Newton Stud slurry death

[INDIA1999]

It seems very harsh to criticise the staff at the stud and blame them for not doing the emergency evacuation well enough. the photos of the fire are horrendous. They must have been terrified, surely they just ran back for the other horses in the barn

I wonder how many horses were in the barn or barns. I wonder why they could not go and check on the welfare of those horses especially the panicking, top 100 one an hour or two later?

 

[INDIA1999]

Hi i'm a new member and have joined the forum because this has been spoken alot about at my yard. This seems so deceiving to me, the fire has never been mentioned. I don't know what to believe on any of this thread now?!

How is the fire relevant? So they had to move some horses who weren't in fields in summer to field. Even if you excuse FAIL 1. that the gates to the slurry pit had been left open and even if you excuse FAIL 2 that they turned a panicking horse out into the field where FAIL 1 existed. How do you excuse FAIL 3 not checking on the panicking horse again? Where's the deception in expecting some level of care and if the stud doesn't have a fire strategy what happens in the WINTER when they must have hundreds more horses inside? Surely? What do you think?

 

[StretchyBetty]

How is the fire relevant? So they had to move some horses who weren't in fields in summer to field. Even if you excuse FAIL 1. that the gates to the slurry pit had been left open and even if you excuse FAIL 2 that they turned a panicking horse out into the field where FAIL 1 existed. How do you excuse FAIL 3 not checking on the panicking horse again? Where's the deception in expecting some level of care and if the stud doesn't have a fire strategy what happens in the WINTER when they must have hundreds more horses inside? Surely? What do you think?

How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen

 

[ycbm]

How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen

It isn't acceptable to have a horse accidentally fall into a slurry pit!

I would want to see evidence of two broken 4-5ft strong timber fences or gates before I would accept that this was an unavoidable accident.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident.

The slurry pit should have been so well fenced off and secured at all times that no horse, dog, child should ever have been able to access it.

 

[fiveleafclover21]

India999, you seem very involved with this and your accusations and claims vary wildly. Your posts are really becoming quite aggressive which I fear might hinder people from believing or paying attention to your rants. Are you involved in some way? Your posts seem to be a mish-mash of information gleaned from Google and Facebook mostly. And please, do try to use punctuation as it's becoming really difficult to follow what you're trying to say.

I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?

It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?

 

[be positive]

How do you actually know if those things did or did not happen? Why are you so unwilling to accept this could simply an accident. I’m quite sure no one would ever wish for this to happen

It was an accident but one that was avoidable if the gate had been securely closed, the fire is not really relevant as a horse could have accessed the field with the slurry pit for numerous reasons possibly going through or over the fencing at any time, like many others I cannot see how the yard can have such a potentially dangerous hazard anywhere near the horses, even a pond would be best fenced off for safety reasons.

 

[laura_nash]

It seems very harsh to criticise the staff at the stud and blame them for not doing the emergency evacuation well enough. the photos of the fire are horrendous. They must have been terrified, surely they just ran back for the other horses in the barn

I am not blaming the staff for not doing the evacuation well. I've no idea about that as no facts on that by those involved have been posted AFAIK.

I am blaming the stud for having a poorly fenced slurry pit (it should be min 1.8m unclimbable fencing or solid wall, from those Google Earth pics it's nothing like that) and leaving it's gate open. You don't do the latter, ever. There's no excuse for it. It should always be safely locked. I suspect this was an accident waiting to happen.

Also, asking for the livery fee was just heartless.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plu...mare-who-died-in-slurry-lagoon-hh-plus-738335

It was an emergency evacuation,” she (Lorna Wilson, of Newton Stud) said. “It was an inferno and we had to get the horses out as quickly and safely as we could. The field into which Die Callas and one other mare were evacuated, to try to keep them safe, lay next to another field in which a slurry pit was located, separated by a fence and a gate.

“In her panic, Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died. Despite the challenging circumstances of the emergency that led to the incident, Newton Stud immediately admitted liability for this accident and provided insurance details without hesitation.”

 

[fiveleafclover21]

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plu...mare-who-died-in-slurry-lagoon-hh-plus-738335

It was an emergency evacuation,” she (Lorna Wilson, of Newton Stud) said. “It was an inferno and we had to get the horses out as quickly and safely as we could. The field into which Die Callas and one other mare were evacuated, to try to keep them safe, lay next to another field in which a slurry pit was located, separated by a fence and a gate.

“In her panic, Die Callas went through the gate and continued into the slurry pit where she tragically died. Despite the challenging circumstances of the emergency that led to the incident, Newton Stud immediately admitted liability for this accident and provided insurance details without hesitation.”

Yes, I've read that, but it didn't seem to me that this meant that she was panicking at the time - I'm sure no one would have stood there and watched her gallop through the gate without doing anything?

 

[laura_nash]

It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?

I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision. Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.

 

[Rowreach]

I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision. Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.

That, and the R.equi.

 

[INDIA1999]

India999, you seem very involved with this and your accusations and claims vary wildly. Your posts are really becoming quite aggressive which I fear might hinder people from believing or paying attention to your rants. Are you involved in some way? Your posts seem to be a mish-mash of information gleaned from Google and Facebook mostly. And please, do try to use punctuation as it's becoming really difficult to follow what you're trying to say.

I didn't get the impression that the mare was panicking at the time she was turned out, I understood from the H&H article that it happened later?

It doesn't seem to me that the stud have claimed it was unavoidable - it says they admitted liability straight away. I'm not sure what is to be gained at this stage? The owner has been compensated (and again, it wasn't about proving guilt - the article says the case was about deciding on the value) and I'm sure it won't happen again. What more are people hoping to achieve here?

There is nothing aggressive about my comments. Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy. What is the mish-mash to which you refer. Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later? In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care. Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.

 

[Blackhathorse]

all seeming to focus on a fire.

I think thats because it was a huge ommision in the owners campaign and never mentioned in all these months. I'm shocked at the deception and the one sidedness and its made me doubt the credibility of all the other stuff. Why wasn't it mentioned? Does anyone know?

 

[fiveleafclover21]

I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision. Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.

I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.

 

[Blackhathorse]

There is nothing aggressive about my comments. Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy. What is the mish-mash to which you refer. Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later? In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care. Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.

But it was a huge fire and a terrible emergency and theres definitely been some misleading information. The stud didn't just allow this beautiful horse to drown.. it was let out in an emergency due to a massive fire. Have you ever been in a fire with horses? your comments are incredibly aggressive with no compassion for the stud staff who must have been terrified.

 

[fiveleafclover21]

There is nothing aggressive about my comments. Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy. What is the mish-mash to which you refer. Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later? In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care. Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.

All of the capital letters make it seem very aggressive and personal. The mish-mash I refer to is obvious - one minute you know all about the fire, and the next you're throwing questions out there etc.
I think it's odd to act as though the stud staff would not have been affected by the fire at all, they were clearly under pressure to get horses evacuated. I have been in a similar situation and you don't just wave at the fire service and then carry on with your mucking out. And from the pictures, the fire was late in the evening so I doubt there were all that many staff there? Absolutely nowhere does it say she was "seen panicking" either, I'm sure if she was then something would have been done. The stud admitted liability and a settlement was reached - what more do you hope to establish by posing all these repetitive and non-sensical questions?

Dignity and honour seems a bit ironic given some of the comments on this thread! I've seen nothing from the stud about this at all.

 

[holydaysandholidays]

There is nothing aggressive about my comments. Please clarify what I have said that varies in accuracy. What is the mish-mash to which you refer. Re: Panicking. So if the mare was not panicking when turned out are you saying that she was seen panicking later? In either scenario, as you will appreciate, if viewed by stud staff there was a failure and negligence in care. Re: liability. I agree the stud must be liable and there is no other option if you are caring for someone's horse and you allow it to drown in a slurry pit. The article and some of the posts above from new joiners suggest that it was in some way excusable because there was a barn fire (being taken care of by all accounts by the fire service) leaving stud staff to ensure that all horses were safe and well. It is a shame that the stud can't act with dignity and honour. Furthermore this does not seem to be an isolated case it seems that other horses have died there or lots of owners have been unhappy or badly treated by the owners.

It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind

 

[ycbm]

It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way ....... Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind

#bekind

#bekind?

What was kind about sending bailiffs in to recover a livery debt on a horse that died in a horrific way because of your negligence?
.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.

Not being prepared to post under your usual name sends alarm bells running with me. So you dont have the courage to say and be recognised as a "unidentifiable person" in real life but dont was t your normal poster name associated with your posts about this and you have admitted to at least two user names... so how many do you really have ?

 

[INDIA1999]

It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind

I think if you read the owner's post on the subject a couple of week's ago it seemed that Newton Stud had gone after her for unpaid fees. I don't see the 'trolling' that you see. I see some information being posted that perhaps owners would not be otherwise aware of. For example, the abattoir waste thing. Are all owners advised of this do you think? Or is it is concealed from them by Newton Stud?

 

[crellow4]

Crellow4 - I have seen the odd complaint, but from what I can see they have several hundred horses so it seems normal that some would be ill/injured. I once read that 5% of all foalings go wrong! I certainly haven't seen any mention of "dozens and dozens" - can you elaborate? I have to say the only bullying I've seen has been towards the stud and some of it has been really vile - regardless of who's to blame many people seem to have forgotten #BeKind. In this instance I think unless you have a direct experience of the place, there's probably no need to get involved. I have been shocked at some of the comments and those people have definitely become people I would avoid dealing with - so unprofessional to get involved in mud-slinging!

In reply to other posters - I think the fire is definitely relevant. Presumably the poor staff were in such a rush to evacuate the horses that the gate wasn't checked (on Google maps it looks a long way from the other gate). That field looks to be near to the barns so I'd imagine she was one of the first to be rescued? Unless you've been in a fire like that (I have) you just can't imagine the stress and pressure that is on you to save as many as you can. It may have been summer, but that's peak foaling season so I guess there were probably quite a few horses in? I can't even imagine the difficulty of trying to evacuate mares with foals at foot!

If you've only seen the odd complaint you're not looking hard enough - mind you, Newton Stud have a very effective policy of paying off complaints and insisting a NDA is signed! Why would they do this if they had nothing to hide?

 

[Gingerwitch]

But it was a huge fire and a terrible emergency and theres definitely been some misleading information. The stud didn't just allow this beautiful horse to drown.. it was let out in an emergency due to a massive fire. Have you ever been in a fire with horses? your comments are incredibly aggressive with no compassion for the stud staff who must have been terrified.

What for 12 hours ? If the not checked allegations are true.bi would have thought the members of staff would have bee super vigilante all sorts of horses out in all sorts of places with noise ans smells of the fire.. so where did all the staff go ?

 

[Rubydooby]

So sorry for your losses nanniegeegee

How incredibly appalling I am so so sorry ... how could this be possible?

 

[Gingerwitch]

It seems that the horses owner has been relentlessly pursuing the stud over facebook in a really awful way - which is neither dingnified nor honourable To mislead her sympathetic audience in this way has not gone down well .. I've followed it on facebook and didn't like the 'trolling' tone from the start. This has confirmed my unease about this, The rest is pure speculation, we don't know the other side and it seems the stud has been much more professional in not responding to the awful and uninformed comments that have been made by people who weren't there. Sadly this appears to be all about money, the stud accepted liability from the start even under the horrific circumstances of the fire. What happened to #bekind

Very professional if even half the accusations are true about the work burdens and the infectious r disease.

 

[INDIA1999]

If you've only seen the odd complaint you're not looking hard enough - mind you, Newton Stud have a very effective policy of paying off complaints and insisting a NDA is signed! Why would they do this if they had nothing to hide?

I think thats because it was a huge ommision in the owners campaign and never mentioned in all these months. I'm shocked at the deception and the one sidedness and its made me doubt the credibility of all the other stuff. Why wasn't it mentioned? Does anyone know?

What other stuff? The mention of abattoir meat spreading or the owners with horses who have died/been unwell/not adequately cared for?

 

[Arzada]

I suspect for us "usual HHO'ers", as opposed to all the new posters who may have other agendas, we are wanting to make sure that anyone who is thinking of sending their horse to this stud is aware of the details of the incident and can take it into account when making their decision. Because it's not just an unfortunate accident it is negligence, as the stud admitted.

Also that anyone stabling on a yard or farm with a slurry pit is aware of the risk and if it's fencing isn't up to scratch, or it isn't always securely padlocked, they can get it sorted or leave.

Yes all of this plus spreading abattoir waste on the fields. Which isn't an accident. I never knew such a thing happened. Totally disgusting and unacceptable.

 

[INDIA1999]

I can absolutely see that, which is why I said that people perhaps should stop if they haven't had a direct experience - it seems that almost no one on this thread has. Some of the comments on Facebook have been absolutely vile and completely unacceptable, regardless of what's happened. I don't think you'll get the "details" here - there's so much he-said, she-said. Always best to go and visit somewhere if you're thinking of sending a horse there!

PS. I'm a "usual" too (been around since 2018) but usually post under a different name - just didn't want to get sucked into all the vitriol with my usual name. I have seen a lot of newbies today (on both sides) but honestly that doesn't surprise me at all and seems to happen a lot here with things like this.

If you have even around since 2018 why have you created at profile for today for this topic?
If you are suggesting that people without direct experience do not comment. What is YOUR direct experience since you seem to think it relevant enough to create a profile and post? Intersted

 

[INDIA1999]

#bekind

#bekind?

What was kind about sending bailiffs in to recover a livery debt on a horse that died in a horrific way because of your negligence?
.

Excellent point.

 

[Sail_away]

Interesting that blackhathorse and stretchybetty made accounts within minutes of one another and have been posting on the same threads all day.... or perhaps I’m overly suspicious ?‍