New trainer in action 2.....

[angelish]

Why the naïve assumpptions that I could possibly mean that anyone shouldn't want to improve their horse? That's just silly. My point is why push it to a place it needs to get to using a method it so clearly rejects?

As for Armas continuing the work - at what level? Fight the horse until it accepts the seat and legs of a Cornellison (sp - sorry) student and then transfer it back to owner with neither. Has to start his education all over again.... Like we've already seen him do.

it wasn't a naive assumption , it was a guess because to be honest your not making a whole lot of sense your just coming across as an argumentative nasty pasty if Armas said white would you say black ?
have you got some sort of history with the op ? tbh you look like you are trying to provoke an argument

 

[Mongoose11]

You're confused. I said irritated not irate. No irate person here

Because this is an open forum I am able to question and disagree and you get to respond or not

 

[ester]

I do sort of understand what Billie is getting at.. presumably at some level J is going to have to learn to ride similarly to the trainer to get Armas working at his best. I also suppose that in the past we have seen the horse looking to be uneven in his steps and it has been queried whether this was because he was physically finding the work asked of him difficult at the time.

 

[Mongoose11]

No Angelish I haven't. I'm not the one calling people sweary names either just putting my view across that happens to be different to some. Shoot me now

 

[showpony]

Honestly I wouldnt feel that experienced to majorilly cc the new trainer however she does look harsh at times and horse really does not look happy at all.

Ive just looked at the vid of him jumping & the vid of your friends daughter hacking him - looks like a totally different horse!

Perhaps if he is that tricky is there any point in all this very intensive schooling - do you think it is going to get to the stage where it isn't going to be a battle with him dropping behind the vertical? and when you go back to schooling him yourself are you going to find it very difficult..

If he was my horse I would let him do what he enjoys & leave the super intensive schooling on the back burner for a couple of months.

 

[_GG_]

Horrid, over bent and rushed!! she is haling him in with her hands rather than pushing him into the right shape from behind, the opposite of long and low. I fail to understand why you picked this rider.

Watch the new video...everything has to start somewhere and everything might not be what it at first appears to be. On first look at the first video...easy to draw conclusions of hauling...on looking at others videos, no such thing.

Why the naïve assumpptions that I could possibly mean that anyone shouldn't want to improve their horse? That's just silly. My point is why push it to a place it needs to get to using a method it so clearly rejects?

As for Armas continuing the work - at what level? Fight the horse until it accepts the seat and legs of a Cornellison (sp - sorry) student and then transfer it back to owner with neither. Has to start his education all over again.... Like we've already seen him do.

Where is the horse rejecting this method or this rider though?

I genuinely don't see it, especially not in the latest video. I would agree with you wholeheartedly if I was looking at a horse that was tense, stressed and unhappy in his work....as I did in the first thread. However, I see huge improvements and nothing that suggests the horse isn't happy or being forced outside of what he can comfortably do.

Step back for a bit, take a breath and look at the horse and rider in front of you, not what you expect to see based on the riders trainer.

 

[_GG_]

I do sort of understand what Billie is getting at.. presumably at some level J is going to have to learn to ride similarly to the trainer to get Armas working at his best. I also suppose that in the past we have seen the horse looking to be uneven in his steps and it has been queried whether this was because he was physically finding the work asked of him difficult at the time.

So do I...but James has said already that he will be having lessons. He is just giving the trainer a chance to give the horse consistency. I think that is only a good thing.

Honestly I wouldnt feel that experienced to majorilly cc the new trainer however she does look harsh at times and horse really does not look happy at all.

Ive just looked at the vid of him jumping & the vid of your friends daughter hacking him - looks like a totally different horse!

Perhaps if he is that tricky is there any point in all this very intensive schooling - do you think it is going to get to the stage where it isn't going to be a battle with him dropping behind the vertical? and when you go back to schooling him yourself are you going to find it very difficult..

If he was my horse I would let him do what he enjoys & leave the super intensive schooling on the back burner for a couple of months.

What makes you think the horse doesn't look happy? He didn't look happy in the first video no...not at all, but I see a much happier horse in the latest video.

Where is the super intensive schooling? Armas is an extremely fit and healthy horse and he is only being asked to do basic work. He is being given regular breaks and this is no more than I do at home with my ex racer being retrained.

I don't know James, the horse or the trainer and like many, when I heard who she trains with I died a little on the inside...but have tried to look at the picture in front of me, not the picture I would have in my head if I was told all of this without seeing it.

Hope that makes sense

 

[ester]

No, I agree with your first point too, I suppose equally some would be thinking that the horse hasn't had a lot of consistency in the relatively short time he has been in France having been ridden by the young french lad, BB and now the new lady who all have quite different styles (and J too).

 

[Caol Ila]

Still not totally sold on video 3. Even when Armas has moments of not being behind the vertical, he still looks very short and tight in his neck and has to lose what engagement he has behind.

What does working equitation look like at a "basic and fun" level? Watching the video James posted, it looks like it requires shedloads of collection and the right sort of horse, but then, so does grand prix dressage. Whereas dressage at the level that most of us plebs manage requires less.

(as a total tangent, an ex of mine found a video of Andreas Helgstrand and Blue Hors Matinee and said, "Wow... they've done amazing CGI with that horse. They've made it look like it's dancing!" I answered, "No, you moron, it's real. That's what a Grand Prix dressage horse looks like!" He said, "But I've seen you do dressage and it doesn't look anything like that." Yeah, no kidding!)

 

[Armas]

No, I agree with your first point too, I suppose equally some would be thinking that the horse hasn't had a lot of consistency in the relatively short time he has been in France having been ridden by the young french lad, BB and now the new lady who all have quite different styles (and J too).

Actually you are wrong.

Young lad was my original French trainers son. Same trainer for well over a year. His son helps school Armas jumping on occasion and we have done a couple of competitions.
I enlisted the help of Brown boots to help with various schooling and Spanish walk.
Young girl is a friends daughter who loves my boy thus I allow her to ride on occasion as it makes her happy. She has played with Armas a few times.
I have been riding my boy and taking lessons on him week in week out with the same trainer that is rather consistent. I now have enlisted a trainer that specialises in dressage as my old trainer specialises in jumping.

 

[ozpoz]

I've never seen this video before. Oh my word, what a breath of fresh air! I totally agree with Amymay; there's your rider!!

Just seen this too. How lovely! happy,harmonious forward. I think you should let her carry on with this partnership, just for the pleasure of watching them.

There is no beauty in anything forced.

 

[bluewhippet]

Have nothing to say about video. Just reading posts about how difficult he is to ride and taking him right back to basics...

Just wondered how old he is and what is his history/experience?

 

[Mongoose11]

Ahhhhh you were ready for 'specialists' that makes sense.

 

[Fellewell]

As we're all posting vids I thought I'd add one. enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3a4nNO3ak

 

[Armas]

Have nothing to say about video. Just reading posts about how difficult he is to ride and taking him right back to basics...

Just wondered how old he is and what is his history/experience?

I don't know his history from Spain but I doubt it was good as he is very nervous and head shy. I have had him 1yr 7 months and he is about to turn 9.

As we're all posting vids I thought I'd add one. enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx3a4nNO3ak

What a beautiful partnership

 

[Bubley898]

Just watched the working equitation video. It's like gymkhana for adults, wish they did that in the uk!

 

[Fellewell]

I don't know his history from Spain but I doubt it was good as he is very nervous and head shy. I have had him 1yr 7 months and he is about to turn 9.



What a beautiful partnership

I'm glad you enjoyed the Fuego vid and I agree with your UK PRE breeder on the latest thread. Slow and steady wins the day; " I 'ave to go slow azz ee ees verry senzitiive". She's a keeper IMHO

 

[milliepops]

Just watched the working equitation video. It's like gymkhana for adults, wish they did that in the uk!

I think they do, I watched the (?) European champs at Hartpury a few years ago. Guessing there is probably a reasonable number of people who do it here in order for the champs to travel over to this country

 

[Marydoll]

I've never seen this video before. Oh my word, what a breath of fresh air! I totally agree with Amymay; there's your rider!!

What a difference seeing Armas with a "natural rider" the horse looks really happy, and isnt sneaking behind the vertical at all, they look great together nothing is fixed and nothing is being forced ...... Lovely