Parelli Demo on robert Whittakers stallion Stonleigh Friday 9th...Anybody else bside

I have read this with interest but not posted until now.

Thanks to those who uploaded videos of the actual event onto YouTube it was amazing to watch - and not in a good way.

I have always been ambivalent about Parelli, a friend I respect very much uses the games with her retired hunter and they seem to enjoy it. I also say Linda Parelli do a good ridden demo once with some good tips on introducing some exercises.

My own view is no one person can be a master of horses and purport to have all the answers - if only because anyone who thinks they know that much about horses is deluded.

I am astounded that they chose to use those techniques on an expensive competition horse. They are lucky it didn't seriously injure itself and ruin its competition and stud careers. Can you imagine if it had been injured, what Parelli spin would that have gathered?

Apart from the stupidity of not wearing a hard hat and gloves the pair in the video (Pat and Linda I presume) do make themselves look very amatuer with their handling of the horse, my non horsey parents could do better swinging around on the end of a line.

It doesn't inspire my confidence in their ability to display humane training methods for problem horses. Surely you approach a problem horse with a range of options to try not just use more and extreme force each time you are unsuccessful.

Of course this discussion has had one benefit - all the new HHO members who have joined to add comments. Welcome aboard!!
 
Dirtymare said:
My question is - why would, someone who aspires to all things natural and doing everything that is kind to the horse etc, why would he use such force and brutality in front of a huge crowd??
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Because the man is deluded enough to believe in his own self importance, and that is a very dangerous thing!
It means that he honestly does not see the wrong in what he does, but it is still horrific abuse of what is an animal with fears and feelings.
 
brighteyes said:
Yes, if he had had the ability to see that the horse had not actually said OK, I get this, I'll be OK. Apparently PP would also have quit there had he known what would have happened. He wasn't the only one to have been lulled into thinking the job was nearly done either.

To have let the stallion end on the note which followed next, most unpredictably or expectedly, would have meant the stallion would then have said no a whole lot more vociferously. I think, to his own dismay, PP had no option but carry on using every method in his NH book to get the stallion to be prepared to listen. Which he clearly was refusing to even consider.
whatever the reasoning, I think it's extremely brave and/or stupid to wrap (yes, wrap) a rope around an expensive horse's cannon and yank it, frankly, I think you need to be deranged to do so. The possible injuries are unthinkable and quite possible career and life threatening. And that is quite apart from what I think of this in the realms of acceptable treatment, causing distress and ignoring welfare.

Unfortunate, yes, but I think he had to finish what he started.
Ever heard of not entering a battle you can't win?

As for the horse being under the spotlights - er, he showjumps, on his own, in an arena full of bizarre-looking fences?
I don't have a problem with the spotlights, doing things like that in PUBLIC though is a professional suicide.

I want to see the whole thing, narrated by PP and not on wobbly cameraphones, heavily edited by personal viewpoints. Please.
Somehow, I don't think it will ever happen.
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and some extra words;)
 
I wonder if the HH mag is going to be able to ignore this thread or do you think we will be seeing some sort of investigation in to this "Demo" in the next issue?
 
Binkybex said:
I wonder if the HH mag is going to be able to ignore this thread or do you think we will be seeing some sort of investigation in to this "Demo" in the next issue?
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Will be interesting to see wont it...?

Is this one of the longest threads ever now? :D
 
I tried to stop the demo as the abuse made me so mad i couldn't stop shaking. The worse thing is that Parelli keeps going the next day in a private arena when the vet said the horse was unfit. He has a 45ft line round it's neck , which is like razor wire and a rope in Catwalks already damaged mouth. All against vet advice. That must be prosecutable. That horse showed no aggression at any point. Look at the bit where ( Pat shares lunch with the horse) The rope is still attached and lying on the ground, having been used to exert yet more force.
 
Oh gosh now that the video has been mentioned once again all I can picture is Pat and Linda fumbling around around like amatuers both pulling on the horse and I understand more now why he reared.

He reared not through abuse, not through being scared, not because he was aggressive but simply because he thought "Get me out of here" when he reared and came back down he was so calm, jeez what a good horse to forgive so quickly and easily. Both my lads tied with rope or not would have been out of there.

I notice at one point Pat drops his hold, bends over with his back to Catwalk, Linda is hanging onto the 22ft line and looks unsure what to do. Then Pat goes over to Catwalk and start fumbling with something, was it the gum line again?

I hate having these thoughts but its there on video and there is no "THINK" I saw, I know what I am seeing and it's not pretty.

I feel so sad that this has come about, I was at the Conference in 2009 and loved every part of it and this has just tore up what I believed in into a million pieces pieces that is gonna be very difficult to put back together.

I'll still do Parelli with my horses as there is a lot of good in it but I'll also mix it with other horsemanship idea's from the likes of Mark Rashid, Ken Faulkener, Shane Borland and of course traditional riding, in other words I will take what I need that benefits my horse at the time.
 
I'm sorry but the horse's value doesn't have any bearing on its treatment. Quite frankly I'm shocked.

Following on from another discussion, someone has posted this link to further examples of highly questionable treatment of horses at the hands of these people. This time a half blind horse and for the life of me, I cannot see any reason that warrants the treatment it receives.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80925308

If any one of us saw this type of behaviour in the street, we would report it.

I think it's so, so sad that people are making money out from this.
 
yaddowshad said:
How long are we going to keep listening to mouthy Americans for advice on horsemanship????
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One of my best friends is an American trainer here, and she DOESN'T endorse Parelli, she had her husband work with babies and have GREAT success.....patience and kindness are their tools in breaking youngters...

Please don't make sweeping statements.
 
Tannis said:
I'm sorry but the horse's value doesn't have any bearing on its treatment. Quite frankly I'm shocked.
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Well, I brought up the value of the horse for certain reasons.
For me, and from what you are saying, for you as well, the treatment of said horse was cruel - therefore the value is irrelevant, it is a living being and we don't want to cause suffering. However, PP obviously doesn't consider the treatment cruel. So, if you think of risking injury that would end a horse's career, surely it is much more stupid (from financial/compensation point of view) to threaten a career of Catwalk than to threaten a career of a riding school pony! The owner will sue you for damages - you could probably stand £2k for a RS pony, but a six figure (or even 7) sum for Catwalk might cripple your finances and put YOUR career in jeopardy.

See my point here?
 
A horse's value has no bearing on this level of treatment - however it does have a bearing on the high profile nature of any injuries and the owners ability and motivation to sue and the amount they will be suing for.
 
Bramley said:
I confronted both Pat Parelli and Robert Whittaker and saw the cut caused by the gum line first hand. I would be more than happy to give evidence if a prossecution was taken up by any welfare body. As i am sure the Festival of the Horse vet would be.
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Bramley, may I ask exactly where the cut you saw was - in the corner(s) of the mouth, ie. next the horse's lip, or inside the mouth? It's not that I don't believe you - I'm just trying to get a clear picture in my mind.
 
Ok so havent read ALL of these posts but having now seen the vid.... a few things strike me
1) why did the whittakers buy a horse that was so difficult to bridle? knock down price perhaps
2) where were they when this eejit of a man was trying to haul their "killer" (OMG that is the funniest thing I have read on this) horse to the ground?
3) with all their obvious years of horsemanship why didnt they jump in and stop it......

If Im going over old ground do apolagise- difficult to find in 74 pages!!
 
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LucyPriory said:
But it has just occurred to me - if Catwalk is in the top 3 difficult for the great Mr P then perhaps he just ain't all that experienced after all.....
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Or no-one with a TRULY difficult (or savage) horse sends it to him! :D

I'm limited to judging the horse on the video I've seen - but on that basis Catwalk MIGHT have just made it into my top10! And let's face it, surely he can't have been THAT bad if sold a matter of a couple of months ago for £200,000!! OR does RW buy £200,000 horse by mail order?
 
Martlin and Suze369

Agree with you both. I am quite frankly sickened by what I've seen and it shouldn't be allowed to happen to any horse whatever the value but take your point that to do it to such a high value horse just epitomises this man's extreme arrogance and stupidity.

I've never really had much of an opinion on Parelli, I dismissed it as circus tricks but harmless. But my opinion has completely changed since seeing this and watching all the videos that have been posted on here (many thanks to the people who have posted).

We have stallions, mares, geldings, veterans, foals, youngstock, performance horses, plods and pets. I also have a young homebred stallion who was badly abused by a producer. I knew there was no quick fix and it's taken me nearly 4 years of painstaking effort to rebuild the trust and confidence we used to have. And yes, my stallion really did try to kill me and I carry the scars and crushed bones from it. There is no quick fix. It's not something that can be miraculously "mended" in a show ring. And that's what I have come to hate about this. People are making money out of setting false expectations and a lot of horses are going to be irreparably damaged (physically and emotionally) because inexperienced people will watch and think they can make miracles happen in a matter of hours.

My stallion and I now have back the bond and love that we used to have and each of us respects the other and it makes me cry nearly every day because it's so rewarding. But it wasn't achieved overnight. At one point I actually had to consider having him destroyed because he became a danger to himself and others. But I believed in him and I believed in time and patience. And if anyone came near my boy with a gum twitch and a length of rope, I'd use the twitch on their gonads and use the rope to string them from the nearest tree!

I am truly, truly sickened by this. The abuse to my boy happened in private but for goodness sake these people are charging trusting people so they can watch horses being abused. And it IS abuse.
 
lexiedhb said:
1) why did the whittakers buy a horse that was so difficult to bridle? knock down price perhaps
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TBF, there are a hell of a lot of 'quirky' or temperamental horses out there at top level that you can 'put up with' solely for the fact of knowing you can go round and have a good shot at whatever class you do. for a multi£ price tag horse which training or potential for such high level, one quirk or 'bad point' about it won't be enough for it to be automatically dismissed from being bought or produced for that level if it can still get round the course/etc and earn money...so for all those comments on the FB page saying that it's 'another 200k horse saved from the knackers' are completely diluded statements to make if they think just because it has one major issue like that, that it would be automatically useless for it's purpose!
 
skint1 said:
Do horses purposely set out to kill people, as in, was Catwalk thinking "I'm gonna choke that fella on his own mustache if he comes near me again!" or is it a case of the horse acting out of fear or under the influence of hormones and a person being in the wrong place/wrong time?
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The VERY odd stallion DOES set out to kill people (usually because he's learned through bitter experience than people are nasty ba*tards who will abuse him!

But to my mind, Catwalk was terribly confused. Stallions KNOW their routine - there is a time and a place for everything. His bridle is put on inthe stable; in a floodlit arena he showjumps! They also NEED to build up a relationship with the person who handles/trains them - a relationship built on trust!

So this demo failed on two counts: strange behaviour from a strange man! Stallion is naturally suspicious and hasn't a CLUE what strange man wants. For all Catwalk knows, the strange man is pickinga fight and wants to kill him. Under the circumstances, his behaviour was quite restrained!
 
Binky01 said:
TBF, there are a hell of a lot of 'quirky' or temperamental horses out there at top level that you can 'put up with' solely for the fact of knowing you can go round and have a good shot at whatever class you do. for a multi£ price tag horse which training or potential for such high level, one quirk or 'bad point' about it won't be enough for it to be automatically dismissed from being bought or produced for that level if it can still get round the course/etc and earn money...so for all those comments on the FB page saying that it's 'another 200k horse saved from the knackers' are completely diluded statements to make if they think just because it has one major issue like that, that it would be automatically useless for it's purpose!
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Now this I know- I dodnt think for one minute that this issue would stop this horse competing at top level---- was just wondering if they felt that getting the horse for the right price, they could using this nonsense "cure" the horse of this...... was just surprised at horsemen at the top of their game would even consider it-- (not the purchase, the "method" of curing)

and to be fair the horse cant be completely unable to be bridled, I mean Im sure hes ridden, in a bridle LOL

hatever happened to taking the bridle apart and putting it back together on the horse for nags with "head touching" issues?
 
angelish said:
i have just had a look at the link to parelli facebook page

i don't wish to upset any followers as im sure there are some normal sensible people some were among you all.
iv'e never had a great interest in parelli ,negatively or other wise but i have to say this post as well as the facebook page has changed my mind.

i now think they are all completely barking mad !!!
weather it is good for the horse or not the people on there are behaving like they belong to some sort of cult
are they all brainwashed or something ,if i am unlucky enough to bump into a parelli follower in future outings i shall be running for the hills
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Not a PP person at all,but please don't!
Their are some nice normal ones out there who choose Parelli to work through a certain problem/give them something constructive to do while off riding for one reason or another.

I once had the pleasure of a wonderfull YO who was highly qualified with the BHS and used that as default,but also dabbled and read everything they could from other methods-the best of both worlds was found when a large dolop of logic was aplied ;)
 
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