Riding under Sedaline?!

[_GG_]

It's a banned substance but have you tried Valerian? I recently started feeding it to my mare and if she has a couple of large doses it does take the edge off her. I use the liquid in her food. She did build up a tolerance to it though so only use it when I need it now rather than every day like the instructions say

Also not good them long term. I have used it for my ex racer when she went through a stressed phase to try and help her cope and it did work. I fed a mix of Valerian and Vervain root in her feed.

 

[Queenbee]

I have to be honest, this is how I feel. It is not the practice that I disagree with, it is the reason.

I don't think is just one issue. I think it is a number of issues and the OP may have got more useful advice if all of the details had been put in the OP. Finding out about past owners on page 6 or whatever was means you have to accept that people will lean one way...the way the information has taken them.

So, someone has had a negative impact on the behaviour of the horse BUT...it still doesn't explain why it is an inconsistent issue. Hence my feelings that there is more to this horse than is evident in these pages.

Either way...the horse isn't happy and drastic measures for the sake of a rosette is just foreign to me. He's a horse, not a commodity.

Very well put. It is a very sad state of affairs to say that a horse means the world to you and then adopt this kind of approach, when someone means the world to you you try to understand them and help them work through things for their benefit, not railroad them for your own gain.

 

[LadyRascasse]

I personally would never use sedalin to compete on, having used it to clip a horse and he very violently came round and nearly broke my arm when he reared up. My other point I would like to make my old boy developed cataracts and he was a complete angel until he couldn't cope any more he started rearing when ridden, he ran into his fence and became quite panicky on occasions nothing like the horse he used to be. So if you vet isn't prepared to treat them I would be getting a second opinion. Also I had a mare that rear from we assumed was bad behaviour she was seen by the vet and had several trainers look at her who all said it was bad behaviour, eventually a different vet looked at her and found a compressed vertebra in her neck causing her a lot of pain which she carried on with it, telling us when she could that she was in pain. So I would say despite your professionals opinions I would be listening to your horse after all he is the only one who know what he feels!!

 

[amage]

You say he improved with a pro and then took a step back once he came back to you..,.at what point do you stop blaming your horse and start looking at yourself and what you are doing?!?! Send him back to the pro, get him going and this time get them to work on you aswell not just the horse

 

[LouisCat]

This thread has made me a bit sad. My horse of a lifetime (still got him) had been there and done a bit of everything. The first couple of years I had him we grew together, jumping big, technical courses and together we won so so many things. He did all this whilst being absolutely loved as part of the family.

One day we were competing and he started rearing and napping. We tried for 2 years to get him jumping as at home he loved it but competing he didn't. We took him back to 20cms jumping, we had Richard Maxwell out (he sorted many issues but couldn't solve the issue due to it being purely competing and being unable to sort him in that environment). As a last resort we went to an Animal Communicator. We weren't expecting anything, we told him the name and sent him one picture and he told us everything we could have already known about D and so much more. It broke my heart listening to the AC. My beloved horse had been doing everything asked of him since a 2 y/o (we had known this - he was sold as 5 to his previous owners) and he couldn't handle life competing any more.

Since then he has become a bit of a pet, he hacks around and does dressage and occasionally does some jump schooling which he loves and he's so happy - and it makes me happy to see him enjoying life. I could never have considered doping him to gain my own enjoyment out of him, he'd gritted his teeth and done it for years and then he'd screamed at us to tell us that he just couldn't do it anymore. I think horses are owed more respect than they get - you have to remember it isn't natural for them to have people on their backs doing SJ and trotting circles!

I can't explain how much I miss competing him, I don't think I'll ever understand a horse and have a partnership with one the way I had with him, but that was why I had to ignore what I wanted to do and put him first.

I'm really not a fluffy bunny hugger but I would honestly recommend an AC (PM me if you want to know who I used). The AC "spoke" to D and D "told" him the daily routine from what I would do in what order every morning, to his favourite treat I'd take him. The AC even mentioned that D appreciated how I always took the bridle apart to tack him up as he hated his ears being touched...I honestly believe every word the AC said, he could tell me stuff I did with D all the time which only I would've known. He also did a follow up with us and one of the things D "told" him was that since he competes less he's happier that he doesn't have to see hardly any men any more...

I think there are so many avenues to try before competing on sedalin and if he truly is your horse of a lifetime then you owe it to him. (Like many others I think there is a use for things like ACP if a horse is coming back into work after box rest or something similar - so I'm not entirely against it for quiet walk work but nothing more)

 

[FfionWinnie]

I think if you get a really good trainer to help, like Richard Maxwell, he would look at this from a totally different angle and address the cause and all the issues.

Leaving the eye aside, I'd want to work on all of his insecurities and all of his evasions before going near a ring. It's a very engrained vice now, so whatever you do its going to take a lot of work to sort it. It has to be the right sort of sorting however, otherwise you are not going to get anywhere.

I'd be surprised if sedalin made the slightest difference to the problem, but I've never used it under saddle myself.

 

[aimsymc]

I'm not getting into the right or wrong debate. I am aware lots of horses and ponies are competed on illegal substances sedalin being probably one of the mildest! However most are given because their too keen for the job.I really don't think it would work in this case tbh. I also echo the point about horses being more settled with eye removed rather than poor sight. I honestly cant understand sometimes why people persevere for so long trying to get horses to be something there not, you like competing he doesn't...... sell him and get one who likes competing!

 

[Firewell]

I feel sad as well reading this . There are so many horses in the world that will do what the OP wants why is she putting this horse through all this just for a silly piece of cheap ribbon or a few coins when he is clearly trying to tell her he is not happy for whatever reason (be it the rider, pain, insecurity). Why can't he be a horse that hacks with friends and schools/jumps at home?
The thought of drugging my horse so he will jump round a course of fences fills me with horror. I would never force him to do something he doesn't want to do by taking away his reactions. It's also dangerous! What if he gets a wrong stride and he can't adjust quick enough and you end up IN the jump instead of over it? Part of the enjoyment of riding for me is the partnership with a horse and us doing things together that are enjoyable. I understand some horses need to a job so to speak but why can't that be a different job for someone else?

 

[Supanova]

I can see both sides of the argument here, but i also feel a bit sorry for the OP. She has simply asked about people's experience of using seadline whist riding because a professional has suggested it to her to try and solve an issue with this horse. We have all jumped in, me included, and given her alterative advice on dealing with this issue.

There are a number of people who are saying you should simply not be competing this horse and should just be a happy hacker, because he obviously doesn't enjoy it! You know what if we all took this view on our life with horses then i think none of us would actually ride them at all - i very much doubt any horse enjoys being ridden for the first time. I am sure that they are all anxious about going away from other horses. However, we put them through it anyway. People also seem to assume all horses enjoy hacking or doing a little bit of flatwork - i can tell you that my horse (and by the sound of it the OP's horse is the same) hates hacking and gets very bored just riding round in the arena at home!

I hack my horse round the field and everytime we go to through the gate in to the next field she rears and spins because she wants to go home to her pals - do you suggest that i just let her do that because she obviously is really unhappy and in masses of pain?!! No - its because she is a little uncomfortable about going away from home so i have to persuade her that its ok and she gets a bit pat when she does what i want.

Having said all that, I think the only chance of having a long term fix is to change something - either the horses motivation (through the reward of doing what is asked being bigger than not doing it) or perhaps a different rider who may not give away their feelings to the horse (this is not a criticism of you OP!).

Good luck OP

 

[ellie_e]

I can see both sides of the argument here, but i also feel a bit sorry for the OP. She has simply asked about people's experience of using seadline whist riding because a professional has suggested it to her to try and solve an issue with this horse. We have all jumped in, me included, and given her alterative advice on dealing with this issue.

There are a number of people who are saying you should simply not be competing this horse and should just be a happy hacker, because he obviously doesn't enjoy it! You know what if we all took this view on our life with horses then i think none of us would actually ride them at all - i very much doubt any horse enjoys being ridden for the first time. I am sure that they are all anxious about going away from other horses. However, we put them through it anyway. People also seem to assume all horses enjoy hacking or doing a little bit of flatwork - i can tell you that my horse (and by the sound of it the OP's horse is the same) hates hacking and gets very bored just riding round in the arena at home!

I hack my horse round the field and everytime we go to through the gate in to the next field she rears and spins because she wants to go home to her pals - do you suggest that i just let her do that because she obviously is really unhappy and in masses of pain?!! No - its because she is a little uncomfortable about going away from home so i have to persuade her that its ok and she gets a bit pat when she does what i want.

Having said all that, I think the only chance of having a long term fix is to change something - either the horses motivation (through the reward of doing what is asked being bigger than not doing it) or perhaps a different rider who may not give away their feelings to the horse (this is not a criticism of you OP!).

Good luck OP

No Supanova, I value your opinion, and a few others on here- Like I said in the first post, I wanted peoples experiences using it, good or bad, but I'm really not interested in those who think its immoral, or poor pony, I train with educated people who are at the top of their game, or who have been there/done it, I'm not talking your 'normal' instructors, they wouldn’t of suggested it to me, if they didnt think it was a good idea. They know the horse and myself well, I was just looking for other peoples experiences on it, and yes its probably not the safest thing to-do, jump a drugged horse, but I'm not about to give him a whole tube of the stuff and jump 1.30!! However he is currently not safe while rearing, and its not small bunny hops, its vertical almost over backwards rearing, because hes a nappy bu**er!! I'm 99% positive hes not in pain, there maybe some strange memory to having sore legs from the past, but I'm hoping good experiences in the ring will mean he will forget about the past, I also believe he was probably pushed to much as a youngster, however I'm not asking him to-do it day in day out once every few months Is not difficult, I will try and get some video of him warming up this weekend, and then going into the ring (its a DR comp) to show what he can be like. Its not about going out and winning, I really dont care if he has every fence down, I want him to go into the ring, happily, trot/canter around, and come out. Like I said, hes a talented chap, who will not happily hack for the rest of his days, and costs to much to feed, and keep warm to be sat in a field growing old.

 

[aimsymc]

I can see both sides of the argument here, but i also feel a bit sorry for the OP. She has simply asked about people's experience of using seadline whist riding because a professional has suggested it to her to try and solve an issue with this horse. We have all jumped in, me included, and given her alterative advice on dealing with this issue.

There are a number of people who are saying you should simply not be competing this horse and should just be a happy hacker, because he obviously doesn't enjoy it! You know what if we all took this view on our life with horses then i think none of us would actually ride them at all - i very much doubt any horse enjoys being ridden for the first time. I am sure that they are all anxious about going away from other horses. However, we put them through it anyway. People also seem to assume all horses enjoy hacking or doing a little bit of flatwork - i can tell you that my horse (and by the sound of it the OP's horse is the same) hates hacking and gets very bored just riding round in the arena at home!

I hack my horse round the field and everytime we go to through the gate in to the next field she rears and spins because she wants to go home to her pals - do you suggest that i just let her do that because she obviously is really unhappy and in masses of pain?!! No - its because she is a little uncomfortable about going away from home so i have to persuade her that its ok and she gets a bit pat when she does what i want.

Having said all that, I think the only chance of having a long term fix is to change something - either the horses motivation (through the reward of doing what is asked being bigger than not doing it) or perhaps a different rider who may not give away their feelings to the horse (this is not a criticism of you OP!).

Good luck OP

Good post supernova!
I agree about the change of rider, my friend is a dealer and the amount of trade ins people bring who are terrified of them is unbelievable! 99% of the time within a week or 2 with jockey change they are completely different well behaved horses. ( Not relating this to you op just musing).

 

[Laafet]

I used to compete T on sedalin as he was just as you described, only for dressage. It was not ideal but I hoped it would help him to get over his problem. Sadly whilst we could atleast get round safely it was clear that he was super talented but hated competing, so I sold him to a hunting home. FWIW racehorses, rightly or wrongly, are often ridden on ACP/Sedalin in town, not saying it is a good thing just that they are cantered on it etc.

 

[ellie_e]

Good post supernova!
I agree about the change of rider, my friend is a dealer and the amount of trade ins people bring who are terrified of them is unbelievable! 99% of the time within a week or 2 with jockey change they are completely different well behaved horses. ( Not relating this to you op just musing).

If anyone is local to me, and feel they would like to crack him, I'm more than happy for people to come and try. My DR trainer who was the pro I sent him to has offered to compete him next time if hes badly behaved, but she doesnt jump, and I dont want to send him away again, as finding a pro that will understand and not beat him into submission is tricky, and also that will ride him- several well known names have turned him down as they are 'too valuable'

 

[aimsymc]

Op I hope that never came across like I think it'll be easy for someone else to fix Because I don't. I actually think your brave for sticking at it so long! I'd have jacked it in long ago!

 

[Supanova]

No Supanova, I value your opinion, and a few others on here- Like I said in the first post, I wanted peoples experiences using it, good or bad, but I'm really not interested in those who think its immoral, or poor pony, I train with educated people who are at the top of their game, or who have been there/done it, I'm not talking your 'normal' instructors, they wouldn’t of suggested it to me, if they didnt think it was a good idea. They know the horse and myself well, I was just looking for other peoples experiences on it, and yes its probably not the safest thing to-do, jump a drugged horse, but I'm not about to give him a whole tube of the stuff and jump 1.30!! However he is currently not safe while rearing, and its not small bunny hops, its vertical almost over backwards rearing, because hes a nappy bu**er!! I'm 99% positive hes not in pain, there maybe some strange memory to having sore legs from the past, but I'm hoping good experiences in the ring will mean he will forget about the past, I also believe he was probably pushed to much as a youngster, however I'm not asking him to-do it day in day out once every few months Is not difficult, I will try and get some video of him warming up this weekend, and then going into the ring (its a DR comp) to show what he can be like. Its not about going out and winning, I really dont care if he has every fence down, I want him to go into the ring, happily, trot/canter around, and come out. Like I said, hes a talented chap, who will not happily hack for the rest of his days, and costs to much to feed, and keep warm to be sat in a field growing old.

Believe me i can understand your frustration..... I think it would be great to see a video so will look forward to your next post.

 

[ellie_e]

Believe me i can understand your frustration..... I think it would be great to see a video so will look forward to your next post.

I will try, mother isnt the best with technology, and is normally riding herself, or dragging mine through the doors
This weekend however she is cheif groom, so will hand her the iphone and hope she can manage to point camera!

 

[StoptheCavalry]

Also people are telling you you shouldn't be doing it to compete him but you have also said he hates hacking and living out... So what is it everyone thinks you should do with him instead? Unless you are able to push him out of his comfort zone what really can be done? I have problems with mine because he has terrible separation anxiety and advice for me is repetition so force him to do something he doesn't want to do in the hope that eventually he will realise it is not so bad so he has to (eventually) be forced to hack alone, which he absolutely hates. While my horses behaviour is no where near the scale of yours unless you can do something to get him to even attempt to go in the ring how will you ever show him that it maybe isn't actually so bad. I have very sketchy experience of horses being given ACP and generally not for jumping work. But seems to me unless he's never going to be a pleasure horse because of his nature so if under slight sedation he would calmly enter the ring and have a positive experience perhaps the habitual behaviour would be broken. That said I have seen horses being sedated by vets that's adrenaline levels were so high nothing and I mean nothing worked. The vet in the end had to give up as anymore would have killed him so it may be that his adrenaline level spikes so high whilst entering the ring the sedaline has no effect

 

[Ahrena]

I just wanted to add to the competing thing. This isn't meant as an attack but I wanted to tell you my experience.

I have a pony who could of jumped for Britain, she's jumped the top of the wings without batting an eyelid.

One day she started napping and rearing. We spent years trying to get to the bottom of it, spent a fortune on vets, treatments ect. Many people told me she was fin, but i knew she wasn't. Eventually someone found a very bad muscle spasm in her neck, the worst this person had seen. We had it treated, and she was no different.

We sent her off for training with an IH person, (which we had done before but she was sent back after they fell off and broke their leg) and she improved a lo. She got to the point where she was unrideable. She wasn't fixed, but i could ride her.

It took another 3 years to get her to the point where I could hack, school and jump without her frequently napping and rearing. However I eventually had to decide to abandon the idea of competing. She still isn't 100% schooling and jumping at home. She finds it stressful and I dare say scary because of the physical problems.

Now she's sat in the field doing nothing. She has to be carefully managed or her behaviour goes downhill and she can be so dangerous i can"t risk selling or loaning.

It's crap, but she's happy doing the odd hack. She used to win every class she did - so bold, so careful and incredible against the clock, but being in pain for a length of time ruined her.

If the horse doesn't enjoy it, what's the point?

 

[sare_bear]

I have known several people use sedalin on anxious / excited newbie hunters. It has helped the few I saw, adjust to the life of hunting. Would I have wanted to ride them? NO! With one or 2 their reflexes were just not quick to find that 5th leg. In your case, I would worry that the self preservation element of rearing and not going over backward, would no longer kick in?? So for the riders safely in this case, I would be careful.

I do think your horse is insecure for a variety of reasons, eye included. Have you tried long reining your horse? Will he go out on his own long reining? Will he hack out with someone walking on the ground? I think that if you can crack the insecurities of going on his own, maybe in his home environment, it may help in still confidence to go it alone at shows? I had a nappy rearing mare that would not hack alone, but was ok in her safety zone of the school. I was loosing the will to live as she was bought to event, but would not go on her own. I was recommended taking horse to somewhere off road with plenty of time. I then asked the horse to walk on, when she started napping, rearing, I just sat there took the pressure off, if horse turned for home I would turn her back, then sit. First day I sat for 40 mins when she suddenly decided of her own accord to walk forward, as going back was not an option. This was now HER choice! Big pats and off we went. Did this every day for week. Some days we sat for 10 mins, others an hour, but by end of the week she just gave in and went off hacking. After that I started changing the route. Every time I felt her worry, I would immediately back off, let her access the situation, then gently encourage her forward. This seemed to stop it getting to the rearing and spinning stage. To be fair after this, I had very little problem with her in the future. I know this does not solve the competing element, but I think if you both start to trust each other, it may help in a more pressurised situation of competing?

On the eye front, I think as discussed above, it is likely to be a part in the equation. Just a thought and others with more knowledge, may advise against, is it worth trying to put horse in a blinker on the side of the cataract? To see if reducing the light element etc improves his behaviour? Sorry, may be a silly idea.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[TarrSteps]

If anyone is local to me, and feel they would like to crack him, I'm more than happy for people to come and try. My DR trainer who was the pro I sent him to has offered to compete him next time if hes badly behaved, but she doesnt jump, and I dont want to send him away again, as finding a pro that will understand and not beat him into submission is tricky, and also that will ride him- several well known names have turned him down as they are 'too valuable'

I completely understand your frustration but no one is going to be able to "fix" this horse in one or two go's, regardless of the cause(s) of his current state. The behaviour has gone on too long and is too ingrained. The one I referenced before with similar issues (except didn't rear, he flipped right over when asked to go into the ring) took literally years to sort, first with me doing all his "rehab" work and then with a competition pro who was willing to take him to the shows with them, first not competing, and then only going in the ring on the days he felt good. (And, for the record, they did use sedation initially, although not ACP and not when he was actually competing in recognised classes, to keep everyone safe.) It was a long road! For example, the first time I got him in the ring successfully we planned the day out with military precision and I had two people to help me. It took us 45 min to get him the couple of hundred yards from the collecting ring to the show ring. I was lucky enough to be able to manage the situation (I picked the show specifically, talked to the organisers beforehand etc. ) and the show was multi-day so we were able to keep at it over the weekend. And this was after doing all the work at home, going to clinics (one of which we were thrown out of ) and taking every precaution. It was hardly a case of rocking up and taking a few shots at the problem.

In his case owner was very well off and had bred the horse and made some of the initial bad decisions for him so was HIGHLY motivated to salvage at least something from the situation. Eventually it worked out that the horse went best in the lower amateur classes with a smaller female rider so the owner (who didn't ride) paid the bills for that. That horse still makes me sad as he is to this day the most talented jumper I've ever sat on. There was no feeling like it. And in his case he was okay initially and then some stuff happened and then he was not okay, so there had at least been the potential for it all to work out. But c'est la vie, I know many horses with similar stories, from racehorses that cost a fortune as yearlings to dressage horses bred in the purple for the job, even to kids ponies. All of them would have been superstars "except for" . . .

My general approach is "Never teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig." But, as a few people have pointed out, that's tricky in a situation like this there are limited options for the horse. I do a lot of loading work and sometimes horses can be quite violent in their objections. Too bad. You can't be a horse in the modern age and not travel, it places too many limitations. Ditto, leading well and other basic skills. After that, there is some wriggle room - not every horse is going to be a good hack or a successful showjumper, no matter how hard someone works at it and I think there is a point where it's unfair to keep pushing. But in actual fact we "force" most horses to do things at different times. I can almost guarantee any horse that comes out of racing knows a bit about force and the subsequent owners actually benefit from that knowledge as it means they never have to have the conversation.

Sometimes desperate times do respond to desperate measures. As people have mentioned, there are lots of horses that have had to be "convinced" to do a job and then done it willingly and successfully. I've just this week encouraged someone to send a horse off to a specialist trainer with excellent facilities, not because I am incapable of working with the horse, but because he is better positioned to give the horse what it needs right now for the best outcome. It's not about me and what I want, it's not even about what the owner wants. It is a (sad) fact of life that horses are "worth" more if they do a job and it behooves us to try and help them find a job they can do. I'm not sure the OP's horse WILL be able to do the job she wants but I can understand the motivation to try.

 

[Mickyjoe]

Wise words Tarrsteps. :nod:

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

God, I'd forgotton just how judgemental the HHO forum can be!!

OP- I hope you find a solution, there is nothing wrong with you wanting to compete your horse, like someone else has said, if we never made horses do things they didn't want to do then they'd never do anything but stand about eating. I think if it is sheer nappiness/ obstinacy and you can be sure not physical then I too would try and find a way through it, however long it took.

That said, personally I'm not sure I'd want to jump on ACP/Sedalin. I would also be looking to really sort out his insecurity issues as it sounds like this is where it all stems from. Perhaps by starting slowly to introduce hacking alone and build up from there or send him back to the dressage pro and get him comfortable doing dressage again, with you as well as the pro and then move onto jumping?

ETA- I am not fluffy bunny either but if you have tried everything else I think an AC could be worth a try.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

Completly agree PM, he is insecure, will NH help this?

Personally I think it could be of great help if you get the right person - yes many of these people will ride your horse for you. And you will be left with some new ideas to try - perhaps taking a different line to the things you have tried. I used Michael Peace to help me with a nappy mare I had (probably a sledge hammer to crack a nut in a way but I nipped the problem in the bud) I recommend him highly. From what you say in this thread i think his approach would suit you. Its business like and not what you would really think of as "alternative" in other words there is no carrot stick or extra bits and pieces you need to do it. Its just good psychology, good reading of the horse and the situation and straight forward fair calm and skilled riding.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

some of you are being seriously judgmental and overly dramatic!

how many times i have been told that CS "must" be in pain, or that im pushing him too hard, and how many times have i subsequently been ripped to shreds for sticking to my guns and carrying on MY path.........

dont get me wrong, ive recieved some very good, helpful advice from lovely people, but a lot of abuse also and many of the biggest changes have come off the back of people closest to the horse, like NMT and NOT from the naysayers on here. Trust your instincts and dont be swayed by the internet drama llama!

There are certain people who will love to tell you everything you are doing wrong and then when THEY turn out to be incorrect, are somehow incapable of saying sorry.


OP my advice is to try and find out what routine the pro had the horse in, down to rugs feed, tack, turnout time etc and try and replicate it, start from there and experiment. is he better on certain feeds or in certain tack even if it goes against *science*, is he better under or over rugged. is he better stabled 24/7 or out 24/7 or a mix.

the one thing i would say is that scoping doesnt show hind gut ulcers, so would reccomend Egusin SLH ,see if that helps at all.

Keep a diary, try and put all the little improvemnts together to build a pic of what he wants from you.

 

[Goldenstar]

I have ridden a horse on sedalin after box rest I did not enjoy it at all , my fear would be that you could get a sudden enormous explosion with disastrous consequences .
The one I had who showed similar behaviour was going progressively blind when we teased it out he was happy to jump at home but became unable to cope in strange surroundings .
I don't how I would try to progress if I where you I think I would give up probally because I am old now and just could not be bothered.
I do hope you find a way though good luck and stay safe.

 

[ellie_e]

some of you are being seriously judgmental and overly dramatic!

how many times i have been told that CS "must" be in pain, or that im pushing him too hard, and how many times have i subsequently been ripped to shreds for sticking to my guns and carrying on MY path.........

dont get me wrong, ive recieved some very good, helpful advice from lovely people, but a lot of abuse also and many of the biggest changes have come off the back of people closest to the horse, like NMT and NOT from the naysayers on here. Trust your instincts and dont be swayed by the internet drama llama!

There are certain people who will love to tell you everything you are doing wrong and then when THEY turn out to be incorrect, are somehow incapable of saying sorry.


OP my advice is to try and find out what routine the pro had the horse in, down to rugs feed, tack, turnout time etc and try and replicate it, start from there and experiment. is he better on certain feeds or in certain tack even if it goes against *science*, is he better under or over rugged. is he better stabled 24/7 or out 24/7 or a mix.

the one thing i would say is that scoping doesnt show hind gut ulcers, so would reccomend Egusin SLH ,see if that helps at all.

Keep a diary, try and put all the little improvemnts together to build a pic of what he wants from you.

Thanks PS- I must admit, I did think of you, in the video you posted a few weeks back, half way through a test he reared. Glad its not just mine!!

Will speak to the pro who he stayed with for a while, she trains me, and is very understanding, plus she like horse, which helps!
Routine wise, he would of been turned out for a few hours on individual paddocks, then stabled for the rest, I dont have that facility where we are saddly
Feed wise, hes the same as I took his own for her, rugs again took his own, but it was warm so didnt really wear anything in the stable other than his sheet.
She has however said to try him on Piriton, she has used it on a Stallion that was mad, I know its not legal, but would at least like to try and break the cycle as currently hes winning.
What exaclty are the hind ulcer supplements??? Worth a try, like I keep saying, this is not an ideal situation, and if there was something else to try, I would, so happy to give it a try!
Also for the person who asked about him hacking with someone on the ground, he still stops and rears, but mum can normall get hold of his bridle and drag him past whatever hes pretending to spook at. Ive walked him in hand several times down the lane, he back off alittle, but happy enough just looses the confidence with someone on top.

 

[weebarney]

I can totally relate to your problem. I have an amazing ex racer who came to me with many problems including wouldn't hack out alone, I sent him to get reschooled and he came back loads better, however competitions are and always have been massively stressful for him, he enjoys it and always performs well when in the ring but in the warm up arena he would rear and buck and nap terribly when you tried to get him into the ring. He had so much talent and have me such a brilliant feeling when he was going well. I took him for a group jumping lesson with a pro and he spent at least half the lesson going up or backwards and the other half like a fantastic schoolmaster. Very frustrating. Some days he would stand like a dobbin and others he'd be vertical 75% of the day. I think with a better rider and more consistent work he could have been a nice eventer, but now he just lives a life of leisure as it was just too dangerous to have him behave the way he does. I could have sent him for more schooling but i decided to cut my losses.
If I were you I'd let a professional take him on for a bit and get him to shows to see what happens. It doesn't have to cost a fortune either I used to pay 80 a week for schooling livery.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

CS is on Egusin SLH-he did the full dose for 2 weeks, then a half dose and is now on 1/4 dose and will stay on that. Its relatively expensive @ £80 for 2 weeks, but if you can get it down to 1/4 dose not too bad in the grand scheme of horse owning!!!!!

maybe knock hacking on the head for a bit-i havent hacked CS for 2 years ish, and it made a huge improvement to his behaviour at shows. Now we have the show part under control ive started pottering round the block again in the last 2 weeks,and he is 500% better, having cemented our relationship/agreement in the arena (he prefers schooling to hacking) he is now happier to go for short hacks. I dont think people understand that aspect of a true competition horse, CS didnt want to hack, didnt want to do *fun* stuff, he wanted to do serious work! So we went with that and now maybe he is ready to hack a little.

is there no way he can stay in more? is there anyone you could pay to bring him in earlier or to skip/hay him at lunch them just lob himout for a couple of hours later one etc? can your mum help out with that at all? anything to get him in a structured routine that HE enjoys.

 

[ellie_e]

CS is on Egusin SLH-he did the full dose for 2 weeks, then a half dose and is now on 1/4 dose and will stay on that. Its relatively expensive @ £80 for 2 weeks, but if you can get it down to 1/4 dose not too bad in the grand scheme of horse owning!!!!!

maybe knock hacking on the head for a bit-i havent hacked CS for 2 years ish, and it made a huge improvement to his behaviour at shows. Now we have the show part under control ive started pottering round the block again in the last 2 weeks,and he is 500% better, having cemented our relationship/agreement in the arena (he prefers schooling to hacking) he is now happier to go for short hacks. I dont think people understand that aspect of a true competition horse, CS didnt want to hack, didnt want to do *fun* stuff, he wanted to do serious work! So we went with that and now maybe he is ready to hack a little.

is there no way he can stay in more? is there anyone you could pay to bring him in earlier or to skip/hay him at lunch them just lob himout for a couple of hours later one etc? can your mum help out with that at all? anything to get him in a structured routine that HE enjoys.

In an ideal world I would like him out from 10-2ish but were on a DIY type set up, and mum works part time aswell. He does seem to enjoy his jumping, rarely stops, ears forward etc, but the napping/leaving others gets the better of him. Trainer on Saturday did say once Ive broken the cycle and getting him in the ring I need to step up a level as hes not really trying at the level we are 'trying' to compete at, which I can see the logic, if hes bored, why would he want to do it etc, but Im then nervous of going up to 1.10/1.15 level if hes being a tit, as atleast over BN he can trot around if needs be.
Ive stepped up his work in the school as now trying to compete at Elem, so maybe that might improve things.
Going to see what happens on the weekend, and then sit down and work out a plan.

 

[TarrSteps]

OP, quite a few of your posts make it clear you believe this horse is behaving this way just to annoy you/because he is naturally unwilling - just in your last post 'he's winning' and 'pretending to spook'. If this is the case, why the reluctance put someone on who is going to be tough on him? If you honestly believe it's simply that he's got your number then you need to find someone to get his and teach you to do likewise.