to ride than a hollow one and much more difficult to correct.

Armas.. One other thing, what bit do you ride him in? my horse really started to take the contact in a straight bar nathe bit. I only used it for a while but it really helped, from that we moved to a loose ring snaffle and drop noseband. The drop helps to keep the bit still so they can't drop the contact on you.

 

[FlyingCircus]

You do know that there is no such thing as the 'wrong' diagonal? In the UK we ride on a different diagonal to the rest of Europe - if you rode a horse in Germany you would be doing it wrong. It doesn't matter which diagonal you use as long as it isn't the same one all the time. You should never be marked down in a dressage test for being on the wrong one.

Either way, she was riding on two different diagonals when on one rein.

But no, I was not aware of that. Having only ridden in the UK and the USA. You learn something new everyday and all that.

 

[charlie76]

Agree that things are improving, there were one or two moments in the first ten minutes, when he did bring his head to the vertical. Several points though... Why wear spurs and carry a whip on a horse like this? there were several very abrupt changes of pace, and one kick out of his leg, poss in response to a spur aid. Second, still going round the outside of the school until she started lateral work. Circles, shallow loop with leg yield back to the fence, and LOTS more walking, to let him stretch his neck would be more helpful. There was one moment when he dropped the canter and went into trot, where he appeared to panic. he obviously has a major hangup about the trot, so take his mind off it and do exercises in walk. I'd be doing pirouette and turns on the forehand. I find this really makes them listen to you. Just ask one step, and then stop, then another step and keep repeating. Nuno Oliveira was a big advocate of this, and it really does get the horse to wait for your signal. However, its all in the timing and ask and release. Still, this is going to take time and more time... Good luck.

To comment I this, I agree that in principle lateral work should work but with my horse , at that period in his training, lateral work = tension, tension= more dropping behind the bridle and becoming to light in that hand.

 

[cundlegreen]

When I hack him out or ride him his head is never BTV however when a rider with strong legs works him properly he revolts. Brown boots said the exact same thing. I just love watching this.
The only girl that gets to ride him is a friends daughter. No saddle no work no BTV !
http://youtu.be/vKh5TK2lksI

Having seen this video, have you tried this horse in a treeless saddle to eliminate a pain response? Also, as you don't have these problems, why are you putting him through this with a pro rider??

 

[Cortez]

We can all speculate about rights and wrongs, theories and methods, but the fact remains that when Armas was ridden for a relatively short period by a professional Spanish trainer who was used to the breed and experienced in the PRE's particular and unique way of going the horse came right very quickly and performed in an assured, powerful and rhythmic (and confidant/happy) way. I really hope this new trainer "gets" Armas VERY soon, because continuing to ride him in the way she professes is, IME, NOT going to work. He is not a warmblood, he does not move, react or think like one.

 

[Armas]

Exactly! As I said on the last post, it took a lot of trainers for some one to actually stop telling me to ride my horse with his neck out before he was actually truly connected. To get him connected I had to ride him btv at times, if he sucked behind the contact then my hand and connection followed, even of for a time the picture was ugly! My horse would choose to go very light in the contact and stick himself in rollkur.
By riding him in a frame that was behind the vertical but had a connection I was able to get him to take the contact and stretch over his neck and through his back. This was never going to happen on a negative contact.

I put pictures on of him during his training and was often critised in the way I was riding him and how short he was in the neck at times but I stuck to my guns and now have a horse that is always connected, you can put him in any frame you like and he is a pleasure to ride but it took a long time and a lot of strange looks and negative comments to get to that point.
Sometimes you have to throw the book away and ride what you have underneath you, sod what people think.

This rider is frequently rewarding him, she is quiet on him and soft. She is quick to praise.

A horse that prefers to duck behind the contact and go light it MUCH more difficult to ride than a hollow one and much more difficult to correct.

Armas.. One other thing, what bit do you ride him in? my horse really started to take the contact in a straight bar nathe bit. I only used it for a while but it really helped, from that we moved to a loose ring snaffle and drop noseband. The drop helps to keep the bit still so they can't drop the contact on you.

She is using her own bit. Which I believe is a rubber mouth snaffle.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Exactly! As I said on the last post, it took a lot of trainers for some one to actually stop telling me to ride my horse with his neck out before he was actually truly connected. To get him connected I had to ride him btv at times, if he sucked behind the contact then my hand and connection followed, even of for a time the picture was ugly! My horse would choose to go very light in the contact and stick himself in rollkur.
By riding him in a frame that was behind the vertical but had a connection I was able to get him to take the contact and stretch over his neck and through his back. This was never going to happen on a negative contact.

I put pictures on of him during his training and was often critised in the way I was riding him and how short he was in the neck at times but I stuck to my guns and now have a horse that is always connected, you can put him in any frame you like and he is a pleasure to ride but it took a long time and a lot of strange looks and negative comments to get to that point.
Sometimes you have to throw the book away and ride what you have underneath you, sod what people think.

This rider is frequently rewarding him, she is quiet on him and soft. She is quick to praise.

A horse that prefers to duck behind the contact and go light it MUCH more difficult to ride than a hollow one and much more difficult to correct.

Armas.. One other thing, what bit do you ride him in? my horse really started to take the contact in a straight bar nathe bit. I only used it for a while but it really helped, from that we moved to a loose ring snaffle and drop noseband. The drop helps to keep the bit still so they can't drop the contact on you.

So so true, they are sooooooo tricky to connect up in a pic perfect way arent they!

 

[charlie76]

Extremely!!! I had a lesson with a dressage trainer this week, new to me, her comment after warming up was I had him to a really secure connection but it was almost too round and secure...to me that was the best comment in the world, its taken three years!!

 

[milliepops]

We can all speculate about rights and wrongs, theories and methods, but the fact remains that when Armas was ridden for a relatively short period by a professional Spanish trainer who was used to the breed and experienced in the PRE's particular and unique way of going the horse came right very quickly and performed in an assured, powerful and rhythmic (and confidant/happy) way. I really hope this new trainer "gets" Armas VERY soon, because continuing to ride him in the way she professes is, IME, NOT going to work. He is not a warmblood, he does not move, react or think like one.

After your previous comment I went back and watched the first vid of the other trainer. It looked pretty similar to the first one yesterday in many ways - a bit rushed, a bit overbent, a bit like neither one understood the other very well. I don't think we can judge this trainer so quickly (nor am I convinced we really should, given that OP has already stated his intentions to let her have a fair trial with the horse), plenty of people were fairly scathing on that thread too

Either way, she was riding on two different diagonals when on one rein.

But no, I was not aware of that. Having only ridden in the UK and the USA. You learn something new everyday and all that.

I was searching for the thread where this was discussed earlier but couldn't find anything. What I did find was lots of interesting discussions on other boards about the reasons for rising on one diagonal or the other, for 'allowing' the hind leg to come up and forward underneath you vs being able to give a better aid to stimulate that hind leg at various phases of the rise-sit cycle... seems to me it doesn't really matter too much in this case as there are other priorities Perhaps she just wasn't paying any attention to it

 

[Cortez]

After your previous comment I went back and watched the first vid of the other trainer. It looked pretty similar to the first one yesterday in many ways - a bit rushed, a bit overbent, a bit like neither one understood the other very well. I don't think we can judge this trainer so quickly (nor am I convinced we really should, given that OP has already stated his intentions to let her have a fair trial with the horse), plenty of people were fairly scathing on that thread too



I was searching for the thread where this was discussed earlier but couldn't find anything. What I did find was lots of interesting discussions on other boards about the reasons for rising on one diagonal or the other, for 'allowing' the hind leg to come up and forward underneath you vs being able to give a better aid to stimulate that hind leg at various phases of the rise-sit cycle... seems to me it doesn't really matter too much in this case as there are other priorities Perhaps she just wasn't paying any attention to it

I wasn't! (scathing, I mean). And I have seen more than one video of this latest trainer working with Armas.

And yes, it really doesn't matter what diagonal you sit or rise to; other places do it other ways with no discernible difference.

 

[Queenbee]

Well, I may get a lot of criticism for this but hey ho.

Armas, I see huge improvements here.

It is just not good for a horse like this to be viewed through rose tinted glasses. You can't change a horses way of going overnight.

Why do I think it is much improved? Because at 5:20 and 10:50 as examples, the rider shows she is actually listening to the horse. He becomes more correct and he is instantly rewarded with a pressure release of just being allowed to walk.

The trot is much more relaxed and if anyone thinks her hands are too heavy, look at novhting but the reins...the contact is light. She is taking it up occasionally, actually when he dips too far under, she tries to engage the hind and then holds the rein to let him know she wants him to come up, not go forward. The throwing if the reins is not uncommon in classical training it changes the way the bit sits in the mouth and is another way to stop the horse becoming too overbent.

In neither videos is it the rider putting Armas BTV...he is putting himself there. In the first video the rider wasn't allowing him to come up even when he wanted to...but in this video she is...and she is rewarding it.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's never going to be, she is that the beginning of a long journey and if I were in James shoes...I'd be inclined to keep going...Armas looks happier in this video. That's not to say there aren't tense movements, but there are plenty of signs of progress.

Compare the lateral work to that in the dirst video and you'll see a distinct difference. Video one shows a very tense horse all over the place in the lateral work. This video shows a horse that moves from straight to lateral with no disruption of rhythm. Also, when the rider pushes him forward in the trot...he is really opening up without getting so heavy on the forehand.

Some real positives here.

Rome wasn't built in a day, don't expect a horse to change in a day either

Thanks for posting James x

Still very over bent, but having said that I am inclined to agree to a large extent with GG, however, one thing I would really like to see is the opportunity for armas to stretch his neck out long and low at regular opportunities, the lactic acid build up from that work, even for five minutes must be incredibly uncomfortable, it can only be adding to the problem, regular intervals of stretching, are as vital to correct muscle development as working in an outline. If it were my horse, I'd be asking for the rider to allow my horse to stretch every five minutes or so, just to loosen everything out... Lactic acid causes tension, tension does not a relaxed horse make, and it will have a lasting effect.

With regards to tension, I don't know if he has regular physio or massage sessions, but I would look into it, I suspect he probably has some tight muscles up there in his neck from his antics and loosening them would do the world of good for his schooling, also, I heard her talking about the fact that his (I think) right hind was weaker, I'd look at doing some tail pulls to strengthen the hind, Ben is slightly weaker on his left, I do two tail pulls for fifteen seconds each to the right and four to the left, this is helping build him up and level things out.

Definite improvement and the pace suits him far more, it is nice to see her giving him a good pat now and then. There are moments one in particular when she drops the rein to lean forward and pat and his neck relaxes properly, its a fine line between contact and none, but he certainly was quick to react to that, just an observation

 

[Armas]

I think (imo) that looked much better, keeping in mind that is the second time she's ridden him. The way people are going on you'd think she was riding in electric spurs!! The horse clearly uses going completely overbent as an evasion and thats going to take time to fix.
Good luck with him armas! And remember you could post a winning badminton round on here and folk would criticize it!

Winning badminton now there is something to aim for

Agree that things are improving, there were one or two moments in the first ten minutes, when he did bring his head to the vertical. Several points though... Why wear spurs and carry a whip on a horse like this? there were several very abrupt changes of pace, and one kick out of his leg, poss in response to a spur aid. Second, still going round the outside of the school until she started lateral work. Circles, shallow loop with leg yield back to the fence, and LOTS more walking, to let him stretch his neck would be more helpful. There was one moment when he dropped the canter and went into trot, where he appeared to panic. he obviously has a major hangup about the trot, so take his mind off it and do exercises in walk. I'd be doing pirouette and turns on the forehand. I find this really makes them listen to you. Just ask one step, and then stop, then another step and keep repeating. Nuno Oliveira was a big advocate of this, and it really does get the horse to wait for your signal. However, its all in the timing and ask and release. Still, this is going to take time and more time... Good luck.

If you notice about 10 min in she looses the whip as she thought that it was unsettling him !

Still very over bent, but having said that I am inclined to agree to a large extent with GG, however, one thing I would really like to see is the opportunity for armas to stretch his neck out long and low at regular opportunities, the lactic acid build up from that work, even for five minutes must be incredibly uncomfortable, it can only be adding to the problem, regular intervals of stretching, are as vital to correct muscle development as working in an outline. If it were my horse, I'd be asking for the rider to allow my horse to stretch every five minutes or so, just to loosen everything out... Lactic acid causes tension, tension does not a relaxed horse make, and it will have a lasting effect.

With regards to tension, I don't know if he has regular physio or massage sessions, but I would look into it, I suspect he probably has some tight muscles up there in his neck from his antics and loosening them would do the world of good for his schooling, also, I heard her talking about the fact that his (I think) right hind was weaker, I'd look at doing some tail pulls to strengthen the hind, Ben is slightly weaker on his left, I do two tail pulls for fifteen seconds each to the right and four to the left, this is helping build him up and level things out.

Definite improvement and the pace suits him far more, it is nice to see her giving him a good pat now and then. There are moments one in particular when she drops the rein to lean forward and pat and his neck relaxes properly, its a fine line between contact and none, but he certainly was quick to react to that, just an observation

No yawn to this thread Sorry could not resist

I am glad that this thread has turned in to an interesting debate rather than a bun fight. It is this kind information exchange that draws me to H&H.

 

[AmyMay]

When I hack him out or ride him his head is never BTV however when a rider with strong legs works him properly he revolts. Brown boots said the exact same thing. I just love watching this.
The only girl that gets to ride him is a friends daughter. No saddle no work no BTV !
http://youtu.be/vKh5TK2lksI

I've watched this before and just love it. There's your rider!!

Twiggy2 says he's difficult - is he? I don't see that at all.

 

[Armas]

I've watched this before and just love it. There's your rider!!

Twiggy2 says he's difficult - is he? I don't see that at all.

He is not difficult to ride out side of serious work. He is sweet good natured and willing. I ride him with and with out saddle as does my friends daughter.
She is a good little ride

However with a rider with strong legs and seat he tries to put up a fight.

We are of for another session today. We are also going to be starting to add in In hand lateral work which I think is very important.

 

[Goldenstar]

This is an interesting thread for me because two weekends ago I had my first session with a claasical Spanish type trainer who spends a lot of his time doing demos on baroque type horses.
My opinion is ( for what it's worth) I like this session much better she has a plan and rewards the horse of course its not the whole session I am assuming you have cut bits and out including the walk breaks which gives a false impression when you watch it for twenty two minutes.
I like the transitions within the paces she uses Also wonder if he where mine I would use cantering at the beginning of a session as it did appear to loosen him and improve the trot.
Armas is not easy that's for sure he looks opinionated and has learnt this way of going it is going to take time everything with horses takes time.
But I suppose it's about what you want James I think swopping between this rider and David would be a big ask for the horse and certainly he needs consistently working in the same plan ATM.
I find the harsh criticisms of her riding difficult to understand TBH to read some of them you would think she hauling the horse overbent on a vice like contact which clearly she is not doing.
I did enjoy watching the tapes with David I enjoyed watching the approach because it interested me and I suppose it was a sort of racial things ( can't think a better way to but it ) he's a Spanish horse I suppose I liked seeing him with a Spanish trainer .
However firstly he's a horse and he will get in with this as horses do and there is a great benefit in having a rider who can work twice a week say rather than the super intestive sessions he had with David because he came from far away.
I enjoyed my session with the classical trainer it would have been better if he had been here for two days as my head was spinning trying to take everything on board in forty five minutes and I got some good things that are improving this very difficult horse I have .
I hope this makes sense ( late night last night ) I am not fully with it yet this am .I look forward to the next tape and the debate that follows.

 

[AmyMay]

She is a good little rider

She's a fab little rider!

 

[Armas]

This is an interesting thread for me because two weekends ago I had my first session with a claasical Spanish type trainer who spends a lot of his time doing demos on baroque type horses.
My opinion is ( for what it's worth) I like this session much better she has a plan and rewards the horse of course its not the whole session I am assuming you have cut bits and out including the walk breaks which gives a false impression when you watch it for twenty two minutes.
I like the transitions within the paces she uses Also wonder if he where mine I would use cantering at the beginning of a session as it did appear to loosen him and improve the trot.
Armas is not easy that's for sure he looks opinionated and has learnt this way of going it is going to take time everything with horses takes time.
But I suppose it's about what you want James I think swopping between this rider and David would be a big ask for the horse and certainly he needs consistently working in the same plan ATM.
I find the harsh criticisms of her riding difficult to understand TBH to read some of them you would think she hauling the horse overbent on a vice like contact which clearly she is not doing.
I did enjoy watching the tapes with David I enjoyed watching the approach because it interested me and I suppose it was a sort of racial things ( can't think a better way to but it ) he's a Spanish horse I suppose I liked seeing him with a Spanish trainer .
However firstly he's a horse and he will get in with this as horses do and there is a great benefit in having a rider who can work twice a week say rather than the super intestive sessions he had with David because he came from far away.
I enjoyed my session with the classical trainer it would have been better if he had been here for two days as my head was spinning trying to take everything on board in forty five minutes and I got some good things that are improving this very difficult horse I have .
I hope this makes sense ( late night last night ) I am not fully with it yet this am .I look forward to the next tape and the debate that follows.

I did want David to return for a three month stint however we could not agree on a reasonable sum. Sadly it was not meant to be. I would have loved him to return.
However that said I needed to find my self a very good local trainer. Someone who we can both work with. I have a number of yards much closer to me than where this lady is based. Its a 1.15 min drive for me and thus takes up half a day.So its not a trainer I chose lightly.

Give her a few weeks once they start to understand each other I think the positives will really start to show.

I know why you like David so much as did a number of H&H ladies

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