Racing this weekend

[Rowreach]

We did try to keep this thread a celebration of racing rather than a hate thread. That would be nice.

Yeah but that's a hell of a lot of deaths for one weekend

 

[Clodagh]

Yeah but that's a hell of a lot of deaths for one weekend

It is, a terrible amount.

 

[Smitty]

I think death is better than sustained abuse such as the dressage horses mentioned earlier. Nobody wants them to die on the course but they are at least attended to very quickly.

 

[olop]

It would be interesting to look at the breeding of these horses suffering catastrophic leg injuries - there seems to be a huge number of flat bred horses going into jumping, did this use to be the case?

The jumpers now seem much lighter framed and delicate rather than the big burley steeplechasers of the past - are they being expected to do a job they haven't been designed for in the first instance?

While I watch the racing still, I could never be involved in ownership or any of these syndicates as id feel responsible if "my" horse got fatally injured in a race. On the other hand nor would I own a horse and send it to a pro, even vetted very carefully. Pippa Funnel would be one of the few possibilities

I would say it’s down to the flat genes as to why it happens so much.

If you look at photos of chasers/hurdlers from the 70’s and 80’s they were built like proper hunting horses and almost looked like Irish draught types. The jumping horses of today all look so fragile and I’m sure that has something to do it.

 

[photo_jo]

I think death is better than sustained abuse such as the dressage horses mentioned earlier. Nobody wants them to die on the course but they are at least attended to very quickly.

And the average racehorse (well NH anyway), has a much better life than a dressage horse, not only can they walk trot and canter with their head and necks where nature intended, but they go out in the field most days usually with a friend/s, have time off in the summer out 24/7 etc etc

 

[Smitty]

Dessie was quite "common" and I'm not sure he was 100% TB

Some did come up from flat though, Red Rum being a prime example.

Viking Flagship? Did he have flat roots?

 

[tristars]

dessie was a lovely horse, but with plenty of good strong flat bone, even when retired he looked fit, lots of bone below the knee and not top heavy.

but flat horses are bred for speed, horses that can jump well are generally bred to jump with the natural ability to get off the ground

 

[Maddie Moo]

I think the AQPS horses definitely have more substance about them eg: Sprinter Sacre or Elixir de Nutz plus they’ve shown they can race on terms and win against the pure TBs.

Going forward it would be nice to see more entire TBs competing in NH like they have in France, it would help expand the choice of NH stallions going forward but in reality I doubt that would happen. I‘m sure there was a colt / stallion running over jumps the other week in the UK but I can’t remember who it was!

 

[Clodagh]

I think the AQPS horses definitely have more substance about them eg: Sprinter Sacre or Elixir de Nutz plus they’ve shown they can race on terms and win against the pure TBs.

Going forward it would be nice to see more entire TBs competing in NH like they have in France, it would help expand the choice of NH stallions going forward but in reality I doubt that would happen. I‘m sure there was a colt / stallion running over jumps the other week in the UK but I can’t remember who it was!

He’s trained by Jane Williams. I’m having a blank on his name. She buys a lot of French breds and wants to recreate the French model of racing entires.

 

[Velcrobum]

I would say it’s down to the flat genes as to why it happens so much.

If you look at photos of chasers/hurdlers from the 70’s and 80’s they were built like proper hunting horses and almost looked like Irish draught types. The jumping horses of today all look so fragile and I’m sure that has something to do it.

Absolute Notions was by Milan a Flat horse and Getagain was by Getaway another Flat horse but his Damsire was Milan so yes a lot of Flat breeding. I have a solid large 16' 3/ 17 HH ROR horse who had the ability and potential but the owner would not give him the time he needed to mature and had him running in bumpers as a 3 year old.

 

[Clodagh]

And the average racehorse (well NH anyway), has a much better life than a dressage horse, not only can they walk trot and canter with their head and necks where nature intended, but they go out in the field most days usually with a friend/s, have time off in the summer out 24/7 etc etc

Not many go out in the field every day but I totally agree that they are ridden in a natural way.

 

[Clodagh]

They need to stop retiring unsound horses at 3 and using them at stud.

 

[bonny]

Absolute Notions was by Milan a Flat horse and Getagain was by Getaway another Flat horse but his Damsire was Milan so yes a lot of Flat breeding. I have a solid large 16' 3/ 17 HH ROR horse who had the ability and potential but the owner would not give him the time he needed to mature and had him running in bumpers as a 3 year old.

See if you can find a jumping horse who isn’t by a flat stallion ?

 

[tristars]

Do you really believe you know more about how his horse is than Gordon Elliot ?
he sees the horse every day and has done for years and yet you can tell by watching him on the tv?

er, yes, i have seen lame horses at international comps

i would not have too much faith in someone who uses a dead horse as a park bench

 

[Velcrobum]

I think the AQPS horses definitely have more substance about them eg: Sprinter Sacre or Elixir de Nutz plus they’ve shown they can race on terms and win against the pure TBs.

Going forward it would be nice to see more entire TBs competing in NH like they have in France, it would help expand the choice of NH stallions going forward but in reality I doubt that would happen. I‘m sure there was a colt / stallion running over jumps the other week in the UK but I can’t remember who it was!

I think the Skeltons are also running a colt/stallion with the aim of producing a NH sire.

 

[bonny]

er, yes, i have seen lame horses at international comps

i would not have too much faith in someone who uses a dead horse as a park bench

Better let him know then, I’m sure he will value your opinion.

 

[tristars]

Better let him know then, I’m sure he will value your opinion.

hardly the sort of person i would associate with

 

[Snowfilly]

I think the flat bred horses have also increased the pace of the game. Track surfaces are better, horses are faster, and the times are quicker.

Used to be common to see races run in heavy going with a field that rarely got out of a canter, there were perhaps more falls but they tended to be slide again on their nose and skid to a halt type ones from a slower pace with a better outcome. I rarely recall seeing a breakdown on the flat.

Now, they go off like bullets from the start and falls are harder. Plus more impact on legs from the speed maybe?

I feel like the heavy set chaser who’d pass as a Hunter would scarcely keep up with the field nowadays.

I don’t know, I’ve watched the jumps for 30 years and I think today’s the day when I’ve said no more, I can’t watch this anymore.

 

[Maddie Moo]

He’s trained by Jane Williams. I’m having a blank on his name. She buys a lot of French breds and wants to recreate the French model of racing entires.

Well remembered! I’ve just checked her horse list on RP and she has Authoceltic who is a four year old colt.

 

[Clodagh]

Well remember! I’ve just checked her horse list on RP and she has Authoceltic who is a four year old colt.

She trains near me and I went to her open day. He’s lovely, he slept through the whole shebang.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Paul Nicholls had Solo stay as a colt for a season but then he got gelded. So many seem to be gelded before even racing if they are destined for the jumps, wonder why?

Think how many could have gone on to be stallions

Agreed about the pace of races they seem so quick nowadays

 

[Gamebird]

Another sickening broken leg at muselbugh

WM has so many strong horses in his stable, is it a case of most people choosing him to train their horses or are there not many training options in Ireland?

I could never have GE train one

It's worth noting how many different owners WM has runners for. Of his 9 (!) winners this weekend, they were for 8 different owners, and runners for many more. There was a day at Cheltenham in the last festival when he had 16 runners for 15 different owners. He has the big guys, syndicates and people with just one horse. He's the best in the game, so if you have a good horse that's where you go. Gigginstown and Sullivan Bloodstock have both left and had to go back. It's interesting though that the operation is not solely propped up by a couple of big owners as some other trainers are.

 

[Clodagh]

It's worth noting how many different owners WM has runners for. Of his 9 (!) winners this weekend, they were for 8 different owners, and runners for many more. There was a day at Cheltenham in the last festival when he had 16 runners for 15 different owners. He has the big guys, syndicates and people with just one horse. He's the best in the game, so if you have a good horse that's where you go. Gigginstown and Sullivan Bloodstock have both left and had to go back. It's interesting though that the operation is not solely propped up by a couple of big owners as some other trainers are.

I saw Gigginstiwn were back with him. Did Elliot not have enough stables? .
I do like WM, he looks like someone who actually loves horses.

 

[Gamebird]

I also just can't go along with generalisations about NH horses. If you look at 50 horses you will see everything from 14.3 whippets to 17.2 middleweight hunters with every variation in between. I can lead up a whippet with no bone in one race and a giant with proper bone on the same day. The amout of variety in the thoughbred breed is astounding. And sometimes the heavier ones seem to get injured more easily. Also, don't forget that the sire of every NH horse is a flat horse!

 

[Maddie Moo]

Statement from the IJF Tragic news that a rider died at the Charing PTP today, he worked for Paul Nicholls

 

[Velcrobum]

RIP Keagan you died doing something you loved .

 

[humblepie]

How terribly sad.

 

[Andie02]

WM has so many strong horses in his stable, is it a case of most people choosing him to train their horses or are there not many training options in Ireland?

There are 100 trainer's listed on the Irish trainers championship list, there could be more as well as those on the list.

 

[photo_jo]

Not many go out in the field every day but I totally agree that they are ridden in a natural way.

Does depend on the yard, I've some fab photos somewhere of a mud wallow going on with a National winner and a Cheltenham winner after galloping!

 

[Maddie Moo]

Tattersalls live stream link for anyone who is interested in the Caldwell dispersal sale. Caldwell Potter is going through as Lot#5. Other horses for sales include Pied Piper, Fil Dor and Jazzy Matty.

The sale starts at 3pm.