Pandering to overweight riders

[palo1]

One of the many reasons why I no longer judge, especially in the UK, is the pure effort of having to bite my tongue as so many (soooo many.....) overweight riders wobble and bounce around on their long-suffering horses, which are almost universally massively fat too. To continue to ride when you are obese is outright animal abuse, and I have no problem telling people. And they should be ashamed.

ETA: you cannot "ride light", the term is accursed. I think the idea people are trying to convey is that of being balanced; a balanced load is always easier to bear than an unbalanced one, but it is still precisely the same weight.
E yet A: The vast, vast majority of overweight riders I have seen are anything but balanced.

It is almost inevitable that if you are overweight and/or overweight for your horse that you will be unbalanced. Balance is, in part, a function of an athletically sound body and whilst some heavier people do have good balance it is much, much harder to achieve. For one thing, it is very difficult for your body's proprioception to 'control' fat/put it where it needs to be.

 

[Tiddlypom]

It's interesting that some reputable riding centres/trail ride providers have a somewhat flexible upper weight limit depending on rider height.

Their reasoning is that a 6'2" rider weighing 15 stone will be a very different proposition and better able to carry their weight in the saddle to a 5'0" rider of the same weight.

As Cumbrian Heavy Horses have found, the shorter heavier riders are less balanced and fall off more often than taller riders of the same weight. There are a number of other variables, of course, but that's what they have found. And they'd rather their clients didn't fall off.

I can ride much better and more effectively when I am slim than when I am overweight.

 

[SEL]

It is almost inevitable that if you are overweight and/or overweight for your horse that you will be unbalanced. Balance is, in part, a function of an athletically sound body and whilst some heavier people do have good balance it is much, much harder to achieve. For one thing, it is very difficult for your body's proprioception to 'control' fat/put it where it needs to be.

I think even if you aren't overweight per se but are too big for the horse / pony you are on it is harder to be balanced. A well fitting saddle definitely helps but it doesn't detract - or shouldn't - from the point that if a rider is too heavy then they shouldn't be on board.

 

[Glitterandrainbows]

I see a lady hacking near me who is very large on quite a small pony, maybe 14hh, you can barely see the saddle as her thighs & bottom completely cover it, you can just see the cantle. Pony has ears back, looking unhappy & his back is dipped. She’s often hacking in company, why doesn’t her yard manager say something?!

i know someone like this gets ulcers all the time cause can’t be found apparently vet was saying is there anything you could think of to the owner

 

[Z3bby]

I agree that on SM there’s a lot of seemingly overweight riders, however I find there’s rudeness and inaccuracies on both sides, unless you actually know the rider weight and the horses ideal weight you can’t really comment. Everyone carries weight differently, and no you can’t tell from a photo/just looking what someone weighs. Humans in general are terrible at guessing other people weight.
But then on the other side you’ve got you clearly too big riders on clearly too small horses with people oblivious to that fact.
So I think there’s terrible attitudes on both sides.
Horse welfare should definitely come first but I think in general people need to mind their own business, do what’s best for your own horses, that’s all you can actually control, however advocate for ‘competitive’ organisations and perhaps venues to implement weight rules (not guidelines) and stick to them (human and horse scales available to check adherence to the rules) but everyone should be checked not just the combinations which people don’t like the look of. (I mean it’s unlikely to happen because of available resources at such venues, but then screaming at ‘fat’ people on Facebook is also unlikely to change anything either)
Either way starting an argument on SM won’t fix anything, if you want to talk about rider/horse weight ratios, education and making your own posts about it is probably more effective. Unless you are asked for your opinion you should keep it to yourself.

 

[shortstuff99]

Just for interest William Fox-Pitt is 80kg and Oliver Townend is 83kg. Ballaghmor Class can't weigh more than 600kg when fully fit? That, with tack, probably puts him over 15%, but after 6 years at 5 star I wouldn't say he was struggling.

 

[shortstuff99]

I've said this on the forum before, but I have had chunks of time off riding the horse in my avatar because of going over what I calculated as her weight limit, only to be repeatedly told that I'm fine, I should crack etc. etc.

The weight limit is the limit. She's currently off for a suspensory - the rehab is going to be in long reins and if I can't get back down to the right weight I will not be getting back on!

There's a girl at the stables who mentioned her weight the other day (same as mine), but her horse is only half a hand bigger than my cob, but Iberian and very finely built and 18 years old - I can't believe that she's under 20 per cent with tack, as he must be significantly lighter than my cob. But she is the loveliest person and a beautiful rider who very much loves her horse. Thinking I'll somehow bring up my determination to lose weight to ride my cob again and mention our actual weights (mine and coblet).

You would think this but my 16hh maxi cob is 600kg ideal weight and my 16hh Iberian is 630kg ideal weight!

 

[Cortez]

I agree that on SM there’s a lot of seemingly overweight riders, however I find there’s rudeness and inaccuracies on both sides, unless you actually know the rider weight and the horses ideal weight you can’t really comment. Everyone carries weight differently, and no you can’t tell from a photo/just looking what someone weighs. Humans in general are terrible at guessing other people weight.
But then on the other side you’ve got you clearly too big riders on clearly too small horses with people oblivious to that fact.
So I think there’s terrible attitudes on both sides.
Horse welfare should definitely come first but I think in general people need to mind their own business, do what’s best for your own horses, that’s all you can actually control, however advocate for ‘competitive’ organisations and perhaps venues to implement weight rules (not guidelines) and stick to them (human and horse scales available to check adherence to the rules) but everyone should be checked not just the combinations which people don’t like the look of. (I mean it’s unlikely to happen because of available resources at such venues, but then screaming at ‘fat’ people on Facebook is also unlikely to change anything either)
Either way starting an argument on SM won’t fix anything, if you want to talk about rider/horse weight ratios, education and making your own posts about it is probably more effective. Unless you are asked for your opinion you should keep it to yourself.

Just out of interest, if you saw someone beating a horse would you "keep your opinion to yourself"?

 

[Z3bby]

Just out of interest, if you saw someone beating a horse would you "keep your opinion to yourself"?

I mean that’s comparing apples to oranges in relation to my post, beating a horse is undeniably abusive.
As I said rider weight is a hell of a grey area. Again as I said if you don’t know the weight of that person and that horse, probably shouldn’t be commenting. Lots of people will over and under estimate other peoples/and even their own weight. (Cumbrian Heavy Horses did a weigh day where multiple riders came in up to 1-2 stone heavier than they’d said they were, a couple were lighter).
Maybe you misunderstand me I’m not defending overloading horses, I’m defending people who are well within their horses weight carrying capability been abused on SM by keyboard warriors for no reason.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I notice it a lot that we are just supposed to "be kind " and not point out that the person shouldn't be riding that horse /any horse.

 

[silv]

Nobody can ride lighter than they weigh.

When people say it what they really mean is that a badly balanced rider can feel even heavier to the horse. But weight is weight.

ETA, whatever weight limit you set, and my limit is 15% including tack, no rider should weigh more and badly balanced riders should weigh less.
.

Totally agree with you about balanced riders riding lighter, it drives me mad when I hear that and the 20% rule is nonsense too.

 

[Cortez]

I mean that’s comparing apples to oranges in relation to my post, beating a horse is undeniably abusive.
As I said rider weight is a hell of a grey area. Again as I said if you don’t know the weight of that person and that horse, probably shouldn’t be commenting. Lots of people will over and under estimate other peoples/and even their own weight. (Cumbrian Heavy Horses did a weigh day where multiple riders came in up to 1-2 stone heavier than they’d said they were, a couple were lighter).
Maybe you misunderstand me I’m not defending overloading horses, I’m defending people who are well within their horses weight carrying capability been abused on SM by keyboard warriors for no reason.

The majority of people are actually heavier than they look, and someone who looks fat - and I mean extremely fat - on a horse is not being "abused" by having that fact commented upon. I am a judge, and I WILL comment if I feel it is relevant, and it's always relevant if a rider is far too heavy for their horse.

"Being kind" by not mentioning the obvious is not kind to the horse.

 

[silv]

I live in Australia and am curious to see what the general consensus is in other countries regarding overweight riders?

I was recently kicked off a Facebook group for telling a rider she is too big to ride any horse, let alone the 15hh TB she was sitting on. This person is 125 kilos (19 stone) however, out of the 100 or so comments, I was the only person to comment negatively, everyone else was saying ''oh you look fine'' and ''as long as you are a balanced rider your size doesn't matter''.

I felt like I was in some parallel universe! It's so crazy to me that so many people thought this was OK, is it this widely accepted everywhere else or is it only here?

Same here in NZ unfortunately. I don't know why people don't buy horses up to their weight. I would say it seems very common in western circles with very large women who would be too heavy and with really heavy western saddles I want to cringe. There is a very heavy teenager who must be 13+ stone and tall who rides an old 15hh horse in dressage competitions. The poor horse is over 20, stiff and clearly struggling, it is horrible to watch, yet none of the dressage judges say anything. Someone I know complained to the national body and was told it was such a grey area, so basically it continues, quite sickening I say.
Never be ashamed to speak your mind when animal welfare is at stake.

 

[Z3bby]

The majority of people are actually heavier than they look, and someone who looks fat - and I mean extremely fat - on a horse is not being "abused" by having that fact commented upon. I am a judge, and I WILL comment if I feel it is relevant, and it's always relevant if a rider is far too heavy for their horse.

"Being kind" by not mentioning the obvious is not kind to the horse.

I don’t disagree with you, I don’t really understand why you’re aggressively replying to me.
You’re talking about the extreme and I’m talking in general.
I never said anything about being kind, being kind shouldn’t come above animal welfare, I just don’t think ripping into 1 or 2 people occasionally on SM is actually going to improve overall welfare in the long term.

 

[I'm Dun]

Just out of interest, if you saw someone beating a horse would you "keep your opinion to yourself"?

Theres a regular poster who openly tells people shes 18 stone (so will be over 20 stone on the horses back) and looking for a new horse. I dont recall anyone ever saying, actually, you are too heavy to ride any horse, in fact, its just endless positive comments, so it would seem most people either keep their opinions to themselves or don't see an issue with it.

 

[SEL]

I don’t disagree with you, I don’t really understand why you’re aggressively replying to me.
You’re talking about the extreme and I’m talking in general.
I never said anything about being kind, being kind shouldn’t come above animal welfare, I just don’t think ripping into 1 or 2 people occasionally on SM is actually going to improve overall welfare in the long term.

No one gets to "rip into" people though - dare to mention on a couple of Instagram accounts that the rider is obviously too big and heavy for their horse and the comment is promptly removed. If it stays for any length of time then the poster is accused of fat shaming, bullying etc. Horse welfare gets zero consideration.

I don't care what people weigh unless they get on a horse. Then it's anyone and everyone's business and the more people who call them out the more people will realise it's unacceptable.

 

[Z3bby]

No one gets to "rip into" people though - dare to mention on a couple of Instagram accounts that the rider is obviously too big and heavy for their horse and the comment is promptly removed. If it stays for any length of time then the poster is accused of fat shaming, bullying etc. Horse welfare gets zero consideration.

I don't care what people weigh unless they get on a horse. Then it's anyone and everyone's business and the more people who call them out the more people will realise it's unacceptable.

Comments been removed when rider/horse weight ratio is called out isn’t great and yeah they should be called out.
Do we actually know the rider/horse weight ratio in all of these cases or is it all just guesswork?
I’ve seen some horrific comments on posts where honestly could be either way.
Surely a better way to address these concern is petitioning BD/BE/BS ect to implement weight restrictions/ratio and disqualify riders who breach it? Something along those lines sends the message more clearly and consistently that it is unacceptable.
I’m not saying riders shouldn’t be called out. I’m certainly not saying that people regardless of weight should be able to get on any horse.
I’m just saying we should be basing things on facts not feelings.

 

[Cortez]

Comments been removed when rider/horse weight ratio is called out isn’t great and yeah they should be called out.
Do we actually know the rider/horse weight ratio in all of these cases or is it all just guesswork?
I’ve seen some horrific comments on posts where honestly could be either way.
Surely a better way to address these concern is petitioning BD/BE/BS ect to implement weight restrictions/ratio and disqualify riders who breach it? Something along those lines sends the message more clearly and consistently that it is unacceptable.
I’m not saying riders shouldn’t be called out. I’m certainly not saying that people regardless of weight should be able to get on any horse.
I’m just saying we should be basing things on facts not feelings.

What feelings are you talking about? If someone looks obese they generally are, if they look too heavy for their horse they generally are, I’m not aware of a single instance of this not being the case.

 

[Z3bby]

What feelings are you talking about? If someone looks obese they generally are, if they look too heavy for their horse they generally are, I’m not aware of a single instance of this not being the case.

Facts are ‘this person is 80kg with tack, the pony’s ideal weight is 350kg, therefore using a 20% rule this person shouldn’t ride this pony’.
Feelings are ‘I don’t think that person should be riding that horse because they look overweight’.
Could you explain why you disagree?

 

[shanti]

I agree that on SM there’s a lot of seemingly overweight riders, however I find there’s rudeness and inaccuracies on both sides, unless you actually know the rider weight and the horses ideal weight you can’t really comment. Everyone carries weight differently, and no you can’t tell from a photo/just looking what someone weighs. Humans in general are terrible at guessing other people weight.
But then on the other side you’ve got you clearly too big riders on clearly too small horses with people oblivious to that fact.
So I think there’s terrible attitudes on both sides.
Horse welfare should definitely come first but I think in general people need to mind their own business, do what’s best for your own horses, that’s all you can actually control, however advocate for ‘competitive’ organisations and perhaps venues to implement weight rules (not guidelines) and stick to them (human and horse scales available to check adherence to the rules) but everyone should be checked not just the combinations which people don’t like the look of. (I mean it’s unlikely to happen because of available resources at such venues, but then screaming at ‘fat’ people on Facebook is also unlikely to change anything either)
Either way starting an argument on SM won’t fix anything, if you want to talk about rider/horse weight ratios, education and making your own posts about it is probably more effective. Unless you are asked for your opinion you should keep it to yourself.

Petitioning and such is generally a slow process, in the meantime horse welfare issues absolutely should be called out.

The person who posted was asking why her horse tried to buck every time she attempted to canter, she posted a video of herself riding an obviously uncomfortable horse. I told her the reason she was having issues was because she was too heavy for the horse (which was blatantly obvious) She said she was only 125kg's

 

[Z3bby]

Petitioning and such is generally a slow process, in the meantime horse welfare issues absolutely should be called out.

The person who posted was asking why her horse tried to buck every time she attempted to canter, she posted a video of herself riding an obviously uncomfortable horse. I told her the reason she was having issues was because she was too heavy for the horse (which was blatantly obvious) She said she was only 125kg's

Definitely they should, in this situation, person asking for help then willingly giving the info is absolutely right that it should be called out .
125kg on a fine tb type is !
I think been kicked out of a group for stating that is ridiculous. Hopefully irrespective of the group admins decision the person takes the advice on board.

 

[SEL]

Facts are ‘this person is 80kg with tack, the pony’s ideal weight is 350kg, therefore using a 20% rule this person shouldn’t ride this pony’.
Feelings are ‘I don’t think that person should be riding that horse because they look overweight’.
Could you explain why you disagree?

Mainly because if someone looks too big on a horse they usually are. Is it any different to ask how much someone weighs to saying you look too heavy for the horse?

 

[AmyMay]

Feelings are ‘I don’t think that person should be riding that horse because they look overweight’.
Could you explain why you disagree?

That is not a statement of feelings, rather a statement of observation.

 

[ycbm]

I’m defending people who are well within their horses weight carrying capability been abused on SM by keyboard warriors for no reason.

I really struggle to believe that happens. If people are getting told they look too heavy for their horses, they probably are.

I've read more than once how people have lost weight and only after losing weight have realised that their horses are finding it noticeably easier to carry them, when before they would have said they were fine.
.

 

[sbloom]

I've read more than once how people have lost weight and only after losing weight have realised that their horses are finding it noticeably easier to carry them, when before they would have said they were fine.
.

Yep, seen this. Mostly people don't clock unhealthy movement at all. Mind you I did once have a large rider get on a small pony and even she could feel the mare struggle, she was moving markedly differently in front. Mind you I still had to tell her not to ride the pony at all, she was intent on doing light work with her.

 

[tristar]

the flippin organizations who run comps should be weighing people!

everyone knows people are larger these days, not necessarily fat just bigger overall

and all those judging dressage need to up their game, get em weighed and mark down a lot of the bad riding

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Petitioning and such is generally a slow process, in the meantime horse welfare issues absolutely should be called out.

The person who posted was asking why her horse tried to buck every time she attempted to canter, she posted a video of herself riding an obviously uncomfortable horse. I told her the reason she was having issues was because she was too heavy for the horse (which was blatantly obvious) She said she was only 125kg's

'Only' 125 kgs is over 19 stone.

 

[ycbm]

the flippin organizations who run comps should be weighing people!

everyone knows people are larger these days, not necessarily fat just bigger overall

and all those judging dressage need to up their game, get em weighed and mark down a lot of the bad riding

But you need to weigh the horse as well and have a vet say how much they think the horse is over, and in rare cases under, a fit condition score.
.

 

[sbloom]

I wonder how we'd judge suitable weights here, the befores and afters? How much % difference might there be from one to the other? (sorry for German link, is safe, must be my VPN!) Before and after rehab:

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and before and after better saddle (along the lines I'm talking about, loading the horse well, optimising the skeleton of both):

 

[rabatsa]

Maye if the term riding light disappeared and instead the term riding heavy became the norm, more people would take notice of rider weight.

So you either ride normal or ride heavy but no one rides light.