Racing this weekend

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Another sickening broken leg at muselbugh

WM has so many strong horses in his stable, is it a case of most people choosing him to train their horses or are there not many training options in Ireland?

I could never have GE train one

 

[Maddie Moo]

Another sickening broken leg at muselbugh

WM has so many strong horses in his stable, is it a case of people choosing him to train their horses or are there not many training options in Ireland?

I could never have GE train one

I suppose people want the best for their horse so they try to get the next trainer for their money? A bit like O’Brien on the flat.

If I had a horse, then they’d be with Nicky Henderson.

 

[humblepie]

Didn’t see the Musselbrough race but so sad.

 

[Jenko109]

Very sad. He's only six I think.

I don't watch racing much but perhaps naively, I just dont anticipate such a break down over the hurdles.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

It feels like we are seeing more and more sickening broken legs that aren't directly caused by a fall, more through completely and utterly catastrophic breakdowns. He was hidden in the field in this instance, so maybe he hit the hurdle I'm not sure

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

2 nasty falls at last fence.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Can someone who's watching with sound (it's on mute on the iPad here as im watching the football) let me know if the fallers at the last in the Irish race are ok?

Didn't like the way one stayed in the crouching position, although it looked clear when they were showing the results?

 

[Maddie Moo]

It feels like we are seeing more and more sickening broken legs that aren't directly caused by a fall, more through completely and utterly catastrophic breakdowns. He was hidden in the field in this instance, so maybe he hit the hurdle I'm not sure

Tbh we are seeing a lot more of on the flat breakdowns in the NH racing.

Unfortunately until the BHA see sense and starting releasing fatality info, then it’s difficult to understand the distribution of injury types.

They are clearly worried about the antis, but they release the info in the US (including the full necropsy reports in some cases) and the HRI releases a list of dead horses (in training or retired) each week. They have antis as well and still an industry! You would think it would be better to have accurate info out there rather than animal rights group becoming vets and diagnosing injuries via a video

For reference whilst studying my MRes, I couldn’t even get the BHA to talk to me about a potential research project for my thesis. They kept putting the phone down and refusing to reply to emails. In the end I gave up and used Irish data!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Crikey, there are multiple threads up about abusive training methods in dressage and yet racing regularly shows horses getting killed on live television. Also all in the name of sport.

This cannot and will not continue for long.

How anyone can carry on watching this is beyond me.

I know I’ve been asked not to mention this before on this thread, but fgs this is utterly appalling and sickening viewing. Poor horses.

 

[Maddie Moo]

Crikey, there are multiple threads up about abusive training methods in dressage and yet racing regularly shows horses getting killed on live television. Also all in the name of sport.

This cannot and will not continue for long.

How anyone can carry on watching this is beyond me.

I know I’ve asked not to mention this before on this thread, but fgs this is utterly appalling and sickening viewing. Poor horses.

Exactly. Which is why I studied what I did at university but when the regulatory body will only run research projects with specific people it gets very disheartening. I have ideas but with no funding and no data access from the BHA I will never be able to act on them.

It is not acceptable to have so many horses breaking down, whilst no horse sport will ever be risk free, the sheer frequency of injuries should be seriously evaluated. Especially the type of fractures that are now occurring. There seems to have been a shift in the type that is being sustained but with no data access I can’t say that for certain.

Research has identified one of the genes associated with SDFT injuries (COL5a1) and most recently for one associated fracture risks in a study by the RVC but they need to be doing more to screen horses who are at risk. They need to screening horses who are at stud. We should follow the German (iirc) model of not breeding from horses who have EIPH.

We need frequent PET scanning like they have started to introduce in the US to identify horses before they get injury. We could use Stride Safe which is used during racing to identify changes in stride pattern before injuries occur.

We need more studies into fence design (my favourite area alongside surfaces) because one minute they were using neon yellow guard rails and then they went straight to the white ones with no mention about why it changed. Again I asked the BHA but they didn’t reply!

But most of all, I truly believe that horse welfare should be overseen by a regulatory body separate from the BHA.

 

[bonny]

Exactly. Which is why I studied what I did at university but when the regulatory body will only run research projects with specific people it gets very disheartening. I have ideas but with no funding and no data access from the BHA I will never be able to act on them.

It is not acceptable to have so many horses breaking down, whilst no horse sport will ever be risk free, the sheer frequency of injuries should be seriously evaluated. Especially the type of fractures that are now occurring. There seems to have been a shift in the type that is being sustained but with no data access I can’t say that for certain.

Research has identified one of the genes associated with SDFT injuries (COL5a1) and most recently for one associated fracture risks in a study by the RVC but they need to be doing more to screen horses who are at risk. They need to screening horses who are at stud. We should follow the German (iirc) model of not breeding from horses who have EIPH.

We need frequent PET scanning like they have started to introduce in the US to identify horses before they get injury. We could use Stride Safe which is used during racing to identify changes in stride pattern before injuries occur.

We need more studies into fence design (my favourite area alongside surfaces) because one minute they were using neon yellow guard rails and then they went straight to the white ones with no mention about why it changed. Again I asked the BHA but they didn’t reply!

But most of all, I truly believe that horse welfare should be overseen by a regulatory body separate from the BHA.

Are you involved in some way with racing ?

 

[Maddie Moo]

Are you involved in some way with racing ?

Not anymore. Previously I was very involved in racing.

 

[tristars]

all things shall come to pass....

how can horses being slaughtered live on tv be called entertainment, family entertainment

the gordon elliot trained conflated has a problem, i would imagine he is one sore horse today, i was surprised he did not fall yesterday, and cannot understand how elliot did not withdraw him he must know he has a problem, or maybe not in his case

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

It would be interesting to look at the breeding of these horses suffering catastrophic leg injuries - there seems to be a huge number of flat bred horses going into jumping, did this use to be the case?

The jumpers now seem much lighter framed and delicate rather than the big burley steeplechasers of the past - are they being expected to do a job they haven't been designed for in the first instance?

While I watch the racing still, I could never be involved in ownership or any of these syndicates as id feel responsible if "my" horse got fatally injured in a race. On the other hand nor would I own a horse and send it to a pro, even vetted very carefully. Pippa Funnel would be one of the few possibilities

 

[bonny]

all things shall come to pass....

how can horses being slaughtered live on tv be called entertainment, family entertainment

the gordon elliot trained conflated has a problem, i would imagine he is one sore horse today, i was surprised he did not fall yesterday, and cannot understand how elliot did not withdraw him he must know he has a problem, or maybe not in his case

Do you really believe you know more about how his horse is than Gordon Elliot ?
he sees the horse every day and has done for years and yet you can tell by watching him on the tv?

 

[humblepie]

The change to white from orange was based on research from an Exeter University project. I saw an article the other day about research into collagen levels re bone but can’t remember where that was.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Isn't white because they said it was easier for the horses to see white?

 

[Maddie Moo]

The change to white from orange was based on research from an Exeter University project. I saw an article the other day about research into collagen levels re bone but can’t remember where that was.

Yes it was but before they went to white, they actually went to neon yellow first after changing from the orange. Then they changed to white but when I asked them about what happened to the yellow because again that was based on research, they went radio quiet.



Edit - actually at one point they were using neon yellow and white together.

Edit again! Aha I’ve found the answer why they changed it from yellow to white!

Fluorescent yellow was found to have a similar positive impact, but the colour faded rapidly in tests, leading Exeter University to ratify the racing industry’s decision to select white as a valid choice going forward.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Also, flat horses are started a lot earlier - does this mean their bones don't get the chance to properly develop before then being sent jumping? Plus as mentioned up thread, they aren't originally bred for jumping

Sj who do age classes - what is the long term outcome for them, how well do they stand up to work in their later years?

One thing I completely disagree with, is horses having years out then having to come back racing - there must be a reason they were out so long, if they have such a serious injury/recurring injuries, are they sound enough to be brought back. Especially nowadays with so many alternative jobs they can do - why can't they do those why do they have to be brought back

Sextant yesterday is an example - last raced September 2021 on the flat - been out since then but was running over hurdles yesterday. Nothing happened to him

Sextant | Race Record & Form | Racing Post

Sextant statistics and form. View results and future entries as well as statistics by course, race type and prize money.

www.racingpost.com

I can remember a flat horse (something lion?) Who was sent to stud for a bit, brought back after about 5 years, showed no form, couple of races in got fatally injured

Matewan, last ran November 2021, broke down fatally Monday

Matewan | Race Record & Form | Racing Post

Matewan statistics and form. View results and future entries as well as statistics by course, race type and prize money.

www.racingpost.com

Should there be a limit of say 2 years absolute maximum out, any more than that they can no longer race and need to find another career. It would be interesting to see other outcomes for horses brought back after huge absences, I know Monkfish was out a while, but not that long. Why the need to bring them back?

 

[Clodagh]

We did try to keep this thread a celebration of racing rather than a hate thread. That would be nice.

 

[Maddie Moo]

We did try to keep this thread a celebration of racing rather than a hate thread. That would be nice.

Maybe we should switch the discussions on injuries etc to the social licence and racing thread? After all, it’s mostly public opinion that is going to impact the future of racing.

 

[bonny]

that was horrific

 

[bonny]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen before

 

[Maddie Moo]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen before

What happened? I’m not watching it now as I only have access to ITV or Sky Sports.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

What happened?

 

[bonny]

The bumper winner went down right before the line.

 

[bonny]

The bumper winner went down right before the line.

Don’t think he did win but that hardly matters

 

[Gloi]

Are people investigating ECVM in some of these horses that break down suddenly.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We did try to keep this thread a celebration of racing rather than a hate thread. That would be nice.

No hate, but you can’t celebrate the racing and ignore the issues around all of these deaths that keep happening as you watch. There have been many more deaths since I first got told off for posting about them before.

It is an open forum.

 

[Clodagh]

No hate, but you can’t celebrate the racing and ignore the issues around all of these deaths that keep happening as you watch. There have been many more deaths since I first got told off for posting about them before.

It is an open forum.

I accept that it can be a death discussion, I’ve no say in the matter. . It is, of course, a tragic side to the sport.