Snowfilly
Well-Known Member
The winner was running away with it, he was miles clear. Hermes was second / third and running comfortably within himself, nothing to indicate a problem at all.
Racing this weekend
- Thread starter Gamebird
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The winner was running away with it, he was miles clear. Hermes was second / third and running comfortably within himself, nothing to indicate a problem at all.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Think the point was what's the pointing of continuing to race is the horse if 13 lengths off the front (as per the official comments on RP, as below:
Raced in second, chased clear leader after 6th, not fluent 8th, still plenty to do 3 out, 13 lengths down when fell 2 out
bonny
Well-Known Member
So everybody bar the leader should just stop ?
teapot
Well-Known Member
No. More a question of depending on how x horse is running - well, tired, drifting backwards, where is the point between pulling up and saving the horse for another day, or keeping going... which I think was @Crazy_cat_lady's point.
All depends on what's actually going on in said race.
nagblagger
Well-Known Member
I've just watched the replay, he doesn't look to be struggling.
The winner was way in front most of the race so slightly irrelevant.
The winner was way in front most of the race so slightly irrelevant.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Hermes Allen was going ok, although maybe not jumping as well as the leader. But no one was, Nickle Back was astounding. Harry (and all the other jockeys) thought he’d run out of puff, so did everyone but he kept on like a good ‘un.
No need for anyone to have pulled up.
No need for anyone to have pulled up.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that. They are still way more relaxed about it than over here and I thought the constant raised above the shoulder/arm down whacking was an ugly sight. (In the handicap on ITV).
nagblagger
Well-Known Member
Amazing race with the loose horse at that fence that possibly cost saceur coeuir the win.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
As said, I didn't see the race hence why I was asking for clarity as to whether the leader was miles clear and the rest were competing for second, or if there were a group clear and he was behind that and looking at a 4th place at best for example
The 2 different scenarios would influence whether he should pull up and as @teapot said, how he was going at the time.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I think losing punters like to have an opinion on the betting sites.
teapot
Well-Known Member
I think losing punters like to have an opinion on the betting sites.
It's the formal write up on the Racing Post results card, not just punters voicing their opinions. Imagine what a racing anti will think seeing 'horse 13 lengths down' to then find said horse had a fatal fall.
Link here: https://www.racingpost.com/results/54/sandown/2024-02-03/858199
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Yes, as Teapot said it was the RP write up, if it had "13 lengths down in 2nd" rather than just "13 lengths down" I wouldn't have needed to ask the question.
"13 lengths down" doesn't read great, and could mean anything from 13 lengths off all others still going or it could have meant what it turns out it actually meant that the leader was so far clear everyone else was 13 lengths down
I don't bet, I only do the itv 7 as it's free. I have no interest in betting sites.
"13 lengths down" doesn't read great, and could mean anything from 13 lengths off all others still going or it could have meant what it turns out it actually meant that the leader was so far clear everyone else was 13 lengths down
I don't bet, I only do the itv 7 as it's free. I have no interest in betting sites.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Having seen the race and replays I genuinely wonder if he had a heart attack as he jumped the fence seemed land OK then turned over and was absolutely still with no nerve twitches.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
When they break a neck they generally flail about so I agree, I wonder if that’s what it was. Very sad whatever, obviously.
nagblagger
Well-Known Member
That's what i thought - he had cleared the fence and landed.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I wasn’t criticising you in particular, but just saying there is an awful lot of jockey bashing every time a favourite loses.
Maybe watch the replay? Then you’ll see that the there was no cruelty involved, unless as Bonny said everyone pulled up.
Andie02
Well-Known Member
Agree with you there Clodagh, I commented at the time on the use of the whip by that jockey.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Exactly he landed fine took a stride and went down motionless.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Would I criticise a jockey for not winning - no, because I don't bet so couldn't care less who finishes where
Would I criticise a jockey for over use of the whip or continuing when hopelessly tailed off/on an exhausted horse? Yes because then you go down the route of animal welfare. People should be allowed to criticise something if it's animal welfare in question. I now realise this was NOT the case here, however there have been races where it HAS been.
However as suggested, while I would prefer not to re watch something where there was a fatal fall, I did look at the race, and if I were in Harry's position, yes I would have continued and horse looked fine and not in distress until his fall. Nor did he scramble over the jump, so no here I wouldn't question the jockey for continuing
As I said in my initial post, I didn't see the race, and based on the RP comments, I was led to question what happened. Now I've seen it (not a nice watch) I realise the lack of saying where he was at the time of being "13 lengths down" is what made it seem exaggerated.
I completely agree with you that whip use in Irish racing is not very nice to watch, due to the height of the stick. English racing has been much better to watch since the new rules came in. I personally would prefer no whip apart from for safety (eg swerving or going to run out)
Would I criticise a jockey for over use of the whip or continuing when hopelessly tailed off/on an exhausted horse? Yes because then you go down the route of animal welfare. People should be allowed to criticise something if it's animal welfare in question. I now realise this was NOT the case here, however there have been races where it HAS been.
However as suggested, while I would prefer not to re watch something where there was a fatal fall, I did look at the race, and if I were in Harry's position, yes I would have continued and horse looked fine and not in distress until his fall. Nor did he scramble over the jump, so no here I wouldn't question the jockey for continuing
As I said in my initial post, I didn't see the race, and based on the RP comments, I was led to question what happened. Now I've seen it (not a nice watch) I realise the lack of saying where he was at the time of being "13 lengths down" is what made it seem exaggerated.
I completely agree with you that whip use in Irish racing is not very nice to watch, due to the height of the stick. English racing has been much better to watch since the new rules came in. I personally would prefer no whip apart from for safety (eg swerving or going to run out)
Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
In another race the 4th horse of 4 runners was a long, long way back at one time but gained ground in the last furlong, then one of the leading three fell at the last fence, so the long time last ran on into third place, and was quite a lot closer at the end. So if the horse is still travelling and jumping strongly why should they pull up.
bonny
Well-Known Member
If you mean the Irish Gold cup then no way should any of them pull up.
tristars
Well-Known Member
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
Some horses are "one paced" if the others go off quicker that horse will race in last then as the others slow are then caught up and if they tire the one paced horse goes past them. Regular jockeys know the horse so know what it is capable of likewise the trainers. So as you say if travelling and jumping well why should they be pulled up!!
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Ballyburn impressive in Ireland, he’s got a low head carriage compared to some of his rivals.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
Really low wasn’t it. Easy win and for El Fabiolo.
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
I used to ride a RS cob who had a low head carriage like that, I found it very disconcerting when we were jumping even when it was only about 2ft, I can’t imagine jumping a chase fence on a horse like that!
I’m looking forward to seeing State Man in the Irish Champion Hurdle next.
humblepie
Well-Known Member
OH said Ballyburn knows the hurdle is there with his whiskers 
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
State Man!! I can’t see him getting anywhere near Constitution Hill at the festival but he’s such a cool horse 
bonny
Well-Known Member
With the added bonus that we get to see him runState Man!! I can’t see him getting anywhere near Constitution Hill at the festival but he’s such a cool horse
I think he can beat Constitution Hill ……possibly anyway.
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Awful breakdown there from the Elliott runner Absolute Notions 