Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

We have a 17.2 Shire X who was EVIL when we got him.

Bridle him? Not a chance...he had been doped....and we found out later the previous owners had to twitch him on his lip AND ears and he was rammed into a corner...

You know what? 9 years later, not a bother to bridle at all, and has been for the last 8 years....it took time, but we got there....

PATIENCE.

He learnt to trust us. This once-was-horrid horse is now the best mannered beastie on our yard....


No fancy tricks, rope-twirling or stick-waving for us.
 
Loving the fact that someone on that fb link has said that us HHO Parelli haters don't make for nice reading ..... lmao. :D
 
If people did but do a bit of independent thinking, parelli would be nothing but an empty hyped up trade stand at shows.

I am truly shocked by what is reported to have happened, especially after seeing the quote from pat about "twitching etc is akin to rape and i would never use that". Cough cough Mr P. :mad:

Agree with others that the horse needed time and gentle, firm, consistant handling. Not tied up twitched hobbled and forced. Where is the dignity to preserve Pat, from the second you got the gum line twitch out.

I'm also interested to know what was used as the gumline twitch, as I have seen another supposedly natural horseman use a metal chain - can you imagine how much pain that would cause?!

I think their statement release is absolutely an attempt to justify a disgusting act.

I would put seriously high money on the fact that if it were Monty Roberts doing the demo trying to get the horse to accept a bridle, this thread would be non-existant or singing his praises. If Robert Whittaker has the money to splash out on expensive "experts," he should have gone to him.
 
Poor horse!!! Mine was very head shy I would never think of doing it this way!!! What a load of tosh!!!! Time and loads of patince sp?? Anyone find the cilp yet?? Im not surpise that the head groom about to walk out I think I would have to held back otherwise he would of got hit and told to bugger off!!!!!!!
 
I want to see this before I say too much, but my first thoughts are dammit, here go Parelli giving the whole "nh" movement a bad name again.
It's patronising to assume that people don't understand what they are seeing, sometimes fresh eyes see the truth. As an ex-Parelli student all I can say is, whatever happened to "Take the time it takes"?
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I never realised that meant tying the horse down, using a gumline as a twitch and abusing the creature for 2 hours.
 
Just wanted to add, when pat says of those who were upset by what they saw; "We all have nothing to worry about except misunderstanding." - I''ve seen parelli several unortunate times, and each time I have "Misundestood" the logic behind it. I waited an hour once to be told WHY they were winding foals up in 12ft lines (nope, your guess is still as good as mine). And I'm someone who likes natural horsemanship/groundwork/call it what you will. If your viewers consistently can't understand why you are doing something that is considered extreme or unusual, surely you should explain yourself better (or at all?).
 
Naturally said:
Just wanted to add, when pat says of those who were upset by what they saw; "We all have nothing to worry about except misunderstanding." - I''ve seen parelli several unortunate times, and each time I have "Misundestood" the logic behind it. I waited an hour once to be told WHY they were winding foals up in 12ft lines (nope, your guess is still as good as mine). And I'm someone who likes natural horsemanship/groundwork/call it what you will. If your viewers consistently can't understand why you are doing something that is considered extreme or unusual, surely you should explain yourself better (or at all?).
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Indeed.

Both times I've seen one of his displays (I didn't last very long through either of them) he began by pointing out how cruel anyone who competes their horses is (dressage/jumping/eventing/showing/barrel racing etc) immediately getting on side everyone who doesn't or cannot do those things. It seems this remains his following; I've never once met a successul horse person in any of those fields who has a moment to consider Pat Parelli and his commercialised tripe. Well, until now that is - Robert Whitaker has surprised me! I suspect there was a financial agreement involved, though.
 
Munchkin said:
I've never once met a successul horse person in any of those fields who has a moment to consider Pat Parelli and his commercialised tripe.
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The O'Connors - USA Eventing - were Parelli exponents a few years ago, I remember getting a free DVD with one of the horse magazines. Don't know if they still are though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImzUgnhV-EU
 
Munchkin, me thinks you have hit nail on head, pity it was not PP though, looks as if money raised its ugly head yet again, and all you knowledgeable HH people, do the whittakers own Catwalk, and if not, I wonder what the owner thinks.....and also more bad publicity for show-jumping.....
 
I suppose Ray Hunt wouldn't be considered a success on H+H forum. Although, were he still around, I'm not sure what he'd have had to say about this.
Ray Hunt and Carl Hester took part in the annual conference, during the time when UK Parelli was temporarily Equine Ethology.
 
From the Parelli FB page:

Parelli Natural Horsemanship
Parelli Natural Horsemanship Guess what?! TOP international event rider, Georgie Spence will be having a lesson with Linda Parelli as part of Savvy Club Sunday at the Royal Festival of the Horse this weekend. More information on Tumblr!

Hmmmm
 
Munchkin said:
I'm sorry Roo but that's not Parelli, it's riding bridleless, which a lot of people can do... in fact most people who have learnt to ride correctly using their leg and seat rather than relying on their hands.
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Yes - but it's at a Parelli conference, and the only clip I could find online. There was a lot more 'Parelli' stuff on the DVD.

I completely agree with everything you say on the thread, by the way, I am not pro-parelli by any means!
 
Nicoleak0 said:
From the Parelli FB page:

Parelli Natural Horsemanship
Parelli Natural Horsemanship Guess what?! TOP international event rider, Georgie Spence will be having a lesson with Linda Parelli as part of Savvy Club Sunday at the Royal Festival of the Horse this weekend. More information on Tumblr!

Hmmmm
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Am I the only one who has a sudden urge to go to the Festival of the Horse tomorrow?
 
I can't imagine what justification there will be for what sounds to have been more than a very simple and light mechanical restraint. Even so, I am trying hard to see both sides and give him the benefit of the doubt. I really do wish I could see what happened and not merely be swayed by second-hand reports and other's interpretations. All of me wants this to be blown out of all proportion.

I am not a fan of any twitching but have seen the nose version work on one animal as I think it is meant to - inducing an almost instant 'snooze'. It was actually used on veterinary instruction pending his arrival, to take the edge off a colic. It wouldn't have worked with any of mine who fight even the idea of it. That PP did it in this particular case makes me very uneasy indeed.

I wonder if he might go and learn how to do Endospink's full tap (I believe you can buy the DVD of it, Mr P) and relax Catwalk that way instead...
 
Wasn't there but if it was as described then it makes me wonder what these demonstrations are for? 'Things to try at home' maybe??!! Who are they aimed at?

Presuming that many Parelli enthusiasts are novices - how on earth is it right to demonstrate twitching and hobbling?

I just don't get it. Money, money , money...that's all it's about.
 
Did anyone see them work with Rob's horse at the British Open?

ETA: what Robert wrote in his British Open blog:

In between my classes today I took Rooney down to the Parelli Zone. He can be a bit nervous sometimes so my mate James Robert, who practices Parelli training methods, tried some “natural horsemanship” on him. I must say it does seem to have improved him and he seems better already although obviously nothing is fixed overnight! Very interesting to see this work in action


Robert won't continue to let PP work on his horses if he objected to it, so it will be interesting to see whether he does.
 
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I have never been a great fan of parelli but you know I don't know a huge amount about it but I go with my gut instinct and it makes me uncomfortable. I've seen a few of their demos at shows, funny that they say it's natural and we ride with no saddle or bridles yet the rider I saw was wearing spurs!

I've just watched the clip with linda parelli and the blind horse and it disgusts me, what did they actually want the poor thing to do! It seemed to me that the reason it was moving away all the time was cause she was flinging the rope at it's constantly!!

In my opinion these techniques that they use to I'm sorry dominate horses, in my words that's what it is, is due to them being **** horse people and scared of the animals hence using aggressive techniques.

Just a shame they've got a band of brain washed people sucked in and even more of a shame for the poor horses that have to put up with it, just shows how passive horses really are cause it that was me on the other end of that rope i'd being doing more than that poor mare!!
 
I haven't read all the posts as there are so any and they say roughly the same thing so do excuse me if I repeat anything already said.

I do know that the H&H site is anti Parelli to start with so I was very interested to see what views where given on the demo yesterday evening.

I have been using PNH for 7 years now and have always gained postive and remarkable results.
My YO and others have even commentated at how well behaved and happy my horses are. However I don't stick to PNH solely, I use whatever works for my horses giving them the happy life they deserve.
I went along to the evening PNH demo yesterday evening and it starteed in the usual way that I have seen countless times but I know they need to do all the usual intro's for people new to Parelli.

Anyway.. in came Catwalk,, I beautiful 7 yr old Stallion, he was calm and inquisitive and considering he had just been with Robert 8 weeks then put into this demo I thought he coped brilliantly.

Pat talked as he walked around the arena but he isn't just ambling around, if Catwalk went too far ahead Pat changed direction so that he was always the leader and Catwalk followed. It also give Catwalk the opportunity to absorb the surroundings and noises.

Pat spent time getting Catwalk used to being handled around his ears, eyes, head and muzzle.
He tied Catwalks leg up to that he was unable to place it down, it doesn't stop Catwalk moving around as someone here stated but it does make it more difficult and yes when Catwalk frst tried to move he went down on the tied leg but it did not distress him. Pat showed how he could quickly release the line if needed to for safety.

However I did not think there was anything natural about doing this and was disappointed to see it being carried out.

The saddle pad, this was brought in and used to desensitize Catwalk to having something placed over his head. This is not cruel, in fact it was nice to see a change in Catwalk, he softened and relaxed and was quite happy for the pad to go over his head.

This to me is the point where Pat should have Stopped..

Instead he carried on, putting his string into Catwalks mouth over his top gum was to me cruel, there was no need for this and again not natural in the slightest, I was appalled to see Monty Roberts use a similar technique which he calls a "Bucking Stap" and even more appalled to see Pat do this. A second line at one stage was put on Catwalk leg and I thought Pat would have explained why he did but whether I missed it I don't know but I never heard any explanation.

I can't remember at what point the string went into Catwalks mouth but the demo started at 7pm with talking for approx 30min, then Catwalk came in around 7.30pm approx. I left at 9.40pm and it was still going on. My mate said as I left Linda was going into the arena but I can't comment as I never saw what happened.

By the time my mate and I left we could only witrness Catwalk getting more distressed and fighting Pat more. On my journey home I said to me mate "I understand and follow PNH and I was shocked to see what went on, what on earth are those who watched PNH for the first time going to think and I am looking forward to hearing comments on H&H which I know there will be"

So for those that were disgusted with yesterdays performance I totally agree with you.

I am not there today (Sat) but I am back Sunday so it will be interesting to see if there is any improvement.

Now to see what was said on the Savvy Forum
 
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Sounds horrific :( Why did Linda have her hands over her face? Was that because she couldn't stand what she was seeing?

I really don't understand what Parelli is meant to achieve, they give natural horsemanship a bad name :(
 
Supertrooper said:
Just a shame they've got a band of brain washed people sucked in and even more of a shame for the poor horses that have to put up with it, just shows how passive horses really are cause it that was me on the other end of that rope i'd being doing more than that poor mare!!
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Careful your branding people here, I find what you said offensive, I follow PHN and other methods and I am certainly NOT brain washed. There is a lot of abuse to horses from those such as aggressive showjumpers, dressage riders and eventers, who after all whip, kick, use spurs over flex, over use gadgets, put spike on poles in practice to make horses lift their legs blah blah, Yet thousands o fpeople follow these sports, are they too brain washed?

Not all people who follow PNH are brain washed, some yes lol but not all of us
 
I was literally eating a bag of popcorn whilst reading upto page 8 I think :D

All I have to say is...
The only REAL NH I know about is the good ol' native american indians.

All this other drivle is just over-rated, over publicised horse sense...without the sense.
I can't believe such a well known rider like RW handed any one of his horses over to this shame of a trainer. Yet another rider who's lost 100% of my respect.

That endospink guy on youtube is quite something though, loving the way he doesn't call himself a NH trainer xD amen, we need more people like him lol.

*nom nom sweet popcorn ^^*
 
KS1 said:
Careful your branding people here, I find what you said offensive, I follow PHN and other methods and I am certainly NOT brain washed. There is a lot of abuse to horses from those such as aggressive showjumpers, dressage riders and eventers, who after all whip, kick, use spurs over flex, over use gadgets, put spike on poles in practice to make horses lift their legs blah blah, Yet thousands of people follow these sports, are they too brain washed?
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No, because they are aware that certain practitioners of all sports act with cruelty. Parelli sells itself on how natural and kind it is, when clearly, it's not.
 
KS1 said:
I haven't read all the posts as there are so any and they say roughly the same thing so do excuse me if I repeat anything already said.

I do know that the H&H site is anti Parelli to start with so I was very interested to see what views where given on the demo yesterday evening.

I have been using PNH for 7 years now and have always gained postive and remarkable results.
My YO and others have even commentated at how well behaved and happy my horses are. However I don't stick to PNH solely, I use whatever works for my horses giving them the happy life they deserve.
I went along to the evening PNH demo yesterday evening and it starteed in the usual way that I have seen countless times but I know they need to do all the usual intro's for people new to Parelli.

Anyway.. in came Catwalk,, I beautiful 7 yr old Stallion, he was calm and inquisitive and considering he had just been with Robert 8 weeks then put into this demo I thought he coped brilliantly.

Pat talked as he walked around the arena but he isn't just ambling around, if Catwalk went too far ahead Pat changed direction so that he was always the leader and Catwalk followed. It also give Catwalk the opportunity to absorb the surroundings and noises.

Pat spent time getting Catwalk used to being handled around his ears, eyes, head and muzzle. Yep, happy with all that.

He tied Catwalks leg up to that he was unable to place it down, it doesn't stop Catwalk moving around as someone here stated but it does make it more difficult and yes when Catwalk frst tried to move he went down on the tied leg but it did not distress him. Pat showed how he could quickly release the line if needed to for safety.Hmmmm, not sure, now

However I did not think there was anything natural about doing this and was disappointed to see it being carried out.

The saddle pad, this was brought in and used to desensitize Catwalk to having something placed over his head. This is not cruel, in fact it was nice to see a change in Catwalk, he softened and relaxed and was quite happy for the pad to go over his head.

This to me is the point where Pat should have Stopped..Yes! Absolutely

Instead he carried on, putting his string into Catwalks mouth over his top gum was to me cruel, there was no need for this and again not natural in the slightest, I was appalled to see Monty Roberts use a similar technique which he calls a "Bucking Stap" and even more appalled to see Pat do this. A second line at one stage was put on Catwalk leg and I thought Pat would have explained why he did but whether I missed it I don't know but I never heard any explanation.

I can't remember at what point the string went into Catwalks mouth but the demo started at 7pm with talking for approx 30min, then Catwalk came in around 7.30pm approx. I left at 9.40pm and it was still going on. My mate said as I left Linda was going into the arena but I can't comment as I never saw what happened.

By the time my mate and I left we could only witrness Catwalk getting more distressed and fighting Pat more. On my journey home I said to me mate "I understand and follow PNH and I was shocked to see what went on, what on earth are those who watched PNH for the first time going to think and I am looking forward to hearing comments on H&H which I know there will be"

So for those that were disgusted with yesterdays performance I totally agree with you.
Which is the way I am leaning.
I am not there today (Sat) but I am back Sunday so it will be interesting to see if there is any improvement.

Now to see what was said on the Savvy Forum
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Thank you for the calm and rational report. It appears to be pretty much what I expected.
 
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