Pandering to overweight riders

[Jambarissa]

Agreed.

It seems that people use words like 'phobic' or 'hater' or the phrase 'you need to educate yourself' simply to try to shut down another person whose opinion differs from their own, because they have never formed the ability to put forward a cogent argument for their point of view.

The child's view of things being black or white, right or wrong never evolves to recognise all the nuances in between and is, therefore, carried forward into adulthood.

That's the trouble with living in the echo chamber that is social media - rational, thoughtful debate (the very foundation that an enlightened, civilised society is based upon) becomes disabled, and then rejected out of hand as being too tricky to navigate.

Completely off topic but interestingly I'm embroiled in a 'trans women are women' issue at work and the language and nuances are surprisingly similar.

No one is saying the employee in question can not present as a woman, everyone is kind enough to use chosen name and preferred pronouns, but it is not enough. His feelings are being hurt because the women don't want to share locker rooms and toilets with him for very valid reasons (Muslim woman and at least 2 survivors of male violence). The issue was skirted round for ages because no one wanted to hurt his feelings or be accused of transphobia and now we have to dial back on what he's been allowed to do and he's gone to the media and activists have become involved, despite what we're doing being perfectly legal.

There are definitely parallels here on not hurting someone's feeling and being accused of fat shaming. And if not handled very carefully it can all blow up and end up with your business being targeted or boycotted.

Even the issue of knowing weight just from looking is similar, we're not going to get the scales out or do an inspection of lady parts so how to enforce it without the participant's honesty is very difficult!

No intention to derail the conversation, just think the language and issues are surprisingly similar.

 

[ponynutz]

The simulator at our rda carries up to 16 stone and can be booked by anyone. I think this is amazing as it's so useful for getting fitness back whilst not having to worry about the horse.

This is so interesting bc I genuinally think more people would respect the weight limitations of a piece of mechanical kit than a live animal.

 

[Kaylum]

This is so interesting bc I genuinally think more people would respect the weight limitations of a piece of mechanical kit than a live animal.

Yes it is. There are other issues with unbalanced riders on a horse causing damage apart from weight. Not just in terms of rda riders. Having seen on sm riders trying to get their horses to jump over 1m landing on their necks just to show off and the list goes on.

Completely off topic but interestingly I'm embroiled in a 'trans women are women' issue at work and the language and nuances are surprisingly similar.

No one is saying the employee in question can not present as a woman, everyone is kind enough to use chosen name and preferred pronouns, but it is not enough. His feelings are being hurt because the women don't want to share locker rooms and toilets with him for very valid reasons (Muslim woman and at least 2 survivors of male violence). The issue was skirted round for ages because no one wanted to hurt his feelings or be accused of transphobia and now we have to dial back on what he's been allowed to do and he's gone to the media and activists have become involved, despite what we're doing being perfectly legal.

There are definitely parallels here on not hurting someone's feeling and being accused of fat shaming. And if not handled very carefully it can all blow up and end up with your business being targeted or boycotted.

Even the issue of knowing weight just from looking is similar, we're not going to get the scales out or do an inspection of lady parts so how to enforce it without the participant's honesty is very difficult!

No intention to derail the conversation, just think the language and issues are surprisingly similar.

We have had this at work for over 20 years you get use to it.

Weight is weight whatever gender.

Regarding horse therapy we have groups visit us weekly and they don't ride as we are a rescue not a riding shool. They love caring for the animals, filling haynets, mucking out, learning about different aspects of horse care, being outside and interacting with people and horses.

 

[Birker2020]

If you are 18stone as you've said, then 20stone inc tack is a conservative estimate. To meet the 15% rule you'd need a horse of 850kgs. 20 stone is too much weight for any horse to be asked to carry in most peoples opinions. The amount of force through small saddle panels is extreme and that is magnified in the legs.

The fact you are only losing weight to appease other people indicates that you think your weight is ok to put on a horses back. As do a small minority of people, who are told in an echo chamber of social media, that this is fine. Which is exactly what this post was all about. And as this post has been an echo chamber of people saying its wrong and needs addressing, its interesting to hear from the other side who think its fine.

I haven't ridden since April last year. When I did I was lighter than I am now - LW. My horse was 17hh. When I rode Bailey I was probably around 16 st, she was 17.1hh and weighed 720kg.

I'll be honest, this is why I have kept a bit of a back seat on this post as I predicted how someone would bring up my weight and I've not been let down.

Not that I have to justify myself to you, but I am losing weight so I can get another horse and to stop shallow people looking down on me with such hostility. And because I realise that I am a ticking time bomb in relation to my weight and medication which I am desperate to get off, hence if I did go ahead and have the weight loss injections which I've been told by my doctor I am legible for then if I can shift this weight I am hoping my joints will be less stressed and I can cut down with a view to eventually coming off.

I am trying everything under the sun to try and lose this weight. I know there are people in a similar position to me. We should just try to support each other.

 

[ycbm]

Agreed.

It seems that people use words like 'phobic' or 'hater' or the phrase 'you need to educate yourself' simply to try to shut down another person whose opinion differs from their own, because they have never formed the ability to put forward a cogent argument for their point of view.

The child's view of things being black or white, right or wrong never evolves to recognise all the nuances in between and is, therefore, carried forward into adulthood.

That's the trouble with living in the echo chamber that is social media - rational, thoughtful debate (the very foundation that an enlightened, civilised society is based upon) becomes disabled, and then rejected out of hand as being too tricky to navigate.

This is so true.


"Be kind" is also now being widely used to mean "be quiet".
.

 

[scats]

The crux of the matter for me is that animal welfare must always override the feelings of a human being.
The fact that nobody wants to upset/offend anyone anymore has got us into this situation in the first place.

 

[Arzada]

This is so interesting bc I genuinally think more people would respect the weight limitations of a piece of mechanical kit than a live animal.

Very true. Bikes have weight limits. And wheels too. No wheel builder is going to under-wheel you. If either break under you it won't be pleasant so you choose your bike and wheels accordingly.

 

[Gloi]

I haven't ridden since April last year. When I did I was lighter than I am now - LW. My horse was 17hh. When I rode Bailey I was probably around 16 st, she was 17.1hh and weighed 720kg.

I'll be honest, this is why I have kept a bit of a back seat on this post as I predicted how someone would bring up my weight and I've not been let down.

Not that I have to justify myself to you, but I am losing weight so I can get another horse and to stop shallow people looking down on me with such hostility. And because I realise that I am a ticking time bomb in relation to my weight and medication which I am desperate to get off, hence if I did go ahead and have the weight loss injections which I've been told by my doctor I am legible for then if I can shift this weight I am hoping my joints will be less stressed and I can cut down with a view to eventually coming off.

I am trying everything under the sun to try and lose this weight. I know there are people in a similar position to me. We should just try to support each other.

Good luck Birker, I know how hard it can be, especially as we get older.

 

[Kaylum]

Very true. Bikes have weight limits. And wheels too. No wheel builder is going to under-wheel you. If either break under you it won't be pleasant so you choose your bike and wheels accordingly.

Wheelbarrows have weight limits as well. Nobody sticks to those and wonder why they break.

 

[Ali27]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

 

[Jambarissa]

Weight is a difficult issue and isn't treated kindly in society.

We don't tell an alcoholic to just stop drinking or a drug addict to just stop using but we're happy to tell an overweight person to just stop overeating.

I'm well versed on the latest research, I think we've focused on calorie deficit for far too long but 'eat less, move more, and shame for lack of willpower when it doesn't work' is still the default.

But that does not excuse overloading a horse! No one has to ride.

 

[I'm Dun]

I haven't ridden since April last year. When I did I was lighter than I am now - LW. My horse was 17hh. When I rode Bailey I was probably around 16 st, she was 17.1hh and weighed 720kg.

I'll be honest, this is why I have kept a bit of a back seat on this post as I predicted how someone would bring up my weight and I've not been let down.

Not that I have to justify myself to you, but I am losing weight so I can get another horse and to stop shallow people looking down on me with such hostility. And because I realise that I am a ticking time bomb in relation to my weight and medication which I am desperate to get off, hence if I did go ahead and have the weight loss injections which I've been told by my doctor I am legible for then if I can shift this weight I am hoping my joints will be less stressed and I can cut down with a view to eventually coming off.

I am trying everything under the sun to try and lose this weight. I know there are people in a similar position to me. We should just try to support each other.

Its not any sort of personal attack, why would it be? I've been your weight but I'm much shorter so was much fatter. But you are looking to buy another horse and were riding your previous one at this weight. If you didnt lose weight you would be happy to continue riding. You said you were losing weight for other people, not in order to ride.

As I said its interesting to hear from the other side. Do you think that you arent too heavy? Or do you know you are but think its not doing any damage? Or something else?

Who is to say we are right and you are wrong anyway. The science is far from clear cut.

 

[9tails]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

Are you aware how sanctimonious you come across? "Ooh, I piled on the weight to 10.5 stone and easily lost it, because I've never been overweight and messed up my metabolism. But I'm ignoring that fact and using my age as a valid marker. Just walk 20k steps every day on your creaky arthritic knees and overcome your food addiction and you could all be like me."

How very dare you.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

Oh poor you , getting so fat you could barely fit into a size 10!
It is not as hard to lose a few extra pounds when you still have mobility and stamina as it is when you are obese and probably unable to walk up a flight of stairs.
I absolutely don't agree with such people riding horses ,.and larger people should absolutely only ride horses sufficiently large for them.
But to compare yourself easily losing a few pounds/kilos by increasing your steps to someone who has very little mobility due to obesity is just shallow, naive and quite insulting.

 

[DabDab]

This is so interesting bc I genuinally think more people would respect the weight limitations of a piece of mechanical kit than a live animal.

Of course they would. Because the mechanical weight limit for a mechanical horse is mathematically derived from actual science (hint: they didnt weigh the mechanical horse and then set the weight limit to 15%) and the relevant piece of information (weight limit) is then delivered to people in those non-emotive, matter of fact terms.

Whereas with actual live horses literally nobody can be bothered to work out the relevant forces at play so that weight limit information can be delivered in a similar manner. And this thread is evidence that even the suggestion of working this kind of information out so that it can be delivered to people in a non-emotive way is met with the vast majority of posters losing their tits and cries of BUT WELFARE! ABUSE! THEY ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEIR DOING! 15%!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sprogladite01]

It's not a lack of knowledge. It's prioritising their want to ride above all other factors.

I don't believe for one minute that people aren't aware, however generally, of their weight and whether it's fair to expect a horse to carry it.

This, completely. I know someone who has a little 13hh cob, she must weigh at LEAST 15 stone (and tbh I'm being extremely kind with that estimate) and as a 4 year old he was broken in and is now being ridden regularly by her. She is so large that she literally does not fit in the saddle. Before he was broken in, she ummed and ahhhd about breaking him in because she knew she was too heavy for him, but she justified it to herself by saying "he's a cob, he's probably stronger than he looks" this is after having a 10year old cob who's approx 15hh she'd done the same thing with, who is now crippled and unrideable. But they're just "unlucky". I cringe every time I see photos of her riding.

What makes it even worse is that her current horse comes from a sanctuary, and they don't seem worried by the glaring welfare issue at all.

 

[AmyMay]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

 

[m1stify]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

Just because this worked for you you assume it will work for everyone and that is attitude that overweight people are dealing with when in fact it is much more complex than this. This is aside from the debate of some riders being too heavy for their horses. But this kind of attitude is outdated in this day and age

 

[teacups]

I think the “overweight” issue is a huge issue in society now! It’s so sad seeing kids who are already obese! But then when you see all the rubbish that a huge majority of people put in their shopping trolley! “You are what you eat”! Losing weight is 80% diet and 20% exercise. And anyone can lose weight reasonably easily if they cut out junk food and increase steps.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my weight had crept up last year to 68kg although I could still squeeze myself into my size 10/12 clothes. I’m 5ft 6 and 50. By cutting out junk food, alcohol and making sure I did 20k steps a day, I lost 6.5kg in 8 weeks easily without feeling hungry and as if I was on a diet.
If you really put your mind to it, it can be done!
I’m now down to 57.5 kg, in a size 6/8 and feel so fit and healthy! I now run/ train at the gym 5/6 times a week as well as riding too.
Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!
A few people on my Facebook friend’s list are very overweight and one rides a 16.2 tb which makes me cringe. Nobody ever says anything on her posts when apparently horse has misbehaved (probably down to carrying too much weight)! I might have to delete this person as I can’t bear it but know if I was to comment then I would be seen as being unkind! Poor horse

I was surprised to see some unkind responses to this, rather than a 'well done' for managing to lose nearly 2 stone in a year, consistently doing more exercise, and feeling better for it.

Having read the responses I can see what they are getting at, but equally I would say to those responding: actually there is quite a lot of help out there for those who'd like to try to lose weight, and in the vast majority of cases the method Ali27 has used would work really well. Just cutting out (some of the) crisps, cakes, chocolate, alcohol and other empty calories would for most people translate to weight loss, even without the extra exercise.

Many, many people would nót find that easy (sugar & fat is addictive stuff) but I think it is pretty encouraging to hear someone say that they did not find it too difficult, and that it cán be done.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Absolutely no reason for anyone to be overweight and especially not use the age excuse too!

Really? Well done for losing your weight, but please think a little more before baldly stating the above.

 

[m1stify]

Also, its easier to loose weight than keep it off and that is proven scientifically. Your metabolism slows when you loose weight. And its very hard to remain on a diet for the rest of your life. Again, this is not jusfiying overweight riders on unsuitable horses. Just in general.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

There are no valid reasons for any of us to inflict our weight on any animal that isn't capable of carrying us without suffering harm to itself. We can interact with horses without riding them.

 

[AmyMay]

Just because this worked for you you assume it will work for everyone and that is attitude that overweight people are dealing with when in fact it is much more complex than this. This is aside from the debate of some riders being too heavy for their horses. But this kind of attitude is outdated in this day and age

It won’t work for everyone. But it’s a damn good place to start.

 

[Peglo]

Also, its easier to loose weight than keep it off and that is proven scientifically. Your metabolism slows when you loose weight. And its very hard to remain on a diet for the rest of your life. Again, this is not jusfiying overweight riders on unsuitable horses. Just in general.

That is one of my biggest issues with these “online coaches” who have no qualifications and charge £1000 to overhaul someone’s whole diet so they are eating a chicken breast, protein shakes and zero calorie jelly and have them doing the same gym workouts as everyone else on their “program.” Then after their 2 months is up the client hasn’t changed bad habits, just put them on hold until the day they can stop following this rubbish and the weight piles back on. But “oh I lost so much weight last time so I will pay them again to help me” and the cycle goes on and they take more money off these people without giving them any help for going forwards because nobody will/wants to restrict themselves longterm to these ‘diets’ they are pushing and they haven’t learnt anything about fuelling their bodies. Not to mention even a qualified dietitian won’t give you a meal plan like these people do.

Sorry that’s me going off on a total tangent but it infuriates me when these well meaning folk are set up to fail whilst ‘online coaches’ are pocketing so much money.

Please note I am not speaking about PT’s or dieticians. Both have qualifications. And even some influencers give better advice online.

And its very hard to remain on a diet for the rest of your life.

This is why it is best to try and find a lifestyle (not diet) that works for you to keep to your chosen weight which will be different for everyone.

 

[AmyMay]

Also, its easier to loose weight than keep it off and that is proven scientifically. Your metabolism slows when you loose weight. And its very hard to remain on a diet for the rest of your life. Again, this is not jusfiying overweight riders on unsuitable horses. Just in general.

But for those without any underlying conditions loosing weight is about a lifestyle change, rather than dieting.

 

[Birker2020]

Good luck Birker, I know how hard it can be, especially as we get older.

Thank you Gloi.

 

[m1stify]

But for those without any underlying conditions loosing weight is about a lifestyle change, rather than dieting.

it really is not that simple though and you saying it is is quite frankly insulting to overweight/obese people.

(which I am not btw but I just can't see how you can say its so simple when the heaviest you have been was squeezing into a size 10)

 

[m1stify]

Frequently asked questions — Its not your fault

www.itsnotyourfault.ie

 

[AmyMay]

Frequently asked questions — Its not your fault

www.itsnotyourfault.ie

So basically he’s reinforcing what @TPO , myself and others have said.

Precluding underlying health issues - eat well and you’ll loose weight.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

So basically he’s reinforcing what @TPO , myself and others have said.

Precluding underlying health issues - eat well and you’ll loose weight.

Spot on Amymay.