Should hunting with hounds be banned?(poll)

[ponynutz]

I would love to give hunting a go just because it seems like fun but I will never condone the unnecessary and inhumane (unnecessarily painful or brutal) killing of any animal and I just don't see how with hounds there aren't instances where 'accidents' happen. Surely a hunt is just as fun without the dogs? (Initially I voted to keep the dogs until I read the thread further and realised accidental killings do happen). Also interesting points raised about the trashing of farmland... I'm now not sure I will ever hunt because I'm not sure there's any way to do it safely and ethically.

 

[teapot]

I think clean boot is now the only acceptable version.

My local (fox) hunt bangs on about trail hunting and hunting within the law, but it's all so cloak and dagger with regards locations, dates, times. Do nothing wrong, got nothing to hide and all that. Others we all know tread on the line of the law and are not helping any hunt's existance in the 21st cen world imho.

 

[dottylottie]

i will preface this my saying i’m not pro fox hunting by any means - i do think it would be a shame if the tradition of the hunt was lost entirely, but i don’t agree with fox hunting.

what i don’t understand, is how many posts i see throughout the whole year about how awful fox hunting is, yet i’ve never seen a single post about how cruel it is to have a pack of ratters, or to have gun dogs and shoot pheasants/ducks.

obviously there’s plenty of people out there who don’t agree with hunting any live animal, but what is it about foxes specifically that causes such an uproar? im well aware of foxes being vermin, but i’ve never heard of ducks or pheasants being so! is it just that hunting in any form is so much more obvious, than a few people off for a shoot? the general opinion of rats being so much worse than foxes?

ETA: obviously i can see the obvious of a bullet being a much kinder method of killing than being ripped to shreds by a pack of hounds, but there’s no guarantee that one shot will kill a flying, moving target

 

[Old school]

Police investigate hunting allegations after sheep dies in south Northants fox hounds incident

Police are investigating alleged ‘illegal hunting’ after a sheep drowned when foxhounds ran amok through a field at Moreton Pinkney.

www.banburyguardian.co.uk

How would you feel if this were your sheep?

There are other ways to control foxes.

Oh how often does this occur? Have you any numbers? Just to be sure to compare it to the number of lambs taken by foxes…. Lets keep it all in perspective please.

 

[ycbm]

Oh how often does this occur? Have you any numbers? Just to be sure to compare it to the number of lambs taken by foxes…. Lets keep it all in perspective please.

Those numbers aren't relevant, because nobody on this thread has yet said foxes which are taking farmers stock should not be shot.

Just shoot them, like all my farming friends do.
.

 

[ponynutz]

Foxes are animals responding to their nature. There are much more humane ways to dispose of a fox who is killing lambs than turning it into a sport and letting dogs rip it apart.

 

[ponynutz]

Those numbers aren't relevant, because nobody on this thread has yet said foxes which are taking farmers stock should not be shot.

Just shoot them, like all my farming friends do.
.

Exactly this.

 

[ycbm]

yet i’ve never seen a single post about how cruel it is to shoot pheasants/ducks

You haven't been reading the forum then because we've gone on and on about shooting birds in the not too distant past.

 

[ycbm]

yet i’ve never seen a single post about how cruel it is to have a pack of ratters

This has been discussed at length in the recent past too. The problem is that all the other methods of controlling rats are much more cruel. Warfarin is awful. Some of the home made methods are awful. Trapping is awful. Humane traps mean they are held captive and then you still have to choose a way to kill them. Other traps can be horrifically inhumane if they catch but fail to kill. Cats play with their prey. It's difficult to shoot small fast things and be sure they don't escape injured.

I reluctantly came to the conclusion after watching terriers work on video that using a pack of terriers on rats is the most humane way to kill them.
.

 

[neddy man]

Interesting that 27 pollers have ticked more than one box.151/178

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I think that if you don’t want to do something then don’t do it, don’t support it then eventually it dies off.

Fox hunting is banned, yes idiots are still doing it while hiding behind other things but I don’t see this as justification to ban drag or clean boot hunting. Why punish those adhering to the laws? It’s like slapping a dogs nose when it’s not done anything quite frankly.

I engage in common ridings, so would you want to ban these next? Those are a historical practice. No dogs involved but it’s basically hunting with no jumps and no dogs on a prescribed route across miles and miles of land. Are we tearing that up too?? The police even attend these. The local land owners open their gates and have quads moving the stock before we gallop through. Would hunt rides then go as well?? Again lots and lots of riders across miles of land jumping jumps or not depending on their preference??

I don’t get why fox hound packs can’t just abide by the law, if they can’t then yes they should be disbanded and that area should not be allowed to start up again under trail or drag with fox hounds again. That to me is a better consequence than blanket banning just for the sake of it.

 

[Rowreach]

Interesting that 27 pollers have ticked more than one box.151/178

It literally says you can tick more than one. I ticked drag and bloodhounds. If I'd had to pick just one I wouldn't have ticked any.

 

[neddy man]

I didn't see that bit.

 

[M1lbie]

I seem to be one of the few people on here whose local hunt sends me a meet card and always messages me the day before to let me know when they are going to be near to my yard. I used to hunt before the ban and worked with hunters many years ago. I think the blatant ignoring of the law is going to finish hunting completely and hunts have caused this themselves with their arrogant behaviour, why do they need terrier men out with quads when they are not hunting foxes one wonders.

The hunt kennels is in the village where I live and I will be very sad when I can no longer hear the hounds singing but I think it is inevitable. Also what is going to happen to the hounds? Are they all to be shot? Also there are many people who sadly keep horses purely for hunting, what is going to happen to the horses many of whom are not likely to find another job.

Banning it completely will effect farriers, grooms, hunt staff, livery yards and a whole way of life to many, (the point to point will probably go as well).

Also round here there are several shoots and you would be unlikely to find a fox on their land. They are shot all year round, no closed season for vixens with cubs, to say nothing for the ones who are injured by a less accurate shot.

I don’t know what the answer to it all is, I am sure it cannot continue in its present form due to the stupidity of the hunts who are very obviously not trail hunting but I will be sorry when we no longer have the sound of hounds speaking and the horn in the distance, another country tradition disappearing into the history books.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Can someone explain to me the difference in the types please? I wouldn’t be knowledgeable in hunting

Drag hunting is hunting a human runner. It's been around way before this so-called trail hunting.
A lot of people think that drag and trail hunting are the same thing , but they aren't. Trail hunting is supposedly the legal form of old fox hunting,.where the fox hounds should follow a trail laid out for them. But in reality , they are just fox hunting.

 

[Sandstone1]

The horse owning demographic has changed hugely in recent years.
I've owned horses/ridden for over 50 years, was brought up on a farm with a mum who bred horses, and we now have a large livery yard, I also used to run a large local show so I have seen this at first hand.

The majority of owners are no longer Country people, they keep their horses like overgrown pets and I may sound harsh, but, compared to 40 or even 15 years ago the level of knowledge of the average horse owner is pitiful.
Sad, but I assure you it's true!

I do not disagree that horse owners have changed but this forum has a lot of country people, farmers and landowners, long term horse owners etc as well as newer horse owners. I just find it interesting that the results are as they are given the type of forum this is. The point I was trying to make is, if the results here are as they are what would they be in the general population?
I feel I know the answer to that!

 

[minesadouble]

I do not disagree that horse owners have changed but this forum has a lot of country people, farmers and landowners, long term horse owners etc as well as newer horse owners. I just find it interesting that the results are as they are given the type of forum this is. The point I was trying to make is, if the results here are as they are what would they be in the general population?
I feel I know the answer to that!

I think this forum probably now represents a decent cross section of the general public to be honest.
I don't think there is any reason to expect the average modern horse owner to be more likely to be pro-hunt than the man on the street.

Which is the point I was trying to make, (badly) in my original post.

 

[ycbm]

Can someone explain to me the difference in the types please? I wouldn’t be knowledgeable in hunting

Fox hunting - hunting fox on horseback with a pack of fox hounds. The hounds kill the fox if caught. It can also be dug out by terrier men if it’s escaped into an earth, and thrown to the hounds to kill.

Beagling - hunting hare on foot with beagles. The beagles kill the hare if caught.

Stag hunting - hunting deer on horseback with stag hounds. The stag is run until it stops and then shot. The Irish also hunt "the carted stag" where a stag is trailered out to where they want to hunt it, let loose and chased with staghounds and people on horseback. The stag is not usually killed in this case.

Trail hunting - hunting a fox based scent laid to mimic a fox trail on horseback with foxhounds.

Drag hunting - hunting a heavily and very recently laid artificial trail, laid either by a runner or a horse, on horseback with foxhounds

Bloodhounding, hunting the clean boot - hunting an actual person with no enhanced scent, on horseback following bloodhounds.

 

[Clodagh]

Drag hunting is hunting a human runner. It's been around way before this so-called trail hunting.
A lot of people think that drag and trail hunting are the same thing , but they aren't. Trail hunting is supposedly the legal form of old fox hunting,.where the fox hounds should follow a trail laid out for them. But in reality , they are just fox hunting.

I thought that drag was hunting a trail laid by someone, either running/on quad/ whatever and bloodhounds hunted the clean boot…. Ie a human runner just leaving footprints.

 

[TGM]

I thought that drag was hunting a trail laid by someone, either running/on quad/ whatever and bloodhounds hunted the clean boot…. Ie a human runner just leaving footprints.

You are correct Clodagh.

 

[webble]

Given the name of this forum and that I would think the members on here are very rural and traditional folk it doesnt bode well for hunting that there is a majority wanting it banned, the wider population will likely but even more likely in opposition

 

[Old school]

It is really interesting to read the posts of folks who do/don't support hunting, tied in with the thread re buying an inexpensive young horse/cost of horses and the reaction to CF dressage test. There is a very strong determination in social media to sanitise equestrianism.

There seems to be a large ‘calling out’ of anything offensive. But on the other hand there is very little focus on bringing education to people who are new and not so new to horses. Very few folks who are swamped with experience/knowledge want to share it with those who apparently know it all already and will challenge every bit of information shared. Bit of ramble, but equestrianism will be the preserve of the absolute elite very shortly. Much more quickly than people realise.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I mulled over this and ending up voting ‘clean boot’ hunting only.

I dithered over drag hunting, but when I remembered how a drag pack was happy to share kennels with the notorious and now banned Avon Vale hunt that decided it for me. That drag pack must have known what the ethos of the Avon Vale was, they only bailed when the Avon Vale footage went public.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I thought that drag was hunting a trail laid by someone, either running/on quad/ whatever and bloodhounds hunted the clean boot…. Ie a human runner just leaving footprints.

Drag hunting existed long before trail hunting (since the 1800s) . People use the terms trail and drag interchangeably but they aren't the same thing. They use fox hounds in drag hunting: the trail is laid in predetermined lines , and the scent used isn't animal based so the hounds rarely take an interest in wildlife.

In clean boot hunting they use blood hounds to chase a runner.

Whereas trail hunting is just a smokescreen for fox hunting.

https://www.league.org.uk/media/filer_public/d4/2e/d42ed760-6dca-4f8a-9797-da413fa96b96/drag_hunting_clean_boot_hunting_and_trail_hunting.pdf

 

[GrassChop]

Can someone explain to me the difference in the types please? I wouldn’t be knowledgeable in hunting

Was going to ask the same. I didn't know there were different types/hounds etc.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Was going to ask the same. I didn't know there were different types/hounds etetc

See my comment above yours

 

[SEL]

It is really interesting to read the posts of folks who do/don't support hunting, tied in with the thread re buying an inexpensive young horse/cost of horses and the reaction to CF dressage test. There is a very strong determination in social media to sanitise equestrianism.

There seems to be a large ‘calling out’ of anything offensive. But on the other hand there is very little focus on bringing education to people who are new and not so new to horses. Very few folks who are swamped with experience/knowledge want to share it with those who apparently know it all already and will challenge every bit of information shared. Bit of ramble, but equestrianism will be the preserve of the absolute elite very shortly. Much more quickly than people realise.

I'm fairly rural (would have said very rural a few years back but house building has gone through the roof round here). A lot of the anti hunt sentiment isn't coming from newcomers to the area but locals - some riders, some not - who a fed up of the inconvenience to their lives. The trashing of our few bridleways, the piles of dog poo and the lack of warning that they're in the area affects walkers and dog owners too. Is that sanitising equestrianism? I don't think so - I think it's just an expression of how fed up residents are with a small group of people not acting with common courtesy on public shared spaces.

I don't think "education" has got worse in recent years - there have always been people not keeping horses well - but social media and the speed at which information can be shared (good / bad / indifferent) means it's all out there for public consumption. The shortage of land in certain areas may make horse ownership the preserve of the elite but I'm struggling to see how that relates to comments on CF's dressage test or frustration with the behaviour of local hunts.

 

[dapple_grey]

I go out regularly with our local bloodhounding pack and it's great fun. I love that they are fully open, have nothing to hide and I get to enjoy the beautiful countryside at speed over a pre-determined line. My fun is also not hurting anything! I went Autumn hunting once last year with my local foxhound pack, on the understanding that they were following a trail legally. I was bemused when we all gathered around a large covert and everyone started banging their sticks against their saddles to make a lot of noise. I didn't see anything, however a hound trotted past me with blood all over it's mouth. It left me with a very uncomfortable feeling and I will be sticking to bloodhounds in future.

 

[ycbm]

I go out regularly with our local bloodhounding pack and it's great fun. I love that they are fully open, have nothing to hide and I get to enjoy the beautiful countryside at speed over a pre-determined line. My fun is also not hurting anything! I went Autumn hunting once last year with my local foxhound pack, on the understanding that they were following a trail legally. I was bemused when we all gathered around a large covert and everyone started banging their sticks against their saddles to make a lot of noise. I didn't see anything, however a hound trotted past me with blood all over it's mouth. It left me with a very uncomfortable feeling and I will be sticking to bloodhounds in future.

Good grief. You checked they were hunting trails and they openly took you cubbing? What a shame you couldn't have got some video of that.
.

 

[Sandstone1]

Given the name of this forum and that I would think the members on here are very rural and traditional folk it doesnt bode well for hunting that there is a majority wanting it banned, the wider population will likely but even more likely in opposition

Yes, thats exactly the point I was making.