Rare breeds...why?!

catkin

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This may be teaching grandmother to suck eggs - one thing I would suggest to all owners of rare breeds is to join the relevant breed societies. Even if you don't breed and don't show it is paying back and 'paying forward' to help the breed you love and enjoy.
 

tristar

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i had a new branded new forest many years ago, it was stunning, knock spots of any warmblood for looks and quality, and a fell, utterly beautiful, exmoor great character, welsh lovely but not my favourite, can be spooky, used to ride a fabulous highland, very active and well balanced.

all these precious breeds should be encouraged and protected by government, but of course that woman is off signing a piece of paper to exit the eu, no doubt she`s never heard of half those ponies.
 

tristar

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i was on a yard in france 14 years ago, a yard with 50 stallions mainly iberian, and they had a merens stallion visit to train, he was stunning, lively, strong, wanted to work, a nice size, a very useful looking breed all round, judging by him, the colour would be popular too.
 

Ddraig_wen

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I have a Highland, a fell and a Shire as well as various Welshies. I love my Clevelands and had one of Forest Saga's daughters for years. I 'd have another in a heartbeat but I found getting hold of one so impossible that I gave up. I found the CBHS very closed which was a pity. I know a couple of others in my area who spent a long time looking for a nice CB but again acquisition issues. I've found alot of people have a bad impression of the breed as stubborn and slow but my girl was definitely not.
Its taken me about 3 years to find a Highland that I like and she's absolutely ace, so much easier than the Welshies. I only know of one other Highland near us. I don't know why though, they're so versatile and fun.
I don't know any fells locally at all except our lad. He's stubborn and too intelligent for his own good. He reminds me more of the Welshies in character but I wouldn't ahve him any other way. I don't know why more people don't have them near us. Everyone seems to have a welsh.
There's quite a few Shires locally but more for breeding than riding. Our girl was broken last year after having foals for a few years and so far she seems to love the job. Hopefully going to bring her back into work soon.
 

TTK

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I'm suprised about the newforest, I know afew people with newforest and nf x, myself included. I do think though that the majority of adults are not interested in ponies. Unless you are (no offence intended here at all) a bit short probably you will look a bit silly on a small pony. I have seen someone my height (5'7) on a small exmoor and it looked worse than me on my 14hh ( and we are not pretty!) not that the pony was at all bothered carrying the rider. I think people tend to go for bigger horses, even seen kids on them!

Pish, my Quarter Horse is 13.3 hh and I am 5' 5", he is not small and we are balanced with each other visually believe me. (no offence meant)
 

Rollin

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This may be teaching grandmother to suck eggs - one thing I would suggest to all owners of rare breeds is to join the relevant breed societies. Even if you don't breed and don't show it is paying back and 'paying forward' to help the breed you love and enjoy.

If you want to join the Cleveland Bay Horse Society you have to be 'approved' by the Council, this can take up to three months. If you opt to join at the Great Yorkshire Show, you won't be 'approved' until September.

Dr. Andy Dell PhD who was given an award by the RBST, presented by HRH the Prince of Wales, for his genetic study of the Cleveland Bay, has been refused membership of CBHS - members are outraged.

When breed numbers are critical there is a great danger of inbreeding. Dr. Dell's study has helped those of who breed Cleveland Bays, to select appropriate stallions for our mares. Each year he produces tables which enable us to make a choice. He does this in his own time and free of charge.

Becoming a breed society member may not be the way forward.
 

milliepops

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If you want to join the Cleveland Bay Horse Society you have to be 'approved' by the Council, this can take up to three months. If you opt to join at the Great Yorkshire Show, you won't be 'approved' until September.

Dr. Andy Dell PhD who was given an award by the RBST, presented by HRH the Prince of Wales, for his genetic study of the Cleveland Bay, has been refused membership of CBHS - members are outraged.

When breed numbers are critical there is a great danger of inbreeding. Dr. Dell's study has helped those of who breed Cleveland Bays, to select appropriate stallions for our mares. Each year he produces tables which enable us to make a choice. He does this in his own time and free of charge.

Becoming a breed society member may not be the way forward.

I can't understand this Rollin, what is the perceived danger from letting anyone join? From the outside, it would seem the more members the better with a horse population that small. Bonkers. :(
 

Rollin

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I can't understand this Rollin, what is the perceived danger from letting anyone join? From the outside, it would seem the more members the better with a horse population that small. Bonkers. :(

This is why the members are so angry. There is a long thread on the Cleveland Bay Open Forum.
 

Widgeon

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There are lots and lots of Exmoors in Yorkshire. Contact the Northern Area Rep, details on EPS website and have a look at the Yorkshire Exmoor Pony Trust FB page, YEPT have ponies conservation grazing all over North Yorkshire.

Sorry, yes, should've explained better - I meant as riding ponies. For general viewing pleasure (!), the ponies on Skipwith Common are close to us.
 

tristar

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the only horse breed society i join is arab horse society gb, they actively encourage part breds of all crosses down to 12 half per cent, and value anglos.

the day i gave up worrying about bits of paper and restrictive attitudes was a day i will always remember, the relief was enormous!, lets face it experienced breeders should be free to look to introducing new bloodlines from their point of view because they know where they are with their own stock at any given time, and when considering the next generation, which direction they think best, i call it breeding flair, some people have it.

too many competition stallions today with the same bloodlines, we need to preserve the different good examples of native and good crossbreds to return to as a wide genetic base, and widen the choice of individual types representative of as many different bloodlines as possible.
 

pennandh

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I love my idiot Highland to pieces.

He's a bit spooky sometimes, and occasionally decides life would be much more fun at a flat-out gallop, but he does absolutely everything I've ever asked him to try: western (trail obstacles and barrel racing); jousting; a few minor bits of stunt-riding; dressage (if we could just get the piaffe when I ask for it, too, we'd be golden); jumping all sorts of weird and wonderful objects; hacking out... Hopefully we're going to do side-saddle on the regular fairly soon.

He is the perfect demo pony for kids, not only in terms of ridden stuff, but also the littler ones learning to bridle up, because he's quite happy for ten children to crowd round and all have a go at doing the same thing with him one-after-another, as he loves the attention.

Admittedly, I'd quite like a bit more neck in front of me, and 13.1hh feels a little small when I'm faced with big jumps (I am a wuss and big horses make fences look smaller), but I wouldn't swap the almost 12 years of shenanigans I've had with Mr H. for the world. Rare breeds are fab, and more people should have them.
 
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Rollin

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the only horse breed society i join is arab horse society gb, they actively encourage part breds of all crosses down to 12 half per cent, and value anglos.

the day i gave up worrying about bits of paper and restrictive attitudes was a day i will always remember, the relief was enormous!, lets face it experienced breeders should be free to look to introducing new bloodlines from their point of view because they know where they are with their own stock at any given time, and when considering the next generation, which direction they think best, i call it breeding flair, some people have it.

too many competition stallions today with the same bloodlines, we need to preserve the different good examples of native and good crossbreds to return to as a wide genetic base, and widen the choice of individual types representative of as many different bloodlines as possible.

Both my rare breeds are from closed stud books. The Cleveland Bay and the Shagya Arab. I don't have a problem with this thanks to the work of Dr. Andy Dell we can select matings wisely to avoid in-breeding in the CB population. I have three mares/fillies from the same mating but already have frozen semen for two at West Kington which is compliant, one is for a deceased stallion for whom there is no more frozen semen - I have the last.

I also cross Shagya and Clevelands, we know that the CBXTB makes a fantastic sport horse I believe the Shagya is as good as if not better.

However I really support continuing to breed pure bred from the closed stud book - you know what you are getting. There are plenty of opportunities to cross out, although as you rightly say the rules and regulations we breeders are subjected to are somewhat dispiriting!!
 

tristar

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Rollin i agree with you on all that in the way of preserving pure bred stock with cbs, but i am also looking to the future.

i am in favour of cross breeding but as you say, with pure bred you know what you might get, however by using actual crossbred stallions with all top bloodlines and no warmblood or heavy horse ancestry i find the results very exciting.

i love the s arab this is a horse to come back to time and again for outcrossing and its great to know people such as yourself have the vision to keep the breeds going, if fact i would probably have used a s arab if one had been available if i had not found the stallion i have now, and there is another difficulty for rare breeds if stallions are not easily accessible.
 

Shazzababs

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Both my rare breeds are from closed stud books. The Cleveland Bay and the Shagya Arab. I don't have a problem with this thanks to the work of Dr. Andy Dell we can select matings wisely to avoid in-breeding in the CB population. I have three mares/fillies from the same mating but already have frozen semen for two at West Kington which is compliant, one is for a deceased stallion for whom there is no more frozen semen - I have the last.

I also cross Shagya and Clevelands, we know that the CBXTB makes a fantastic sport horse I believe the Shagya is as good as if not better.

However I really support continuing to breed pure bred from the closed stud book - you know what you are getting. There are plenty of opportunities to cross out, although as you rightly say the rules and regulations we breeders are subjected to are somewhat dispiriting!!

My TBxCB to add some gratuitous pics to the crossing is nice point:

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Rollin

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Rollin i agree with you on all that in the way of preserving pure bred stock with cbs, but i am also looking to the future.

i am in favour of cross breeding but as you say, with pure bred you know what you might get, however by using actual crossbred stallions with all top bloodlines and no warmblood or heavy horse ancestry i find the results very exciting.

i love the s arab this is a horse to come back to time and again for outcrossing and its great to know people such as yourself have the vision to keep the breeds going, if fact i would probably have used a s arab if one had been available if i had not found the stallion i have now, and there is another difficulty for rare breeds if stallions are not easily accessible.

When we lived in Scotland I found it both difficult and expensive to import frozen semen from a Shagya stallion. We have collected from our home bred stallion and have frozen semen available in USA and just across the channel in Normandy. He is graded for the SHGB Head Stud Book, Shagya Stud Book A and just been accepted for the North American Shagya Society - from our point of view the economics don't work out!!! Good for the breed though.
 

irish_only

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Sorry me again! One of the things I say repeatedly on FB is why do people not support our lovely native breeds instead of buying yet another non descript of unknown breeding hairy cob, when potential buyers defend this by saying they only want a happy hacker/sensible pony.
 

Rollin

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Not read it all yet, but I do know that HM the Queen has started crossing her Cleveland Bays due to a health issue that plagues the breed.

What health issues are these? I lost one pure bred mare to colic. Until then she was in good health. I currently have five pure bred and two part-bred, I sold another mare last year. Non of these have/have had health issues other than knocks or accidental injury.

I think you will find she crosses them because there are too few for the Royal Mews. This year she has two pure bred foals due from her own mares. A few years ago she offered to swop mares for geldings as geldings make better carriage horses.
 
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tristar

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i think people need to ride better to take on a good type of native, a hairy cob can be very one pace going nowhere confidence giver, the natives can be too good a ride for novices, up the teaching standard of riding is needed, a lot of welsh cobs are very lively, the highland i used ride was really forward and up at the front and balanced wonderful to ride, a welsh sec a i rode had wonderful paces and flowed along effortlessly, a pure dartmoor pony we had was almost the ideal childs pony, in holland and france the connemara is considered a top class show jumper, a welsh cob was champion junior show jumper of europe, a few years back.

its great that the s arab is now more available and hope people realize the possibilities of pure and cross breds, a few years might make a big difference hopefully to acknowledging the potential there, now it is available.
 

SO1

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This is my new forest (British Bred)

He is athletic, he can jump out of his stable from standstill, he can jump over post and rail fence and limbo under electric fence, he is fast and can turn at speed when he wants to!

Unfortunately I am not a very good rider so I can't take advantage of his natural abilities and potential. He is also quite opinionated and clever which I think is a native pony trait and makes him perhaps a bit more challenging but also endearing.

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This is a small jump as I am a wimp but he can jump much bigger than this.

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I've never seen an athletic new forest :D even the leggy ones that look like they should move don't. And another conclusion of the weekend was much as I love welshies if you want to do workers, get a Connie!
 
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tristar

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i france a new forest stallion ridden by a girl of 13 and trained by le cadre noir competes at a very high level, he is like the one we had, quite elegant, but he is FIT and RIDDEN a lot, not festering and fat , its only when you invest in the lengthy training and regular work that you will get the rewards and discover what is in any horse or pony, that caramello donkey on you tube is the perfect example, the ponies and horses are potentially capable of great things, its the riders and trainers that are big time crap.
 

ester

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This is my new forest (British Bred)

He is athletic, he can jump out of his stable from standstill, he can jump over post and rail fence and limbo under electric fence, he is fast and can turn at speed when he wants to!

Unfortunately I am not a very good rider so I can't take advantage of his natural abilities and potential. He is also quite opinionated and clever which I think is a native pony trait and makes him perhaps a bit more challenging but also endearing.

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[/IMG]

This is a small jump as I am a wimp but he can jump much bigger than this.

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Were you at PUK SO1 I think we saw you?

Perhaps I should clarify I do mean athletic in movement (I did say move rather than leaping/escapee abilities :D), but they were also notably lacking in the open workers compared to other breeds though I do know a few BSJAing in general it is not their forte unless european bred where they seem to have sportified them a bit. There was a particularly leggy stallion about last weekend who looked like a smart sports pony stood up but really had very little stride to speak of. They are good at what they do but it depends what you want them for. My friend had a fab one who as comparative youngster stalwartly ignored my welsh being a tit while they did pairs dressage :D, he was solid as but medium trot was a struggle.

I should mention I have hunted with a fair few, it was nice sharing a meet with the New Forest as I wasn't the only adult on a pony :D
 
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Rollin

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i france a new forest stallion ridden by a girl of 13 and trained by le cadre noir competes at a very high level, he is like the one we had, quite elegant, but he is FIT and RIDDEN a lot, not festering and fat , its only when you invest in the lengthy training and regular work that you will get the rewards and discover what is in any horse or pony, that caramello donkey on you tube is the perfect example, the ponies and horses are potentially capable of great things, its the riders and trainers that are big time crap.

Years ago, a British and French breeder in France purchased some NF stallions. The National Stud refused to accept them as pedigree horses so they could not compete in equivalent to affiliated competitions. The stallions were castrated which caused outrage. It took us 3 years to get the Cleveland Bay recognised as a pedigree horse.

Once we had 'recognition' we had a meeting with a Director of the National Stud who told us that France set out to breed a Selle Poney - Poney Club is very popular here (not like UK Pony Club). When they wanted to 'make' a Sellle Poney they purchased Welsh, NF and Connemara.
 

tristar

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about thirty something years ago there was no ponies to speak of in france and germany, i have been at auctions in the uk when they were buying to take abroad lots of british native ponies, they saw the quality and potential in those animals, took them to france and germany bred and trained them then re marketed them as poneys francais de selle and german sports ponies, what a shame the british government do not see what they have in their own back yard, as a lot of other countries subsidise horse breeding.

i saw several nf pony stallion at the haras nationale in st lo

i had a mare who`s foal i wanted to reg in france, and was told i would have to reg her in selle francais stud, at a cost of 240 euros, she would then be a selle francais, but when they realized the father was a three blood they were erm.. shocked, they showed me a sf passport and said if you reg her you will get a passport like this one and showed me a sf horses passport, as i idly flicked through it i counted 9 different races in this horses passport, including a trotteur francais, i suddenly lost interest in their stud book decided to breed what i want when i want, out of horses who`s origins and bloodlines are verifiable for many generations.

one pony stallion i looked at using on the continent was actually sired by an arab that belonged to my grandfathers friend, `but no, the woman said he is a german sports pony`

they have a list in france of breeds that are accepted or not accepted by les haras nationaux , i saw it in the flesh at the office, but you can`t do that really to an exsisting stud book.
 

Orangehorse

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The French have also developed the Henson as a breed. Lives out, around 14.2-15 hh, sturdy, easily carry adults, yet nice temperament. Bred on the Somme and the mares and youngstock live out on the seaside marshes in the summer months. A really nice, useful type purpose bred.

I think it is a shame that the New Forest is not more popular, I think they are far more people friendly than the ubiquitous welsh cob. Connemara ponies are great competition animals, but many adults would think that even the larger natives = Highland, Dales, New Forest - are too small, but they probably aren't. I would far rather have a Highland or Dales than a coloured cob.

Warmbloods have taken over as they have been deliberately purpose bred for sports. There hasn't been an equivalent breeding policy for family/leisure type ponies in the UK as I suppose there simply isn't any money in it.

The only "family type" horse I can think of as opposed to a competition animal is a Morgan, which is an American breed of course.
 

irish_only

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What health issues are these? I lost one pure bred mare to colic. Until then she was in good health. I currently have five pure bred and two part-bred, I sold another mare last year. Non of these have/have had health issues other than knocks or accidental injury.

I think you will find she crosses them because there are too few for the Royal Mews. This year she has two pure bred foals due from her own mares. A few years ago she offered to swop mares for geldings as geldings make better carriage horses.

It was inside information and I can't remember, other than it being genetic.

I know she has been trying to breed more greys as she used my old chap on a few mares, but it is very difficult to breed a grey from a CB unless he has homozygous grey.
 

Rollin

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about thirty something years ago there was no ponies to speak of in france and germany, i have been at auctions in the uk when they were buying to take abroad lots of british native ponies, they saw the quality and potential in those animals, took them to france and germany bred and trained them then re marketed them as poneys francais de selle and german sports ponies, what a shame the british government do not see what they have in their own back yard, as a lot of other countries subsidise horse breeding.

i saw several nf pony stallion at the haras nationale in st lo

i had a mare who`s foal i wanted to reg in france, and was told i would have to reg her in selle francais stud, at a cost of 240 euros, she would then be a selle francais, but when they realized the father was a three blood they were erm.. shocked, they showed me a sf passport and said if you reg her you will get a passport like this one and showed me a sf horses passport, as i idly flicked through it i counted 9 different races in this horses passport, including a trotteur francais, i suddenly lost interest in their stud book decided to breed what i want when i want, out of horses who`s origins and bloodlines are verifiable for many generations.

one pony stallion i looked at using on the continent was actually sired by an arab that belonged to my grandfathers friend, `but no, the woman said he is a german sports pony`

they have a list in france of breeds that are accepted or not accepted by les haras nationaux , i saw it in the flesh at the office, but you can`t do that really to an exsisting stud book.

When we take friends to visit the Cadre Noir/National Equestrian Centre they are amazed by the SF "They are all different". They resemble everything from an Ango-Arab to a Norman Cob. Pre SF it was a demi-sang which was a TBxNorman Cob. I have actually found 5 CB's in the SF stud going back about 10 generations. I come back to my two closed stud books -they are like peas in a pod. Look at my brother and sister Shagya jumping in France two weeks ago photo on the Breeding Forum.
 
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