Not sure where I now stand.

[Jerome]

I admire your persistence in trying to explain to zoo keepers like Fag why the great majority of people object to animal abuse like stag hunting, but I suspect it's a lost cause. These people are completely blinkered and intolerant.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Jerome, I think people would take your posts seriously if you were actually able to engage with what other people are saying in some sort of meaningful manner.

 

[Fairynuff]

Ej, hes not here to say anything constructive or meaningful. Im sure he was here a while ago under a different name. He will probably fade away like the rest of them. M.

 

[peakpark]

Just what I was thinking, Mairi. His style has a familiar ring to it.

 

[endymion]

Mairi, I've been busy sparring with Tom and completely forgot to ask you if your thoughts have changed either way since posting this thread....?

E x

 

[wurzel]

"Like I said, time will tell although maybe those that hunt should make up their minds whether their quarry are going to explode in numbers or disappear completely!! "


Have you not been reading?

I hunt. I have made up my mind.

I believe that if there is no hunting, the Exmoor deer herd will be decimated. They will nearly all be killed. Not completely. But near as makes no difference.

Dead.


Surely that is quite clear ??

 

[endymion]

Did I say your name Tom?? No I said 'those who hunt'. You see you all have different stories. An answer for everything I think it's called.

 

[wurzel]

"Did I say your name Tom?? No I said 'those who hunt'. You see you all have different stories. An answer for everything I think it's called."

But I do hunt.

With the DSSH.

And Minehead Harriers.

I am quite consistent.

 

[Eagle_day]

At the risk of appearing pedantic, it's already worse than that. Decimation means reducing by one-tenth (perhaps we can use it for crap civil servants) but the red deer herd is reported to have decreased by a quarter. LACS must be so pleased: red deer down by (say) 500 but, hey, Tony Wright was convicted and fined £500. That makes it all right then.

 

[Jerome]

Ok Mairi, here's something constructive: if you have to cull an animal why not do it in the most humane way? This, by definition, excludes hunting deer with hounds. The countryside isn't some large-scale zoo which exists to provide Fag & Co with animals to abuse for their own gratification. Animals should live and die with dignity.

 

[endymion]

Who reported this?

Also Q for both Tom and EDay, what are your opinions on people who shoot vast amounts of deer and poach now that there is a ban?

 

[Fairynuff]

Endy, I cant comment on deer hunting as Ive never seen nor taken part in it but the IDEA of it is repulsive to me. Regarding fox hunting, my feelings havent really changed. I cant see the need to hunt to take out the supposedly old or sick, why not let nature take her course.I also cant see the need to hunt any fox unless its a proven rogue, then it faces its fate. No, I dont agree with the supposed need but those who do will never agree with the antis.Were all running in circles at the moment and Im getting dizzy. Italy is another planet and their reasons for taking out the fox population was based on money and pure selfishness. Hunting here is very expensive and a huge whack of the proceeds goes to the government so I guess nothing will change-Italy is also the last member of Europe to use lead in the cartridges and plastic casings(?) all of which are toxic.Heyho, the make nice clothes though!!! . Anti Mairi.

 

[flying_change]

.... and Italy is a beautiful place for a holiday....

 

[Fairynuff]

Jerome, I dont think Tom and co see the countryside as a huge zoo.As hes said , hes farming his grandfathers land so its not as though hes decided to leave the city bank and play at being a country squire like many do. Farming on Exmoor is hard and doesnt make millions so I expect hes still there because he loves his roots and his land. I dont know very much about deer populations etc nor very much about the hunting of them. I dont like the idea of it and would never have gone even when I was pro.I did once say that the deer could be shot by marksmen but there may be a reason why its not practible. Ask Tom why, Im sure he will tell you. Mairi.

 

[Jerome]

I don't need to ask him. I see from one of his posts that he's shooting them himself. I just hope he's a good shot. If not, he should get someone else to do it for him. In any case, stag hunting is unnecessary and cruel.

 

[Fairynuff]

It sure is . M.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Why ask him if you won't listen to his answer.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"why not let nature take her course."

But nature can't take it's course. The natural death for a diseased fox is predation by a wolf, lynx etc. It's nonsense to say a fox would have no natural predators all sick animals have predators.

What you call nature's course for a sick diseased animal is the most unnatural and welfare unfreindly death possible.

 

[Jerome]

I didn't ask him, sweetheart. I know why people hunt deer with hounds - for kicks. They may be nice people "out of the saddle" but, sorry, what they do is just cruel.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Exactly, what's the point in asking someone something if you already know the answer?

Really if you disagree with someone there's no point in talking with them at all is there?

What a great way to go through life.

Not that your mind is closed or anything.

Thank god you don't engage in dialogue or debate or any of those awful things.

 

[wurzel]

"The countryside isn't some large-scale zoo which exists to provide Fag & Co with animals to abuse for their own gratification. Animals should live and die with dignity."

You have it exactly Jerry !!

The countryside is not a zoo. It is usually a business. Owned by someone.

You aren't doing very well.

Who judges what is a dignified life and death for an animal?

Shooting in the ass?

Snaring?

Do rabbits have a dignified death at the hands of a Stoat?

 

[wurzel]

"Also Q for both Tom and EDay, what are your opinions on people who shoot vast amounts of deer and poach now that there is a ban?"

My opinion is that people are being forced into shooting vast amounts of deer.


Poaching is always wrong and has always gone on. Now it is increasing.

Again Endy, It is real life.

 

[wurzel]

"Jerome, I dont think Tom and co see the countryside as a huge zoo.As hes said , hes farming his grandfathers land so its not as though hes decided to leave the city bank and play at being a country squire like many do."

Good post.

I farm the same farm as my grandfather. And my family has farmed either in this or one of the surrounding parishes since 1590.

But of course, some dopey Londoners know how to manage the land in a better way !!

Doh !

 

[wurzel]

"I don't need to ask him. I see from one of his posts that he's shooting them himself. I just hope he's a good shot."

Actually I am not particularly. And the old hatton round isn't too clean !!

But I will keep trying.

"If not, he should get someone else to do it for him."


Who?

 

[wurzel]

"I didn't ask him, sweetheart. I know why people hunt deer with hounds - for kicks. They may be nice people "out of the saddle" but, sorry, what they do is just cruel. "


I don't think you know anything about the subject.

Have you ever been hunting.


I will let you in to a secret.

I hunt deer for fun (I don't do anything for "kicks") and to kill deer.


The fun bit is hard to explain, I am not a philosopher, there are a lot things I do for fun, most of them involving adrenaline.

The killing is simpler. Jointly, farmers control the number of deer eating our grass.

Simple.

 

[Eagle_day]

I've heard some unsettling reports of the mass deer cull in Scotland but I don't know enough about that to form an opinion.

As for the post-ban fall in fox and deer populations, I don't think they're being shot out in a fit of pique but it's more a case of landowners, most of whom don't hunt after all, thinking 'well if the hunt's not coming anymore, then I'm not keeping deer/foxes on my land'. Just a thought.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I think that's a good point. Whether or not hunts do much to keep fox numbers down, the point is that people think they do. When the hunts stop killing foxes, landowners think they need to take over and therefore start killing more foxes.

The MPs behind the ban were aware that shooting might well increase in the wake of a ban:

"Hunt ban not meant to save foxes' lives " http://comment.independent.co.uk/letters/article2029245.ece

That is why comparing the welfare impact of shooting and hunting is so relevant. Unless your only aim is to stop people 'killing for sport' irrespective of whether by doing so you cause more suffering.

 

[endymion]

......and good wine! I'm off to Naples next year, first time in Italy, can't wait!

My bro has just come back from Porto Fino, he's a regular there and loves it. It's way out of my price range though

 

[Fairynuff]

Porto Fino is next door to me! Its a bit out of my pocket money limits but Ive been often, taking my own sarnies and wine of course! Be careful in Naples-its a gun happy and theyd nick your dirty underpants if they could. Im not joking-be careful and dont take ANYTHING of value. You have been warned. Id love to meet you but your going to the wrong end of Italy for that to happen-maybe next time youll come to the north. M.

 

[Jerome]

"Do rabbits have a dignified death at the hands of a Stoat?"

Do they strangle the bunnies? Stick to zoo-keeping.