Panorama tonight - racing industry and slaughterhouses

meleeka

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Did anyone else watch? It was definitely shocking and did not put Irish racing in a good light.

*DONT READ THE NEXT BIT IF SQUEAMISH

I do have a question and wonder if anyone knows (i’m obviously not about to google!). Why does the knacker man use a rifle as opposed to a pistol? It looked an awfully clumsy way to do it (they didn’t show the actual deed, just the build up to it and he was seen holding the rifle one handed).
 

TheProdigal

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Although I think you make some good points in your post, saying that racing is victimised when its the largest industry and has the most amount of money invested in it, it is run by an institution which controls just about every aspect of how horses used on the course and who trains them, and makes a lot of money from it, can not really be compared to the over breeding of feral ponies.

The race course is the glossy show case, but it is an industry that makes millions off practices that are often not in the best interest of animal welfare. This starts from when they are born, there are are suppliers of foster mares, where mares are put in foal, in the old days her foal would be shot, so she could provide milk for a TB foal, now their foals are often weaned very early and brought up in groups. Some mares their whole reproductive life is having a foal, to have it taken away.

'2-Year-Old: A Colt, Filly or Gelding in its third calendar year of life (which commences January 1 of the year following its birth).'
http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?Page=tjcRuleBook#three
Many horses in training are very young, any morning at the start of the years you will see young horses go out on exercise that in any other situation it would be all over FB and the RSPCA would be called. There is an idea that these horses win more the younger they are put in training, but having seen how they are stabled and having had one off the track this is can not good for their long term mental wellbeing.
There is an advantage of racing them young, so they can hopefully win enough by the time they are four to come off the track and make money at stud, quick turn over.

The Jockey Club has a lot of money and power, but is run by often a very backward thinking elite, and has a lot of control. I have been around most of the stables in Newmarket, from the very small ones, to the ones outside owned by the sheiks, it's a very ring fenced world, and if they wanted to improve horse welfare in general, and promote ethical treatment of TB's at the end of their career in a practical way, they could do so. Its not like they do not know there is a problem, sometimes yearlings are left at the sales, because its would cost more than the foal is worth to take them home, the JC has a system to remove unwanted horses.
I am not anti-racing, but the more you know about some of the practices that take place, it does make you question people motives, and attitudes.
 

Goldenstar

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My god the grey he won over 100k someone should have been looking out for him .
Racing can stop this anytime they choose they simply arrange for all horses who run under rules are signed out before they do so.
The chances of these lame racehorses having never had a sachet of Bute are about zero .
Horses within the EU have to be traded under EU rules we however have no obligation to import any live horses for slaughter we should just stop it full stop .
 

luckyoldme

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Love how it was shocking news to owners and trainers how the horses ended up.
Anyone at all who has had even the tiniest smallest link to racing knows this goes on .
Every time you hear them talk of how well their horses are cared for you think 'aye right...till the last race'
None of those people have the balls to own their own actions. All they see is money
 

palo1

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And why are they featuring coloured horses. Uurgh.

The visuals of horses clearly not TB was a bit of an irritant but it signals a kind of poor quality programme making which is really frustrating. If Panorama are going to make serious programmes about important issues, they have to get that sort of stuff right. It's an absolute fundamental of successful visual/media communication. It's not as if there is a shortage of ex race-horses that they could use in the filming. It doesn't help the programme one bit. :(
 

meleeka

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The visuals of horses clearly not TB was a bit of an irritant but it signals a kind of poor quality programme making which is really frustrating. If Panorama are going to make serious programmes about important issues, they have to get that sort of stuff right. It's an absolute fundamental of successful visual/media communication. It's not as if there is a shortage of ex race-horses that they could use in the filming. It doesn't help the programme one bit. :(
I’m sure the general public wouldn’t have even picked in on the fact they weren’t ex-racehorses. It doesn’t alter the message of the programme.
 

Zuzan

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I thought it was pretty balanced... I just find it very sad that we can't have horse sport without a "darkside" .. why oh why can't people act ethically and consideratly of horses .. whether it's in the training / insistence on competing too young horses or human dispatch of horses that cannot be rehomed / rehabilitated .. There are times I just feel ashamed of being a horsewoman.

It beggars belief that the racing / horse sport industry will not acknowledge and properly address it's failings in a world that is rightly far more questioning of welfare aspects and in our knowledge of sentience of other animals.
 

Zuzan

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Well yes, there is much to be ashamed of in relation to our treatment, attitudes and understanding of animals :( That doesn't mean that those things aren't deeply entangled with structures and ways of doing things that would be very difficult to simply eradicate. Attitude change needs to be systemic though and whilst people earn their livelihoods and base their lives around something, systemic change will be difficult. It's a bit of a curveball so bear with me but in countries and cultures where animals are NOT used for entertainment, food or economics they don't always fare better according to our cultural standards. Even where the life of animals is considered absolutely sacred, for example in Jainism where the principle of 'non-injury' is practised quite fundamentally, the lives of animals as we understand them here in the UK are not necessarily 'better'. It is a difficult subject. If you had ever visited a Jain animal hospice or sanctuary it would probably cause you to question some of the underlying views you may hold. It certainly did for me. But it is difficult and probably unhelpful to try to apply other standards and philosophical viewpoints to this situation where there is a disconnect between what 'outside' viewers want to see and what some parts of the industry find appropriate and acceptable.

What gets me is the denial and the trying to sweep stuff under the proverbial carpet .. fudging etc .. Reform isn't easy but that doesn't mean it shouldn't tackled..
 

palo1

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I’m sure the general public wouldn’t have even picked in on the fact they weren’t ex-racehorses. It doesn’t alter the message of the programme.

Yes, you are right - an awful lot of people wouldn't even think about the colour of the horses in the programme BUT those people who need to take this seriously in order to push for change, i.e the racing industry will notice and will think that the quality of research etc is laughable because of these silly, cheap errors. It is about credibility for an informed audience and that does matter in terms of impact.
 

palo1

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What gets me is the denial and the trying to sweep stuff under the proverbial carpet .. fudging etc .. Reform isn't easy but that doesn't mean it shouldn't tackled..

Yes. That is hard to stomach, especially in view of the sums of money and the amount of large agencies involved in racing.
 

olop

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The guys that owned that grey horse are prolific owners in the jump racing game, I’m pretty sure they didn’t know there horse had ended up there.

Its a bit like an everyday owner selling there horse to someone who promises the horse a home for life, once changed hands you have no control over where that horse ends up unfortunately.

What I don’t get is why they don’t have them euthanised at home if they are unsuitable for rehoming, I take it it’s a money thing?
 

Abby-Lou

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Sadly I rather see a horse slaughtered than be suffering in pain out to grass or put an inexperienced horse owner in danger. What I didn't like was two horses been dispatched in same room. I couldn't make a judgment of shooting from a distance, as I did not see the animal shot, but if you think how some animals are killed in the wild ie Deer they are shot from a distance and they fall cleanly and quickly, so I hope this is the same for the horses. Greyhound racing is another industry which has a dark side after the career is over.
 
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Regardless of what the program actually contained even just the talk of it is ripping through racing like wildfire. I doubt you will find a racehorse sent to slaughter straight from a racing yard for a while now! The yards that do do this are going to have to be very careful about what they do with their horses now and this will be a good thing. It will hopefully bring those with less morals into line with those of us who do care for the entire future of our horses.

As has been said once sold out of racing we have no further control of the horses and their new owners can do what they please with them.
 
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Sadly I rather see a horse slaughtered than be suffering in pain out to grass or put an inexperienced horse owner in danger. What I didn't like was two horses been dispatched in same room. I couldn't make a judgment of shooting from a distance, as I did not see the animal shot, but if you think how some animals are killed in the wild ie Deer they are shot from a distance and they fall cleanly and quickly, so I hope this is the same for the horses. Greyhound racing is another industry which has a dark side after the career is over.

Still no need for the suffering these horses had to go through at the end - I am all for pts of horses if it is on humane grounds, but it should be done the decent way at home.
 

milliepops

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Did anyone else watch? It was definitely shocking and did not put Irish racing in a good light.

*DONT READ THE NEXT BIT IF SQUEAMISH

I do have a question and wonder if anyone knows (i’m obviously not about to google!). Why does the knacker man use a rifle as opposed to a pistol? It looked an awfully clumsy way to do it (they didn’t show the actual deed, just the build up to it and he was seen holding the rifle one handed).
Maybe because we don't have any handguns in this country. I agree its very unwieldy.
 

paddi22

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Regardless of what the program actually contained even just the talk of it is ripping through racing like wildfire. I doubt you will find a racehorse sent to slaughter straight from a racing yard for a while now! The yards that do do this are going to have to be very careful about what they do with their horses now and this will be a good thing. It will hopefully bring those with less morals into line with those of us who do care for the entire future of our horses.

As has been said once sold out of racing we have no further control of the horses and their new owners can do what they please with them.

I think this is an excuse used by an industry not honest enough to face up to the reality. Why do those horses magically end up there? and no-one in the racing industry thinks that having system that messes them up physically and psychologically at an immature age is to blame?

Everyone who works in racing is complicit. Friends of mine are grooms who adore the horses they work with. But at the end of the day the caring is what they are paid to do. and it's wages coming from an industry where they know horses are worked too young and too hard. so they are complicit in it too.
 

Abby-Lou

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Still no need for the suffering these horses had to go through at the end - I am all for pts of horses if it is on humane grounds, but it should be done the decent way at home.
I agree would be better without travel involved, but then we they have to consider the end product meat and that would not travel well long distance.
 
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